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Old 01-03-2022, 04:52 PM   #101
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I would add that understanding the political, legal, cultural and economic situation in the boat builder's country is very important.

Later,
Dan
I would agree with that as we deal often with changing climates in that regard. Our previous Italian built boats were in inventory sitting in Fort Lauderdale and that was easy. However, the most recent was an extended build and we actually set up an Italian company to contract and used an Italian attorney. Sounds like a bit much, but think back to the Sunseeker buyers who purchased from Rick Obey who had a dispute with Sunseeker and never, in their judgement, paid them for the boat. Only reason Kakawi had a simpler task collecting from Marlow was that the entanglement of companies was so confusing that even Marlow didn't know, so technically wrote the order in a non existing entity. Couldn't then asset what entity they wanted it in.

In many cases the company selling to you is not the builder. A lot of boat building in the UK and they were suddenly hit with the challenge of figuring out Brexit.

As critical as I am of Marine Max, one strength in buying from them and now from OneWater Yacht Group as well is that both are publicly traded companies and likely stronger than the builder. OneWater now handles Sunseeker, Riviera, Absolute, Prestige, Belize and Chris Craft. Marine Max handles Azimut, Ocean Alexander, Galeon, Sea Ray, Aquila, Aviara, Harris, and Boston Whaler.
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Old 08-04-2022, 04:08 AM   #102
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I see Nautistyles on YouTube have ordered a Bering 77 huge upgrade for them from the Bayliner Carver 444 knock off, they seem to know there way around a boat build and the industry, I find it interesting they choose Bering for there new build, to be honest I am seriously contemplating a new build having correspondence with both Fleming, Nordahvn and Bering and I am seriously focused on the Bering 77 hybrid option at the moment and I am off to Turkey later this month to finalise a short list of 130 questions I have compiled and have full confidence in Bering answering my questions in person thus far from the standard of information being followed thus far on the road to a sale, both Fleming and Nordahvn I found the sales teams to be disappointing to say the least ….Bering seems to be winning in all facets atm on my new build journey and hope to seal a deal over the next month ��
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Old 08-04-2022, 01:09 PM   #103
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I see Nautistyles on YouTube have ordered a Bering 77 huge upgrade for them from the Bayliner Carver 444 knock off, they seem to know there way around a boat build and the industry, I find it interesting they choose Bering for there new build, to be honest I am seriously contemplating a new build having correspondence with both Fleming, Nordahvn and Bering and I am seriously focused on the Bering 77 hybrid option at the moment and I am off to Turkey later this month to finalise a short list of 130 questions I have compiled and have full confidence in Bering answering my questions in person thus far from the standard of information being followed thus far on the road to a sale, both Fleming and Nordahvn I found the sales teams to be disappointing to say the least Ö.Bering seems to be winning in all facets atm on my new build journey and hope to seal a deal over the next month ��
I am a big fan of Bering (or should I say steel) and have seen all the Bering reviews on Nautistyles-very well done. I love all the well thought out details on the Bering. Curious about the consideration of the Fleming. No where near the same class as the Bering, or Nordhavn. I hope you keep posting on your progress and good luck.
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Old 08-04-2022, 06:30 PM   #104
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I am a big fan of Bering (or should I say steel) and have seen all the Bering reviews on Nautistyles-very well done. I love all the well thought out details on the Bering. Curious about the consideration of the Fleming. No where near the same class as the Bering, or Nordhavn. I hope you keep posting on your progress and good luck.
Hi Mac.
It seems we share a opinion in the steel elk, imo there simply is no other Ö. I have been in the seafood industry my whole life now at the tail end of the gig and ready to just cruise with a relative young family on extended journeys around the Pacific and eventually beyond and money is a issue as I want value but also want whatís needed without the what seems the $1.5m over allowance on the N69 and Fleming 65 , Iíve been lucky enough to be invited on Veronica when she was at GCCM and I must admit makes a Fleming and Nordahvn look like a over priced after thought in comparison on the surface, and from talking to the crew on Veronica she is a very very capable vessel in big seas, We have a N69 at Manly itís a lovely boat and was firm on my new boat list but value for money wise PAE have priced them self out of the market there simply not worth what they are currently charging for a Chinese built fibreglass boat.
It sure is a interesting process a new boat build having done it many times with commercial vessels and with a rec boat it just ramps up the complexityís and comfort level, luxuries, etc etc etc etc so it will be a interesting trip to Bering headquarters and have a very close look under the covers of the build line as I have been promised, and we are chartering a Numarine 22XP whilst there so that will tell a story in it self but I do prefer atm a aluminium superstructure so Bering is also winning there,.
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Old 09-09-2022, 09:20 AM   #105
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Hi Mac.
It seems we share a opinion in the steel elk, imo there simply is no other …. I have been in the seafood industry my whole life now at the tail end of the gig and ready to just cruise with a relative young family on extended journeys around the Pacific and eventually beyond and money is a issue as I want value but also want what’s needed without the what seems the $1.5m over allowance on the N69 and Fleming 65 , I’ve been lucky enough to be invited on Veronica when she was at GCCM and I must admit makes a Fleming and Nordahvn look like a over priced after thought in comparison on the surface, and from talking to the crew on Veronica she is a very very capable vessel in big seas, We have a N69 at Manly it’s a lovely boat and was firm on my new boat list but value for money wise PAE have priced them self out of the market there simply not worth what they are currently charging for a Chinese built fibreglass boat.
It sure is a interesting process a new boat build having done it many times with commercial vessels and with a rec boat it just ramps up the complexity’s and comfort level, luxuries, etc etc etc etc so it will be a interesting trip to Bering headquarters and have a very close look under the covers of the build line as I have been promised, and we are chartering a Numarine 22XP whilst there so that will tell a story in it self but I do prefer atm a aluminium superstructure so Bering is also winning there,.
Yikes. You and my son! He saw the Bering video on YouTube and was saying how he much he preferred it to the Fleming 65 video - he hadn’t seen either in person. It did look really nice I admit. (Of course he also loved the Med boats with sides that came out and seemed to be good on just a lake, unlike the Bering.)

Silly of me though to prefer these over priced after thoughts” Fleming. For coastal and Nordhavn for blue water boats, but they do look good and apparently function so well. Fleming 65 would be my pick for coastal and if I was to do blue water the Nordhavn 68 would be my pick. (Both with great service networks )

Hopefully Bering works out for everyone and the after sale service and resale value is top notice.
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Old 09-09-2022, 02:22 PM   #106
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Yikes. You and my son! He saw the Bering video on YouTube and was saying how he much he preferred it to the Fleming 65 video - he hadnít seen either in person. It did look really nice I admit. (Of course he also loved the Med boats with sides that came out and seemed to be good on just a lake, unlike the Bering.)

Silly of me though to prefer these over priced after thoughtsĒ Fleming. For coastal and Nordhavn for blue water boats, but they do look good and apparently function so well. Fleming 65 would be my pick for coastal and if I was to do blue water the Nordhavn 68 would be my pick. (Both with great service networks )

Hopefully Bering works out for everyone and the after sale service and resale value is top notice.
I think your missing a major point of the Bering. It's steel. Weather your coastal cruising, or blue water cruising, I would prefer to hit a log with a steel hull vs fiberglass. Not just for surviving, but ease of repair anywhere in the world. Also, I don't ever want to become grounded, but if I do, there is no comparison to sitting on a rock with steel vs fiberglass. These are all real possibilities here in the PNW and the main reason I chose steel. I wonder how many people consider worst case scenarios when choosing a boat? Flemings are beautiful. Nordhavns are beautifully rugged. Steel is in a class by itself. Sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes bad. It's all about the build.
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Old 09-09-2022, 03:19 PM   #107
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I think your missing a major point of the Bering. It's steel. Weather your coastal cruising, or blue water cruising, I would prefer to hit a log with a steel hull vs fiberglass. Not just for surviving, but ease of repair anywhere in the world. Also, I don't ever want to become grounded, but if I do, there is no comparison to sitting on a rock with steel vs fiberglass. These are all real possibilities here in the PNW and the main reason I chose steel. I wonder how many people consider worst case scenarios when choosing a boat? Flemings are beautiful. Nordhavns are beautifully rugged. Steel is in a class by itself. Sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes bad. It's all about the build.


That wasn’t his point of steel versus sold hull fiberglass though. Worthy debate as a factor to be considered.

What he said s that the Bering “ makes a Fleming and Nordahvn look like a over priced after thought .”

After thought? That’s just ridiculous.

I don’t know of any Flemings or Nordhavn’s that sunk by hitting one. I feel good about the stainless steel shoe that runs down the Fleming keel.

And then I consider all the miles these two brands have travelled, with no collision losses, and all the engineering and redundancies - probabilistically more important to me than a steel hull from a newer builder who doesn’t have nearly the years or numbers of hulls cruising the world.

That’s what I’m reacting to.
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Old 09-09-2022, 04:41 PM   #108
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Would note many Al boats are light ice and some even ice class. Big advantage of both Al and Fe is they stretch not puncture or shatter as easily as grp or carbon. Pretty much any one with a TIG and a plasma cutter can patch Al or with a stick or MiG for Fe. At least well enough to get you somewhere where a proper job could be done. Agree Fe is way stronger than Al but we’re talking recreational boating
Would point out as long as you stay away from cored hulls or exotics and stick with solid grp you’d be hard put to find a yard in just about anyplace in the world that couldn’t fix your boat. Think there’s major advantages to Fe and Al but ease of finding a place to repair isn’t a significant one except in very unusual circumstances. Think restoration of the coatings for Fe might be more difficult in some places.
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Old 09-09-2022, 04:58 PM   #109
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Debating steel versus fiberglass is a hopeless cause. It's like belonging to the high school debate team - no one ever wins - everyone just shouts out their own opinion.

Steel boats, large and small, have sunk at sea or due to collisions or grounding. Fiberglass boats with 2-1/2" thick bottoms have sunk upon hitting rocks (remember Zopilote). Of the thousands of small boats which have circumnavigated the earth, the majority either had wood or fiberglass hulls (probably 1/2" thick for an average 34 foot sailboat).
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Old 09-09-2022, 05:03 PM   #110
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I did not interpret the "After thought" comment correctly due to the grammatical errors. Your point of Nordhavns and Flemings having a proven history is spot on and relates to the last point I made-It's all about the build.
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Old 09-09-2022, 05:40 PM   #111
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Debating steel versus fiberglass is a hopeless cause. It's like belonging to the high school debate team - no one ever wins - everyone just shouts out their own opinion.

Steel boats, large and small, have sunk at sea or due to collisions or grounding. Fiberglass boats with 2-1/2" thick bottoms have sunk upon hitting rocks (remember Zopilote). Of the thousands of small boats which have circumnavigated the earth, the majority either had wood or fiberglass hulls (probably 1/2" thick for an average 34 foot sailboat).
The OP started this thread by mentioning they were filling a niche in boating i.e. steel boats in a smaller size for recreational boating. I think the "why" is important. Why is Bering building steel boats? This question naturally leads to, "what are the advantages of steel" not "why steel is better then fiberglass".
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Old 09-10-2022, 12:54 AM   #112
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Well it’s nearly a $7m Au choice I’m making and it will be my last boat I buy, so to say I am making the decision carefully is a understatement to say the least, but I must say after all the yard tours and design principles behind Bering along with the overnights we had in Turkey in the 75 Bering has firmed as the number one choice thus far for myself, my wife and family, I think it comes down to the ease of customisation in a Bering and the yard’s willingness to accomodate a very demanding build, Fleming forget about it if you want anything out of the ordinary unless you want to spend millions accomplishing it and with my experience I would have to question the outcomes Fleming would produce by the way they react to questions that should be easily answered by a builder of Flemings caliber, Nordahvn I’ve moved on tbh as much as I always loved the brand they simply are not worth what they are charging for them currently and people buying new Nordahvn from this decade will get stuck hard on resale imo, as I know from my experience with PAE they will have to curb there pricing soon because they must be loosening possibly 100s of millions in sakes due to new build pricing and I think as the new boat build market corrects so will PAE big time ……. We still haven’t finalised a build with Bering yet they just need to come to the party on some upgrade costings which they will I’m sure but overall it’s been a good experience with them so far and the build quality under the sheets is impeccable from what I have seen ,material quality in general and coatings and treatment wise I have never seen such detail and I have built a lot of commercial boats in my time with builders.
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Old 09-10-2022, 07:15 AM   #113
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IF I were 20 years younger, I would go with Au. Once the hull is constructed and machinery installed, you can build the interior to you liking. I would use lots of interior teak or perhaps mahogany but that just my liking.

I would also go with hyd bow and stern thruster, a bit over-sized, and a hyd anchor windless, hyd active stabilizers.
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Old 09-10-2022, 08:19 AM   #114
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To my mind the greatest benefit of metal (any metal) is flexibility.both in design but more importantly in material properties. Metals are ductile, elastic, flexible and ortho in strength. They are equally as strong in any direction unlike any laminate be it wood, grp, or carbon. With the other properties they can be loaded and unloaded while retaining near their original strength. They are much more likely to return to original conformation after distortion. Fe is more elastic than a rubber band. (Using the engineers definition).
I know some say grp has a infinite service life. But have seen grp hulls fail with shock loads not only from collision but more commonly from repetitive loading. I understand some say this only occurs in poorly built boats where either adhesives fail in pan built or bulkheads are just tabbed in not fully glassed in or like poor construction. But have seen this in “quality” boats.
My very strong preference for stick built is based on several factors. I don’t like dependence on adhesives. Yes they are great if done correctly but as the purchaser you have no idea if that’s the case. Pans limit access to spaces below the pan. Beyond making servicing difficult it makes accessing those spaces very difficult. Metal and some grp is stick built.
On every grp boat I’ve owned at some point you go through a cycle of rebedding. Beyond the hassle and expense sometimes it’s very difficult and unless careful can be destructive. Metal has fewer needs and those are much easier to execute.
It’s said metal rusts or corrodes from the inside. However with current understanding of coatings, lumber holes and ventilation, advances in insulation this concern is minimal at this point. Similarly ultrasonic anti fouling is more effective. In terms of maintenance think there’s little difference. Especially with bare Al.
So the choice is Fe with its greater strength and abrasion resistance.but at the expense of weight. Or Al with lighter weight but still better physical properties than classic grp but with a increased corrosion concern. Or grp both heavier than Al and less abrasion resistance than Fe and even Al. Cored grp or aramid have their problems as well. Aramid tends to “float” on layup so is difficult to use. With cores delamination is always in the back of my mind and repair is more difficult. Once overstressed strength is virtually gone.
Think Mako is spot on. Pick your poison. All have deficiencies and strengths. Believe Americans aversion to metal and wood/epoxy is due to marketing not reality. Think for the requirements of recreational cruising personally would pick Al for anything below 80’ and Fe above. With stick built solid grp a very close second to either. Say this as when you increase size hull(and framing) becomes a progressively smaller %age of total displacement.
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