ZF tranny fluid change and impeller changes

[mml2112]

I am just waiting on the results of the fluid analysis for the yanmar 380 horsepower and Kohler 9 kW generator and transmission.

However if I buy the boat I am going to want to change the transmission fluid since it has 500 hours on it, and both impellers.

I have searched for videos and documentation on this and haven't found any. There may be owners manuals on the boat when I buy it. Any tips?

 

[ranger58sb]

We had an Oil X-Changer on our boat with ZF gears, but the basic deal is pretty simple. Remove old, replace with new.

Our specific ZF gears also had a magnetic "filter" in it. Remove, clean, replace. Easy... although IIRC that was the one that need a 36mm socket.

You can probably find your specific manual on line, or the ZF folks (in Ft Lauderdale, I think) can help.

-Chris

 

[rgano]

Unless you have proof of a recent change or other proof of good condition, for a used boat I would change:

Batteries
ALL vee belts
ALL lube oil
tranny oil
ALL fuel filters
Air filters
ALL cooling circuit hoses (had one blow on my Yanmar a few years after I bought it)
ALL cooling pump impellers

The engine is worth 30-40K and the gen another 10-12K. Don't risk anything.

 

[Bacchus]

M
Welcome aboard TF. Lots of experienced & satisfied MS owners ( past & current) here so generally good info available.
Steve Cyr's website... https://www.scyr.org/stellablue/ is a great resource for MS 400 owners and in fact any late model year MS. You may also find some useful info / links on my Bacchus website (linked is signature) and scan through the TF Library as I have uploaded several manuals there that may be of use.

When I changed my fluid / filter I did it the hard way... shallow pan under the tranny... as it was not connected to my X-Chgr Pump. The pan approach works but it slow as capacity is small so need to replace plug & drank pan often. It's doable but just takes time & patience. If you don't have / can't find the ZF manual I think I have it electronically but currently on the road in our land Yacht. If you are interested and want me to look send me a PM this wkend/next week as a reminder and I'll search my files. I will probably connect my pump next time around. You can also use an external pump via tube into the filter housing to get most of the fluid and pan only for the final frain.

For Kohler impeller change I strongly recommend removing the pump for the change. Removing the old impeller and inserting the new with a lose key is next to impossible in place and don't attempt prying the impeller out as you risk damaging the housing lip / orange groove.

For Yan 6LYA removal of impeller is also tricky but the proper puller works rather well. I've done it myself and when my yard / shop does it for me they borrow my puller as none of theirs will fit in there. I think I have info & photos of the puller on home computer and can provide that as well. I believe it's a Johnson puller meant for their pumps / impellers. It does require later style impellers with the inner core threaded. I can provide the correct part # if you need that as well.

Others didn't mention engine, tranny, gen pencil anodes but that's another I'd put on the immediate PM list. I'm in fresh water, as I'm guessing you are as well. If the boat was FW previously all the better but if not they all need to be changed. I have a list of all of them in aluminum which is the way I've gone. When I switched mine out I couldn't find all the pencils in Mag and decided to go allfrail.
Good luck w your MS

 

[rgano]

Like Don's boat, my XChangR oil pump-out is not connected to the sump of my ZF63 tranny because there is no room to get to the sump drain. My XChangR does however have a spare port, and I have connected a clear vinyl hose to it which will fit down the tranny oil filler hole clear to the bottom of the tranny case. I get virtually all the oil out.

 

[Shrew]

Unless you have proof of a recent change or other proof of good condition, for a used boat I would change:

Batteries
ALL vee belts
ALL lube oil
tranny oil
ALL fuel filters
Air filters
ALL cooling circuit hoses (had one blow on my Yanmar a few years after I bought it)
ALL cooling pump impellers

The engine is worth 30-40K and the gen another 10-12K. Don't risk anything.

+2 (Don't forget Oil Filters and zincs )

I would go a little further. It's the serviceable items that go multiple seasons that are usually neglected (overlooked) the most. Like the things that only need servicing every 5 or 10 years. In smaller gas engines that was things like manifolds and risers or bellows.

I'd consider changing the shaft seal(s), cutlass bearing(s).

I'd have turbo, oil cooler and exhaust elbow, and heat exchanger inspected.

Engine surveys check seals, oil, temp, RPM, and general function. Nothing is disassembled, inspected, or serviced.

I approach it with the assumption that, if I didn't do it, it didn't get done.

 

[rgano]

+2 (Don't forget Oil Filters and zincs )

I would go a little further. It's the serviceable items that go multiple seasons that are usually neglected (overlooked) the most. Like the things that only need servicing every 5 or 10 years. In smaller gas engines that was things like manifolds and risers or bellows.

I'd consider changing the shaft seal(s), cutlass bearing(s).

I'd have turbo, oil cooler and exhaust elbow, and heat exchanger inspected.

Engine surveys check seals, oil, temp, RPM, and general function. Nothing is disassembled, inspected, or serviced.

I approach it with the assumption that, if I didn't do it, it didn't get done.

Quite right! I was approaching this question more from the point of a delivery to new home port thinking the engine survey already done.

 

[Bacchus]

Like Don's boat, my XChangR oil pump-out is not connected to the sump of my ZF63 tranny because there is no room to get to the sump drain. My XChangR does however have a spare port, and I have connected a clear vinyl hose to it which will fit down the tranny oil filler hole clear to the bottom of the tranny case. I get virtually all the oil out.

Rich mine the same and I've considered doing the same. My quandary is once empty why not add the hose barb and connect the hose... EZPZ
I did ask ZF and they tell me the plug is NPT... I believe 1/2" if memory serves me correct.

 

[rgano]

Rich mine the same and I've considered doing the same. My quandary is once empty why not add the hose barb and connect the hose... EZPZ
I did ask ZF and they tell me the plug is NPT... I believe 1/2" if memory serves me correct.

No can do here. The plug almost touches a frame.

 

[Bacchus]

No can do here. The plug almost touches a frame.

Understand... every boat is different and has their limitations and trade offs.

 

[Bacchus]

Here is some info on Johnson puller, impeller #s etc.
Ill attach selected pages from the Johnson Pump catalog that apply
Pics of the puller and ring compressor I found helpful installing the new impeller

Notes:
The puller comes with one thru bolt that is too short to fully pull the impeller but longer (fully threaded metric) bolts are available from good hardware suppliers. It does require the "BT" (threaded) version of the impeller hub

The ring compressor comes in a variety of sizes so just be sure to select on that covers the range needed for the impeller - and be sure to lube the ID / impeller to allow slipping it into the housing

 

[Comodave]

On our last boat I had a copper tube that I could insert to the bottom of the transmission and suck out the oil. Worked well and I could change the oil in about 10 minutes.

 

[Southern Boater]

Here is some info on Johnson puller, impeller #s etc.
Ill attach selected pages from the Johnson Pump catalog that apply
Pics of the puller and ring compressor I found helpful installing the new impeller

Notes:
The puller comes with one thru bolt that is too short to fully pull the impeller but longer (fully threaded metric) bolts are available from good hardware suppliers. It does require the "BT" (threaded) version of the impeller hub

The ring compressor comes in a variety of sizes so just be sure to select on that covers the range needed for the impeller - and be sure to lube the ID / impeller to allow slipping it into the housing

This is very useful info B, thanks for posting this

 

[porman]

Bacchus, I've had a piston ring compressor like that in my toolbox for 40 years and never thought to use it on the impeller. Learn something new every day.

 

[Bacchus]

Bacchus, I've had a piston ring compressor like that in my toolbox for 40 years and never thought to use it on the impeller. Learn something new every day.

Like many tips ive picked up over the years i don't recall who provided the compressor one but I certainlt can't clain origination. Many prefer zip ties but if availablw the compressor seems ideal.
Its the sharing and learning here on TF that is the key value.
Glad it was helpful / of interest.
I also found it interesting that my yard borrows my puller for impellwr changes.

 

[Comodave]

Impellertool.com make a very nice tool for compressing the fins during insertion.

 

[ranger58sb]

Impellertool.com make a very nice tool for compressing the fins during insertion.

The one we had worked like magic!

-Chris

 

[Bacchus]

Impellertool.com make a very nice tool for compressing the fins during insertion.

Dave
They look pretty slick but a dedicated tool need for a small range of sizes.
Just curious and the website doesn't list models & prices.
What's the ballpark $ & size for the one you have?

An adjustable 4" ring compressor from HbrFrt is only $10
May not do a much wider size range but for the price hard to beat.

 

[Flatswing]

We had an Oil X-Changer on our boat with ZF gears, but the basic deal is pretty simple. Remove old, replace with new.

Our specific ZF gears also had a magnetic "filter" in it. Remove, clean, replace. Easy... although IIRC that was the one that need a 36mm socket.

You can probably find your specific manual on line, or the ZF folks (in Ft Lauderdale, I think) can help.

-Chris

Definitely get the correct socket - preferably 6 point. My ZF plugs and pump filters are aluminum/alloy and needed a bar extension. Didn’t want to round those off

 

[Comodave]

Dave
They look pretty slick but a dedicated tool need for a small range of sizes.
Just curious and the website doesn't list models & prices.
What's the ballpark $ & size for the one you have?

An adjustable 4" ring compressor from HbrFrt is only $10
May not do a much wider size range but for the price hard to beat.

I don’t recall since I bought it about 8 or 10 years ago. I liked it because in tight areas it worked very very well. Compared to paying someone $100 per hour the price was very cheap.