Solar Q

[Bay Retriever]

Thinking of adding a simple 100 watt solar panel to my 2004 Mainship 400 to accomplish the following:
1) Trickle charge batteries when on the hard or anchoring out.
2) run stand-alone (from lowes) dehumidifier when on the hard/mooring
3) run refrigerator same as above.

Wondering what other have done and where the wires have been placed to snake down into the main engine room to get to the batteries.

T MACDONNELL

 

[DavidM]

Those three loads: trickle charging, dehumidifier and fridge are way too much for a 100 watt panel. The only one that is possible with 100 watts is trickle charging.

Here are some rough numbers:

Fridge- a minimum of 50 amp hours daily, more for a residential type.

Dehumidifier- about the same, maybe more. See https://ecocostsavings.com/dehumidifier-wattage-most-efficient/ I played around with this tiny 1 pint DC Peltier effect humidifier for my boat and it draws 2.8 amps or 67 amp hours daily- https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J9JV3V5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And FWIW 1 pint a day didn't make a dent in the humidity of the little cabin in the boat in my Avatar to the left.

A 100 watt panel in a mid-Atlantic location will produce about 25-30 Ah each day in the summer and 10-15 Ah in the winter.

So you aren't even close.

David

 

[mvweebles]

If you have not already browsed a current thread on overnight consumption, it might be helpful.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/amp-hours-used-overnight-anchor-65242.html#post1122300

Companion consideration is battery capacity and type (AGM, LFP, FLA); and alternator capacity (stock engine alternators are usually 75A-90A). Also need to define what you mean by mooring/anchoring in terms of how long you would be off-grid. If "Mooring" means a permanent off-grid mooring, that will mean you need a bigger system to endure cloudy days. If your time horizon is a couple days between recharging the batteries via shore-power, generator, or alternator, that is a more relaxed use-case. The above referenced thread will give some idea of what others are doing for battery capacity.

David's post previous to this is about right - you have defined about 125-150 AH of usage in a 24-hour day (though when you add-in all the other loads of having a couple aboard, you're probably well over 250AH/24-hrs). That will require at least 400W of solar panel, and a >300AH (12V AGM/FLA) battery bank to get you through the night with some buffer. Solar panels are relatively inexpensive these days, so real estate to place them is the limiting factor. But there is a point where adding more solar isn't useful unless you add battery storage.

I hope this helps. If you fill-in some of the blanks, you'll get a ton of information. For example, DavidM is very knowledgeable on this subject and is quite generous with it.

Peter

 

[DavidM]

As Peter notes above, you need to define the parameters of what you want to accomplish before worrying about wiring runs. 200+ Ahs daily is bunch to try to make with solar panels, more than 400 watts for sure.

I always suggest measuring real usage before doing anything and that means installing a shunt based battery monitor. These have a shunt that hooks to the main negative lead to your battery and provides a micro/mili volt signal to the display that is used to calculate amps, amp hours used since last fully charged, SOC pct, etc. Here are three in decending price and features: Victron, Renogy, QWork. Amazon has them all.

Then once you know your amp hour usage pattern by spending a few days away from then you can decide how many amp hours of batteries and watts of panels you need to balance it all out.

David

 

[Blue Tortuga]

Besides the solar cell capacity question the only logical place to run wires from flybridge to engine room is the existing wire chase stb side under flybridge settee cushion that run to engine room and exits on top of stb fuel tank. The ac plenum box stb side of galley wall by sliding door is part of this chase also.
I can tell you from running engine room cameras and new depth transducers (a lot of wires) it’s not real easy. You need a electrician fish tape and a lot of patience. I even had a cell phone enabled remote camera on a long flexible extension that I used a few times to find the blockages. Every wire seems to be in that chase.

 

[Dougcole]

Besides the solar cell capacity question the only logical place to run wires from flybridge to engine room is the existing wire chase stb side under flybridge settee cushion that run to engine room and exits on top of stb fuel tank. The ac plenum box stb side of galley wall by sliding door is part of this chase also.
I can tell you from running engine room cameras and new depth transducers (a lot of wires) it’s not real easy. You need a electrician fish tape and a lot of patience. I even had a cell phone enabled remote camera on a long flexible extension that I used a few times to find the blockages. Every wire seems to be in that chase.

Yep.


It's insane how much wire Mainship stuffed in that rigging tube. I recently had better luck running wires next to the rigging tube. I got access to the plenum box by removing the AC vent, that helped a lot. Once I got the wire down into the area below the lower helm it was pretty easy to run it back into the ER.


I've thought of adding solar panels on the rail around the aft flybridge deck as well. Another challenge will be running the wires inside the railings. You could zip tie the wires to the railing, but that doesn't look very good.

 

[Cold Duck]

On another post I commented about drilling an access hole in the STBD flybridge seat to snake wires from flybridge to salon. I could get a wire pull thru the rigging tube but wires are so cris-crossed over there was no way to pull another cable in there. So I used the cable pull and went outside the tube. Easy to run from flybridge hole to my seat hole then down to the salon. These are pictures of the access hole. Also, I use 100wt solar panels simply because I already had them. I only plan that they will run the stereo and a few comm radios during the day and these are sunny summer days only. Run generator 2 hours am and 2 hours pm which covers our "at anchor" electrical requirements. I wouldn't go out and buy the solar panels specifically for your tasks, you will be disappointed.

 

[Bay Retriever]

On another post I commented about drilling an access hole in the STBD flybridge seat to snake wires from flybridge to salon. I could get a wire pull thru the rigging tube but wires are so cris-crossed over there was no way to pull another cable in there. So I used the cable pull and went outside the tube. Easy to run from flybridge hole to my seat hole then down to the salon. These are pictures of the access hole. Also, I use 100wt solar panels simply because I already had them. I only plan that they will run the stereo and a few comm radios during the day and these are sunny summer days only. Run generator 2 hours am and 2 hours pm which covers our "at anchor" electrical requirements. I wouldn't go out and buy the solar panels specifically for your tasks, you will be disappointed.

Still planning to add a solar panel of some type to mainly keep batteries charged. My 2004 MA 400 has been on the hard since May for repairs. The Yard has occasionally allowed me to charge up my batteries with their 50 amp chord. So I’d like suggestions to purchase and set up a trickle charger.

 

[Cold Duck]

By all means if you are talking trinkle charge it will work. But remember, winter will cut your solar output at least in half. I would not just plug and leave. If the batteries get down the trinkle might not return them to up. Think about taking a little Honda 2000 generator or something and plug in to your boat charger, run for a few hours every month or so. Might be better for your batteries.

 

[JFisher]

I have a Mainship Pilot 34, and have installed a solar power system to do just what you want to do. I have two 175w flexible solar panels reinforced by aluminum brackets that are mounted on a custom stainless tubing frame above my soft top. One panel is connected to a 20amp MPPT charge controller mounted in the engine room that serves the single 4D battery that is both my starter and house battery. When at anchor I can run the built in refrigerator, use the vaccuflush head, and fresh water pump all day with no worries. The second panel is connected to a separate 20amp MPPT charge controller that charges a 280amp LiFePo4 battery connected to a 2000 watt inverter. It supplies all of the AC power I need for fans, a dehumidifier, TV, blender, and a portable Dometic refrigerator/freezer that we use to make ice and to store frozen foods. See my YouTube channel Jim Fisher DIY Portable Solar Power https://www.youtube.com/c/JimFisherDIYPortableSolarPower for a little history on my foray into solar power on my boats. I also have a 2000w Honda generator for backup.

 

[Dougcole]

I have a Mainship Pilot 34, and have installed a solar power system to do just what you want to do. I have two 175w flexible solar panels reinforced by aluminum brackets that are mounted on a custom stainless tubing frame above my soft top. One panel is connected to a 20amp MPPT charge controller mounted in the engine room that serves the single 4D battery that is both my starter and house battery. When at anchor I can run the built in refrigerator, use the vaccuflush head, and fresh water pump all day with no worries. The second panel is connected to a separate 20amp MPPT charge controller that charges a 280amp LiFePo4 battery connected to a 2000 watt inverter. It supplies all of the AC power I need for fans, a dehumidifier, TV, blender, and a portable Dometic refrigerator/freezer that we use to make ice and to store frozen foods. See my YouTube channel Jim Fisher DIY Portable Solar Power https://www.youtube.com/c/JimFisherDIYPortableSolarPower for a little history on my foray into solar power on my boats. I also have a 2000w Honda generator for backup.

Interesting and good looking install. What went into your decision to put in an arch rather than attaching the soft panels directly to the bimini?


Thanks.

 

[JFisher]

Doug- follow to this link for a full explanation from a different thread on TF


https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=957923&postcount=29


JIm

 

[BB-marine]

I installed solar panels last summer. The goal was to be able to stay anchored more as we are doing the Great Loop. I spent some time researching different controllers, solar panels, solar panel configurations and installations. With this came researching batteries, battery chemistry and charging profile's. WE have a 2002 34 pilot, twin engine, fully enclosed pilot house. This gave me plenty of room for solar panels. After researching components needed and batteries. This is what I installed:

House battery bank/starboard engine = (4) flooded lead acid group 31 105 AH DP East Penn batteries. This battery bank is charged three ways. Under way with engine, (55 amp standard Yanmar Alternator, starboard engine) + solar panels. Shore power, 30 amp 3 output battery charger + solar panels. At anchor, solar panels

Thruster battery bank= 4D flooded lead acid 180 AH DP East Penn Battery. This battery can be charged 3 ways. Under way with port engine 55 amp standard alternator. This is done by using a Blue Sea ACR. This isolates the Port engine battery bank from the thruster battery bank when a high amp load is used or the port engine is not running. Shore power, 30 amp 3 output battery charger. At anchor solar panels. ( I installed a battery combine switch that connects the house battery bank to the thruster battery bank. This switch is turned on when we are at anchor. The house bank 420 AH + thruster 180 AH batteries give a combined battery capacity of 600 AH , 300 AH usable at 50% discharge. The solar panel now is charging both banks.

Port engine battery bank= (2) group 31 maintenance free 900 CCA batteries. This battery bank can be charged two ways. Under way with Port engine alternator. Shore power 30 amp 3 output charger. ( If anchored and the Thruster battery reaches the Blue Sea specified threshold of 13.6 Volts the ACR will combine the Thruster bank to the Port engine battery bank and now it is charging.

Solar panels= (3) 200 watt Rich Solar 12V Monocrystalline panels wired in series with 10 gauge marine wire. The panels are wired to a double pole 15 amp breaker in a sealed box. From the breaker panel the wiring goes to a 100V/50amp Victron solar controller that is programed for charging flooded lead acid batteries. The wiring on the output side of the controller goes to a 50 amp breaker then to the house battery bank.

Inverter= 3000 watt Kisea pure sine wave inverter wired to the main 120V breaker panel. The output from the inverter to the panel is controlled by a double pole breaker that can only be turned on when the shore power double pole breaker is turned off. This inverter will run every thing on the boat if power management is used. We can use the electric stove top, hot water heater, marine air, outlets, coffee maker...... We are very conservative when using these items when at anchor and at night when there is no charge resource available.

Battery wiring cables. All were upgraded to 4/0

House bank and starboard engine battery powers, starboard engine start, all navigation equipment, all helm power, all house 12 volt panel users, trim tabs and the inverter.

Thruster bank battery powers, Thruster, windlass, 12volt, 20 amp panel with 12 volt receptacles, powering a portable freezer, phone and tablet charger, C-pap. These receptacles are installed in the forward stateroom.

Port engine battery bank powers, port engine start, Port engine to starboard engine emergency parallel start solenoid, all bilge pumps and the shower sump.

Victron battery monitor is installed to monitor the house battery bank and thruster battery bank when combined to the house bank. This monitor is set up to alarm when the batteries reach a 50% discharge. Both the Victron battery monitor and viltron solar controller can be monitored and controlled with my iPad.

Solar panel and battery performance when at anchor. The 600 watt capacity during summer months with longer days is more than enough capacity to charge the batteries to 100% each day and maintain all 12volt users (water pump, head, lights, electronics, refrigerator, freezer, conservative use of the inverter Microwave, coffee maker, .....) We stayed in an anchorage last September for 5 days and by 2:00 pm each day all battery banks were at 100% charge and the solar floated the batteries the rest of the day and maintained power for all 12Volt users.

We are now in Florida and it is December. Short days and longer times with out solar output. The 600 watt is marginal at best. We stayed anchored for 3 days on the third day at anchor when the solar output was done for the day 4:00 Pm the battery banks were at 95% charge the solar maintained all users but was unable to get the banks to full charge.

The 600 watt capacity I have never seen out of the controller the most I have seen is 480 watts. This doesn't mean the capacity is not there. The viltron controller charges based on battery chemistry and charging profile.

My thoughts on the install. I didn't want to spend the money for lithium batteries. I thought I would do the install on the cheap using inexpensive flooded lead acid batteries to see how it works. We do not have a marine generator installed in this boat. I do have a 2200 watt Honda generator with a built-in Co detector that will shut the engine down if it detects dangerous levels of CO. We use this in the mornings to make coffee, microwave, hot water heater, and toaster oven is used. The battery discharge percentage on average in the morning now with shorter days and longer times with out sun is between 30% to 35% of usable AH. The Victron reads between 65% and 70% in the morning. I do not want the flooded lead acid batteries to go much lower than that. For that reason I use the generator in the morning instead of the inverter. If I had lithium batteries with the same 600 watt battery capacity that I have with the lead acid I would have no problem running everything in the morning off the inverter and there would be no need for the Honda generator. Plus the charge profile of the lithium is different compared to the Lead acid batteries. I would get more benefit of the 600 watt panels with the lithium.

What it will take to change the batteries to lithium? When I installed this 12 volt configuration I did it with the thought of going to Lithium. The two cranking maintenance free batteries used for the port starting bank would be split. One would be for the port engine one would be used for the starboard. I would install a DC to DC charger from the start battery of the starboard engine to the house battery bank for charging the lithium batteries. I would install a DC to DC charger from the Port engine battery to the thruster battery bank that is now lithium.

 

[chriscritchett]

Probably not the answer you’re looking for, but it sounds to me like the system you set up works very well for you most of the time. What’s really going to happen to your battery bank if it’s not back up to 100% every single day?

I have a couple 175w panels on my boat, doing nothing but keeping things topped up and keeping a 65 qt fridge cold. Every once in a while, I’ll peek at the history on my VictronConnect and there will have been days where it never quite got back to float. But there’s enough capacity that eventually it gets back there after a few days. I prefer not to sweat it. If I lose a year’s life out of my AGM bank (highly unlikely) I probably won’t notice, and that’s cheaper than a lithium upgrade any day of the week.

Like I said, probably not what you were looking for and I apologize for being overly simplistic. Congrats on getting it as well set up as you did. There is no ‘perfect.’

 

[DavidM]

I agree with Chris’ assessment above. You will probably get five years of life out of your house bank if you at least charge them to 100% once a week to minimize sulfating. Leave it as is and enjoy it. Probably better than 95% of boats out cruising today.

David

 

[Comodave]

Maybe have a portable solar panel that you can deploy during the shorter days to get more charge. Before you get lithium batteries read the article on marinehowto.com on lithium batteries. It will help you in searching for the batteries.

 

[BB-marine]

I don't disagree that the flooded lead acid Batteries work ok. The cost of replacement batteries in the event that the longevity is cut short because of lack of full cycle charging is not close to the cost of Lithium.

One of the purposes of installing the solar was to have a system that could replace the generator. I don't have a marine generator. The 600 watt solar panels are not enough to do this with Lead acid flooded. My morning coffee, breakfast, hot water heater would rapidly deplete the batteries to 50% or less and the recovery of full charge would not happen in short winter months.

Lithium batteries can be continually discharged to 100% DOD and there is no long-term effect. It is recommended to only discharge down to 80% to maintain battery life. (4) 100 AH Lithium give me 320 AH of usable power. Lithium batteries provide 100% of their rated capacity, regardless of the rate of discharge, while lead-acid batteries typically provide less usable energy with higher rates of discharge. What does this mean? Ultimately you get more hours of power with a lithium battery .Lithium-ion batteries have low internal resistance, so they will take all the current delivered from the current charge cycle. 30amp charge to a 400 ah bank depleted to 20% capacity will charge completely in 10 hours. The smart solar controller will not throttle back like it does with my flooded lead acid batteries absorption to 80% then float. The other advantage to the lithium batteries is the weight. I have 4 group 31 Flooded lead acid batteries and 1 4D flooded. 60lbs group 31 and 130lbs 4d = 300ah usable =370 lbs. (4) 100AH Lithium batteries 30 lbs ea. 120 lbs for 320 usable AH. 250 lbs less weight in the aft section of a 34 pilot will make a performance difference.

For now I am going to save my money and give theses Flooded lead acid batteries a run for my money. If I keep the boat and need to replace the batteries I will be giving the lithium batteries a lot more thought.

 

[ksanders]

I installed solar panels last summer. The goal was to be able to stay anchored more as we are doing the Great Loop. I spent some time researching different controllers, solar panels, solar panel configurations and installations. With this came researching batteries, battery chemistry and charging profile's. WE have a 2002 34 pilot, twin engine, fully enclosed pilot house. This gave me plenty of room for solar panels. After researching components needed and batteries. This is what I installed:

House battery bank/starboard engine = (4) flooded lead acid group 31 105 AH DP East Penn batteries. This battery bank is charged three ways. Under way with engine, (55 amp standard Yanmar Alternator, starboard engine) + solar panels. Shore power, 30 amp 3 output battery charger + solar panels. At anchor, solar panels

Thruster battery bank= 4D flooded lead acid 180 AH DP East Penn Battery. This battery can be charged 3 ways. Under way with port engine 55 amp standard alternator. This is done by using a Blue Sea ACR. This isolates the Port engine battery bank from the thruster battery bank when a high amp load is used or the port engine is not running. Shore power, 30 amp 3 output battery charger. At anchor solar panels. ( I installed a battery combine switch that connects the house battery bank to the thruster battery bank. This switch is turned on when we are at anchor. The house bank 420 AH + thruster 180 AH batteries give a combined battery capacity of 600 AH , 300 AH usable at 50% discharge. The solar panel now is charging both banks.

Port engine battery bank= (2) group 31 maintenance free 900 CCA batteries. This battery bank can be charged two ways. Under way with Port engine alternator. Shore power 30 amp 3 output charger. ( If anchored and the Thruster battery reaches the Blue Sea specified threshold of 13.6 Volts the ACR will combine the Thruster bank to the Port engine battery bank and now it is charging.

Solar panels= (3) 200 watt Rich Solar 12V Monocrystalline panels wired in series with 10 gauge marine wire. The panels are wired to a double pole 15 amp breaker in a sealed box. From the breaker panel the wiring goes to a 100V/50amp Victron solar controller that is programed for charging flooded lead acid batteries. The wiring on the output side of the controller goes to a 50 amp breaker then to the house battery bank.

Inverter= 3000 watt Kisea pure sine wave inverter wired to the main 120V breaker panel. The output from the inverter to the panel is controlled by a double pole breaker that can only be turned on when the shore power double pole breaker is turned off. This inverter will run every thing on the boat if power management is used. We can use the electric stove top, hot water heater, marine air, outlets, coffee maker...... We are very conservative when using these items when at anchor and at night when there is no charge resource available.

Battery wiring cables. All were upgraded to 4/0

House bank and starboard engine battery powers, starboard engine start, all navigation equipment, all helm power, all house 12 volt panel users, trim tabs and the inverter.

Thruster bank battery powers, Thruster, windlass, 12volt, 20 amp panel with 12 volt receptacles, powering a portable freezer, phone and tablet charger, C-pap. These receptacles are installed in the forward stateroom.

Port engine battery bank powers, port engine start, Port engine to starboard engine emergency parallel start solenoid, all bilge pumps and the shower sump.

Victron battery monitor is installed to monitor the house battery bank and thruster battery bank when combined to the house bank. This monitor is set up to alarm when the batteries reach a 50% discharge. Both the Victron battery monitor and viltron solar controller can be monitored and controlled with my iPad.

Solar panel and battery performance when at anchor. The 600 watt capacity during summer months with longer days is more than enough capacity to charge the batteries to 100% each day and maintain all 12volt users (water pump, head, lights, electronics, refrigerator, freezer, conservative use of the inverter Microwave, coffee maker, .....) We stayed in an anchorage last September for 5 days and by 2:00 pm each day all battery banks were at 100% charge and the solar floated the batteries the rest of the day and maintained power for all 12Volt users.

We are now in Florida and it is December. Short days and longer times with out solar output. The 600 watt is marginal at best. We stayed anchored for 3 days on the third day at anchor when the solar output was done for the day 4:00 Pm the battery banks were at 95% charge the solar maintained all users but was unable to get the banks to full charge.

The 600 watt capacity I have never seen out of the controller the most I have seen is 480 watts. This doesn't mean the capacity is not there. The viltron controller charges based on battery chemistry and charging profile.

My thoughts on the install. I didn't want to spend the money for lithium batteries. I thought I would do the install on the cheap using inexpensive flooded lead acid batteries to see how it works. We do not have a marine generator installed in this boat. I do have a 2200 watt Honda generator with a built-in Co detector that will shut the engine down if it detects dangerous levels of CO. We use this in the mornings to make coffee, microwave, hot water heater, and toaster oven is used. The battery discharge percentage on average in the morning now with shorter days and longer times with out sun is between 30% to 35% of usable AH. The Victron reads between 65% and 70% in the morning. I do not want the flooded lead acid batteries to go much lower than that. For that reason I use the generator in the morning instead of the inverter. If I had lithium batteries with the same 600 watt battery capacity that I have with the lead acid I would have no problem running everything in the morning off the inverter and there would be no need for the Honda generator. Plus the charge profile of the lithium is different compared to the Lead acid batteries. I would get more benefit of the 600 watt panels with the lithium.

What it will take to change the batteries to lithium? When I installed this 12 volt configuration I did it with the thought of going to Lithium. The two cranking maintenance free batteries used for the port starting bank would be split. One would be for the port engine one would be used for the starboard. I would install a DC to DC charger from the start battery of the starboard engine to the house battery bank for charging the lithium batteries. I would install a DC to DC charger from the Port engine battery to the thruster battery bank that is now lithium.

If you do not have enough solar to fully recharge by nightfall that will not change by switching battery technologies.

 

[rslifkin]

If you do not have enough solar to fully recharge by nightfall that will not change by switching battery technologies.

That's mostly true, although you can at times extract a bit more power from solar with LFP batteries as they don't taper off as much in charge acceptance (so you'll spend less time with the batteries accepting less power than the solar can provide). And LFP also doesn't have sulfation issues, so it doesn't hurt them if you don't get them to 100% every day.

 

[ksanders]

That's mostly true, although you can at times extract a bit more power from solar with LFP batteries as they don't taper off as much in charge acceptance (so you'll spend less time with the batteries accepting less power than the solar can provide). And LFP also doesn't have sulfation issues, so it doesn't hurt them if you don't get them to 100% every day.

Correct, That would be something to look at... What is the limiting factor in this real life application? Solar capacity, or battery charging profile.

 

[SteveK]

Just getting into this solar charge thing.
But one thing I have learned is a need for a house bank to have enough Ah at peak times with leftover above 50%, then second is to find a way to recharge them for the next peak usage.
Having enough solar to do the job is a great idea for those that use the boat more often. Alternators and genny have worked in the past.

I have 840-860 Ah max flooded, about 400 Ah for peak use. Have now completed several complete cooking with stove top and oven meals off the inverter without going to 50%. would need about 1000 watt solar panel to recharge within 6 hours in summer, but using at supper time, there is not enough sun left, so? Need more battery Ah for morning, then more solar to charge it all back before supper.

Or use the BBQ more often with propane. Previously, propane stove/oven and light loads of about 100-200Ah per day. could last 3 days on hook then travel 5 hours somewhere while Alts worked.

Boating is expensive because we are always planning for what if occasional events. The good ole days in a cuddy cabin, alcohol cook stove boat with a CB radio, no cell.

 

[Mambo42]

@BB-Marine

When I read your post about what you have installed I was already impressed that you were able to get 480 W out of 600 Wp panels on a regular basis. That is close to 40 Amps, which is a lot out of a small system.

I think your problem is two fold at this moment.
First one is that your solar capacity is not large enough to charge the batteries during the shortened days. My guess is that you have about 6 hours of usable sunlight at the moment, which would give you (at 480 Wp all the time) max 240 Ah. The AGM's cannot be charged at full charge to 100 %, so at this moment it is clear you can't charge your batteries during these shorter days, just by using your solar array.
The output of solar panels also goes down when temperatures go up, so that does not help you either. On top of that Florida is known for the 3 PM rain shower activities, so even less output when that happens.
In order to have solar fill up your batteries during the shorter days you would need to install a larger system, which means or adding more panels or changing the current panels into larger panels.

The second problem is indeed the current batteries. Charging them to roughly 80 % goes indeed quick, but after that it goes real slow, so you need more time to fill them up. And currently you don't have that time with those shorter days.

Those shorter days also cause the batteries to be drained more than during the longer days. After all, during longer days the solar will provide that energy to operate the boat and to charge the batteries.
During shorter days you drain your batteries more, but have less time to charge them and thus you run into your current problem.
A larger solar system can help solve the problem at least partially.

I did see one connection that I would change however. You wrote that your thruster bank is connected to the house bank and charges via solar while on anchor. The problem with this is that (and we all do that) use our thrusters just prior to switching the engines off. In strong winds the thrusters get used more and thus drain the batteries heavier. Same is during anchoring. We don't need to use the thrusters, but when we let the anchor out via the motor we drain the batteries, but we can also free fall the anchor, using no battery power.
In other words, we take out a lot of Ah by using the thrusters and anchor and then........we switch off the engines, which means those batteries now also need to be filled up and your current set up will do that immediately, leaving the house bank waiting. When in port that is not a problem, the shore power will solve it for you. But out at anchor it is a problem.
So perhaps disconnect the thruster batteries from the house bank if you plan to recharge via solar and first top up the house bank, only then the thruster batteries. Or, keep the engines running and thus the alternators after you have used the thrusters/anchor and plan to recharge via solar, until the load on the generators starts to go down. Then you know you have entered the slow charging phase of the batteries at which point you can switch off the engines.

I don't know how your current inverter looks at the battery banks, but I know that with Victron it is extremely important that all battery cables have the exact same length. If one battery has a shorter battery cable the Victron will prefer that battery and you will get an uneven drain and charge.

Lithium does not have the problem of slow charging until 100 %, but you need to adjust the alternators for a different program. AGM basically requires a full load and then reduce that to a 'trickle charge', while lithium can handle a full charge until the end.
Adding a wakespeed regulator can truly help with that, making sure you have to maximum performance.
But, lithium will have the same problem of not being charged completely when the total Ah required is more than what you can generate via solar. During summer it won't be a problem, but winter will always remain a problem.

So in conclusion, add more solar and/or increase the output of the alternators. A Balmar alternator of 150 A will already deliver close to 100 A at idle speed of the engine. That means that, while on anchor, you could (if you wish to do so) run the engine for about 1 hour, get 100 Ah in the batteries and then top it off with the solar. Each 100 Ah you can pour in via the engines is basically worth 2.5 hours of solar. Bad part ? Those Balmars are pretty expensive.

 

[PocketAces]

Honda 2000 generator in lazarette

@BBMarine: You posted: "We do not have a marine generator installed in this boat. I do have a 2200 watt Honda generator with a built-in Co detector that will shut the engine down if it detects dangerous levels of CO. We use this in the mornings to make coffee, microwave, hot water heater, and toaster oven is used. "
It never occurred to me to run my Honda Generator in the lazarette as I assumed CO would be a problem. You mention running yours (in the lazerette?) and using a CO monitor. Have you ever had it shut-down or detect excess CO?
I am now thinking I could run the my Honda generator in the lazerette (which would reduce the noise in quiet anchorages) and run the extractor fan at the same time. (It would only be 1-2 hours per day for some battery charging.) I have 3 CO monitors in the cabin and forward berth.

Comments?

 

[BB-marine]

@BBMarine: You posted: "We do not have a marine generator installed in this boat. I do have a 2200 watt Honda generator with a built-in Co detector that will shut the engine down if it detects dangerous levels of CO. We use this in the mornings to make coffee, microwave, hot water heater, and toaster oven is used. "
It never occurred to me to run my Honda Generator in the lazarette as I assumed CO would be a problem. You mention running yours (in the lazerette?) and using a CO monitor. Have you ever had it shut-down or detect excess CO?
I am now thinking I could run the my Honda generator in the lazerette (which would reduce the noise in quiet anchorages) and run the extractor fan at the same time. (It would only be 1-2 hours per day for some battery charging.) I have 3 CO monitors in the cabin and forward berth.

Comments?

I run the 2200w Honda in the cockpit with cockpit door open and exhaust side of generator is even with cockpit door opening. The generator did shut down one time when the cockpit door was not properly latched open. A wake caused the door to swing closed and the generator shut down on Detected CO. The CO detector in the pilot house was showing 45PPM which is slightly lower than 8 hour permissible exposure and did not set the alarm off. I assume it was much higher right at the generator but we were not in danger. I am not an advocate for portable generators on boats. There needs to be extreme caution and awareness when using one. With that said I do use mine for morning coffee and toaster. From the time I made my first post to now. The days in Florida are longer and the sun seems to be giving me more solar energy. Maybe angle? We anchored for 4 days at Pelican Bay just off Charlotte Harbor. My batteries each day reached 100% by 2:00 pm. The Vitron controller would float the batteries until about 5:00 pm and keep up with all 12v users. At 5:00 The batteries would still be at 100%. By 9:00 pm 90% when I would check the battery monitor in the morning 70%. By 9am the batteries would be on bulk charge and repeating a cycle. I believe that the Lithium batteries would give me the added Ah I need and the solar set up I have would be sufficient. I am close now with the Lead Acid batteries. The issue is 70% in the morning is probably enough to make coffee and breakfast but it would deplete the AH quickly. Bottom line what I have works. With a few changes it can work better

 

[koliver]

@BBMarine: You posted: "We do not have a marine generator installed in this boat. I do have a 2200 watt Honda generator with a built-in Co detector that will shut the engine down if it detects dangerous levels of CO. We use this in the mornings to make coffee, microwave, hot water heater, and toaster oven is used. "
It never occurred to me to run my Honda Generator in the lazarette as I assumed CO would be a problem. You mention running yours (in the lazerette?) and using a CO monitor. Have you ever had it shut-down or detect excess CO?
I am now thinking I could run the my Honda generator in the lazerette (which would reduce the noise in quiet anchorages) and run the extractor fan at the same time. (It would only be 1-2 hours per day for some battery charging.) I have 3 CO monitors in the cabin and forward berth.

Comments?

Getting rid of deadly products of burning gasoline in your laz is only 1/2 of the reasons not to run or store your Honda gen in the lazarette.
The other part of the equation is the off gassing of the fuel in the gen while it is not being used. the gasoline fumes will collect at the low point, which will always be on the bilge water, likely well away from the laz and in a place that is not designed to evacuate those fumes.
Boom.

 

[PocketAces]

Thanks for the answers re Honda 2000. I just needed to confirm what I sort of suspected anyway. It also occurred to me that if I ran a generator in the lazerette it might generate enough CO2 to trigger the lazerette fire extinguisher? Not sure if that is temperature or Co2 triggered.
Also, running a generator in the lazerette would generate a lot of soot (I think).

I only use my generator a few times a year and am in the process of installing some solar panels hopefully to make the generator redundant. I already have an EFOY 140 which was supposed to provide 140 AH daily, but only gives me around 90.

@ BB-marine: I have a propane stove so no need to power up a generator for morning coffee

 

[Comodave]

Personally I would not use a portable genset on a boat, but would absolutely not run one in the lazarette.