Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-22-2021, 02:22 PM   #41
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by rherten View Post
My propwalk is a bit frustrating - I have a right hand prop, which means the boat tends to rotate clockwise in reverse. The helm and door are on the starboard side, so I naturally want to dock on the starboard side. Problem is when I come in to the dock and put the boat in reverse it pulls the stern away from the dock instead of towards it. Fortunately I have bow and stern thrusters but I hate to over-rely on those, especially on a windy day. I've had the boat 2 seasons and I still find this very challenging and frustrating - any advice?
Have you ever tried mooring stern-first? I don't have a stern thruster which with my right-handed-prop-in-a-tunnel with NO prop walk makes a bow first alongside mooring at PITA whenever the stern gets loose. I learned the stern-first method in the oil patch with a twin engine, BT-equipped offshore supply vessel, but it is very useful in this single engine, BT only boat. Slide the corner of the stern into where it belongs with the first mate there to hand over the line and push the bow in with the BT. Our 30 Pilot is very difficult for anybody to get back and forth from the bow, and I prefer to let the wife climb out of the cockpit aft onto the pier after the stern line is over and walk forward to secure the bow line which has been lead along the rub rail to the cockpit beforehand. It's all easier than messing about with a spring line, which we have practiced with just in case, but we pretty much need an assist from ashore getting the spring onto a cleat or piling.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 03:37 PM   #42
Newbie
 
City: Treasure Island FL
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2
I went from a single engine Ocean Alexander 43 with the prop in the hole in the skeg. It walked wonderfully. Reverse took the stern to starboard.

Now I have a single 2007 Mainship 34 with the prop in a tunnel. It will not walk usefully in either forward or reverse.

That’s life.

Fred Sorensen
Treasure Island FL
fcsorensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 04:05 PM   #43
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,864
Yes, rely on your thrusters when you need to in short bursts. Doesn't make you any less of a man or a capt.

I have been practising w/o thrusters when conditions are right and once this season got pushed into a difficult spot due to a worse than anticipated river current after a heavy rain. I won't make that mistake again.
__________________
In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him. ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 04:34 PM   #44
Veteran Member
 
City: berkeley
Vessel Name: Lilliana
Vessel Model: Willard 40
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 58
prop walk

When I purchased my Willard 30 21 years ago, I noticed that the commercial fishing boats never had thrusters and maneuvered their boats in close quarters with no problems. Using prop walk (left hand prop so pulls to starboard in reverse) I have NEVER had a problem landing at a dock using the technique that Peter P. described

Prop walk is due to the curvature in the hull. When the stream off the prop ricochets off the curved hull it pushes it to one side. So hulls with little or no curvature will have no prop walk. That is one of the benefits of a true full displacement hull.

Personally I would not install thrusters on a boat due to the maintenance required in cleaning the prop and changing seals. But I need to keep my vessels as simple as possible due to the remote areas that I cruise in. If I purchased a boat that already had thrusters I probably would not remove them and would learn to love them.
rpackard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 04:41 PM   #45
Guru
 
City: Montgomery
Vessel Name: Choices
Vessel Model: 36 Grand Banks Europa
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 552
You have only shifts in a transmission. Why waste them when you have a thruster?
__________________
36 Grand Banks Europa
Montgomery, TX
Blog: "grandbankschoices"
Choices is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 05:48 PM   #46
TF Site Team
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpackard View Post
Prop walk is due to the curvature in the hull. When the stream off the prop ricochets off the curved hull it pushes it to one side. So hulls with little or no curvature will have no prop walk. That is one of the benefits of a true full displacement hull.

I have heard this before, but...Aren't both sides of a FD hull curved? Doesn't the stream actually hit both sides equally?

My Semi Displacement hull, with twins where the props are aft of the keel by at least a foot, gets a great assist from prop walk in reverse. There is no curved hull close to the props. In fact, the props are far enough aft that the angle of the hull is as much or more fore and aft as it is sideways.
Prop walk allows me to effectively guide my travel in reverse by choosing which engine is engaged. Engaging the port engine in reverse pulls the stern to Starboard, the Sb engine pulls to Port.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 06:09 PM   #47
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 25,499
My hard chined, relatively flat stern 40 foot trawler has the most prop walk of any vessel I have run. Use it regularly in , maneuvering. My understanding asymmetrical trust of the prop accounts for a lot of walk.


Twins get the benefits of offset props from the centerline to accentuate walk.
Attached Thumbnails
20170919_105534_001.jpg  
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 06:34 PM   #48
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by rherten View Post
My propwalk is a bit frustrating - I have a right hand prop, which means the boat tends to rotate clockwise in reverse. The helm and door are on the starboard side, so I naturally want to dock on the starboard side. Problem is when I come in to the dock and put the boat in reverse it pulls the stern away from the dock instead of towards it. Fortunately I have bow and stern thrusters but I hate to over-rely on those, especially on a windy day. I've had the boat 2 seasons and I still find this very challenging and frustrating - any advice?

I have the same issue. Sometimes it is hard.

Whenever possible, I try to approach so that Im holding hard left rudder at the end. This will cause the stern to move to starboard and the reverse prop walk simply slows it down. When I do it right, all forward momentum is gone right as the boat lays up against the dock.

That is harder if you are pulling into a slip with little room. In that case you cant angle into the dock to do the above. However, hard left rudder will still move your stern to Stb without causing too much forward motion. Just quick shift into forward will move that stern to the right. Again, when I do it right, it is wonderful.

However, there are times when wind and current conspire against you and the prop walk just makes it worse. That is when Im really glad I have bow and stern thrusters and often wish they were more powerful.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 06:41 PM   #49
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,322
A partial explanation of why prop walk happens was explained in US Navy texts as the hydrodynamic effect of deeper water on the bottom of a propeller. The reader was informed that the higher pressure at the bottom of a prop gave the blades there a better "grip" so that one might envision the propeller rolling along the bottom. Thus a left-handed prop in reverse pulls the stern to stbd.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 06:42 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
City: englewood florida
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 150
I have a single engine left hand prop and a large keel. I put the wheel all the way to port and by alternating the transmission from reverse to forward to reverse, etc, etc the boat will turn to startboard within its own length. It works, be patient. Attached is a picture showing the keel.
Attached Thumbnails
57C5D712-222F-4594-AB1A-2906419D7AAD.jpg  
cbouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2021, 08:15 PM   #51
Senior Member
 
Capt Dan's Avatar
 
City: Camden, Maine
Vessel Name: Willie Dawes
Vessel Model: Newburyport 37
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 143
Often the mark of a good boat handler is that only idle speed is used. This also makes things simpler as you only need to use the shifter, not the throttle. Practice it.
All that being said, there are cases when a little extra “shot” or “burst” of throttle is needed. Practice this to, and try and keep the burst to a controlled quick up and down of rpm. This can normally be done by ear and by feel, no need to watch the tach, keep your head on a swivel looking at the situation.

Never “speed shift”. Always pause in between ahead and astern. (Most electronic shifters build this pause in)

Every boat is different, tunnels, skeg extending to gudgeon at the base of the rudder vs no skeg may have a big effect. Size and type of wheel also a factor. Size of rudder a factor also. Many Trawler owners have increased the rudder size, or modified the shape.

Also check next time you are on the hard that your rudder swings equally one side to the other. When I purchased my boat this adjustment was way off.

Come to think about it, perhaps it should be slightly off depending on your prop size?
Capt Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 06:36 AM   #52
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbouch View Post
I have a single engine left hand prop and a large keel. I put the wheel all the way to port and by alternating the transmission from reverse to forward to reverse, etc, etc the boat will turn to startboard within its own length. It works, be patient. Attached is a picture showing the keel.
This is all well and good and a worthwhile manuever to learn and practice. But it takes time to turn a boat that way and in some situations you don't have time. At my home slip I deal with tidal currents in a river. Depending on the weather and the height and timing of the tide, the current can be running very fast. When leaving my slip, I have to make a quick 90 degree turn or run into the next downstream pier. When doing that when the current is running strong (and possibly with wind too) if you don't make that turn very quickly and with decent headway, you will end up against the boats at the next pier. At times you have to actually "crab" your boat at an angle into the current till you clear the channel where the piers are lined up perpendicular to the current. If you have a single engine and no thrusters, you don't always get to come and go when you want to.
__________________
In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him. ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 07:59 AM   #53
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 25,499
Usually in situations that I can't turn into in time, I can back into them and sometimes back a fair ways out of the marina for the same reason.


I know most don't like doing this and may not have the skills to do this, but it's the way out when foreward doesn't work, then after that there are other tricks. As walking the bow through the current and unusual spring line use.


When one is a single with no thruster and on a working vessel with a schedule, one learns to be creative and does get the practice to improve.


But there are ways possible to maneuver.... though a thruster would be preferred.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 08:30 AM   #54
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Usually in situations that I can't turn into in time, I can back into them and sometimes back a fair ways out of the marina for the same reason.


I know most don't like doing this and may not have the skills to do this, but it's the way out when foreward doesn't work, then after that there are other tricks. As walking the bow through the current and unusual spring line use.


When one is a single with no thruster and on a working vessel with a schedule, one learns to be creative and does get the practice to improve.


But there are ways possible to maneuver.... though a thruster would be preferred.
Thanks and I don't disagree. I am always docked stern in so it's always bow out first. I'm not a working vessel with a set schedule so I am glad to have thrusters when needed and not have to deal with spring lines or other methods when conditions are the worst. When conditions are not bad, I practice w/o thrusters, but I don't have a lot of prop walk anyway. Using forward and reverse thrusts I can get the boat to turn when the current is relatively mild.
__________________
In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him. ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 10:01 AM   #55
Guru
 
Soo-Valley's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Soo Valley
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by backinblue View Post
This is all well and good and a worthwhile manuever to learn and practice. But it takes time to turn a boat that way and in some situations you don't have time. At my home slip I deal with tidal currents in a river. Depending on the weather and the height and timing of the tide, the current can be running very fast. When leaving my slip, I have to make a quick 90 degree turn or run into the next downstream pier. When doing that when the current is running strong (and possibly with wind too) if you don't make that turn very quickly and with decent headway, you will end up against the boats at the next pier. At times you have to actually "crab" your boat at an angle into the current till you clear the channel where the piers are lined up perpendicular to the current. If you have a single engine and no thrusters, you don't always get to come and go when you want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backinblue View Post
Thanks and I don't disagree. I am always docked stern in so it's always bow out first. I'm not a working vessel with a set schedule so I am glad to have thrusters when needed and not have to deal with spring lines or other methods when conditions are the worst. When conditions are not bad, I practice w/o thrusters, but I don't have a lot of prop walk anyway. Using forward and reverse thrusts I can get the boat to turn when the current is relatively mild.
I was in a river marina and know what you are saying about currents and crabbing.
The last two posts tell me you should not be stern in but bow in.
You need headway to turn, water flow over rudder to steer. The current neutralizes some or all of that flow. Try bow in and back out. You should have more control bow to current.
__________________
SteveK AKA Soo Valley
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Soo-Valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 10:23 AM   #56
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soo-Valley View Post
I was in a river marina and know what you are saying about currents and crabbing.
The last two posts tell me you should not be stern in but bow in.
You need headway to turn, water flow over rudder to steer. The current neutralizes some or all of that flow. Try bow in and back out. You should have more control bow to current.
I appreciate the advice, but I need to be stern in for boarding. I board on the swim platform or from the port side, but the finger for my slip is only about 12 ft long so bow in won't work. I'm at a yacht club and the slips are a little unusual. Some are just pilings, some have small fingers, so stern in is the norm except for some of the much smaller boats. Also note that the river is tidal so I get current in both directions but the worst is outgoing especially after a heavy rain.
__________________
In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him. ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 10:29 AM   #57
Guru
 
Soo-Valley's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Soo Valley
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by backinblue View Post
I appreciate the advice, but I need to be stern in for boarding. I board on the swim platform or from the port side, but the finger for my slip is only about 12 ft long so bow in won't work. I'm at a yacht club and the slips are a little unusual. Some are just pilings, some have small fingers, so stern in is the norm except for some of the much smaller boats. Also note that the river is tidal so I get current in both directions but the worst is outgoing especially after a heavy rain.
OK. I am trying to picture a 35 foot boat with 12 feet of dock. I see your problem.
__________________
SteveK AKA Soo Valley
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Soo-Valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 10:40 AM   #58
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 9,546
Prop walk, idle, creeper speed, back and fill and spring lines are your friends. Practice, practice, practice.
__________________
The meek will inherit the earth but, the brave will inherit the seas.
OldDan1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 12:17 PM   #59
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDan1943 View Post
Prop walk, idle, creeper speed, back and fill and spring lines are your friends. Practice, practice, practice.
But thursters are my BFFs! lol
__________________
In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him. ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 12:26 PM   #60
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 9,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by backinblue View Post
But thursters are my BFFs! lol
Of course unless your batteries are low or flat.
__________________
The meek will inherit the earth but, the brave will inherit the seas.
OldDan1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012