Pops circuit breaker on shorepower/30 pilot ii

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browndog15

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
Messages
9
Location
USA
Hello,
I have a 2004 30 Mainship Pilot ii. When I plug into newly wired marinas (up to new codes), I pop the circuit breaker on the shore power (on the dock). I know of another 30 that does the same thing. Anyone else have a similar issue or know of a fix? Maybe an issue with a ground? Happens at the new municipal docks at Put in Bay, everywhere else is fine. Thx.
 
Most likely it’s a neutral issue with your inverter. No inverter, then a neutral and ground are combined. However, there are many other possibilities that can cause this.
 
Most likely it’s a neutral issue with your inverter. No inverter, then a neutral and ground are combined. However, there are many other possibilities that can cause this.

Agree. Many possibilities for the tripping. I have seen outlets with neutral and ground wires reversed, neutral to ground connections ate the most likely though.
 
It can also happen if the inverter neutral bus and the shore power neutral bus are one and the same.

When the inverter first turns on, before and while initially sensing for shore power, it has the neutral and grounding conductors tied on the output as if it is supplying power. If the inverter neutral and shore neutral are the same, it just tied the shore neutral and grounding conductors together. Pop goes the ELCI/GFCI/RCD.
 
hi,

you don't mention year of the ms. if it's circa 2006 or prior and has promariner electrical components, i'd search this forum for posts about the monitoring system. i'll paraphrase here. the monitoring system sends a small current to the pedestal which if it's a new pedestal will be seen as a fault. it will trip the pedestal. you can bypass the monitor by taking out the fuse or you can buy a new monitor.
 
Most of the time when an inverter is present we find the neutrals are all on the same buss or one neutral ended up on the wrong buss.

The most common failure is a pesky hidden neutral ground combination. This often shows up in some cheap appliance that has an internal neutral ground combination.

Other difficult to find issues.

Appliances were the plug was cut off to hard wire to the circuit. Only they rewired it backwards.

Corrosion on the back side of AC outlets that allow just enough leakage to Tripp an ELCI but not enough to trip a circuit breaker.

Old hot water heaters. The heating element builds up enough scale to create leakage between the element and the tank.
 
To narrow it down, isolate all your circuit breakers, then plug in and switch on c/b's one at a time to see when it trips.
 
Our 2003 Mainship had the same problem. It required two repairs. The test circuit for the galvanic isolator would trip the breaker. Removing fuses, there were three in the system, did not help. The only answer was to replace the isolator with one that didn't have the test circuit. The second problem was with the neutral circuit. The shore power and inverter neutrals were combined. Separating into two neutral circuits, one for shore power and another for inverter loads, fixed the problem. Now I can plug into any shore power outlet and not trip the breaker.
 
When I am working on this type of problem I have an extension cord with a GFI outlet on it. I plug the boat into it and use it for troubleshooting the problem. Since most of the docks don’t have the new breakers on them. That way I can simulate the problem and narrow it down. It will only support 15 amps but so far I have fixed about 6 boats and had it work well each time. It won’t support the A/Cs but it does most other things one at a time.
 
First in this situation, check Ground-Neutral continuity at the inlet, cord(s) disconnected. On 30A and 50A /125, check between the bent prong and the smaller of the other two. On 50A 125/250, between the straight prong and side contact. If a galvanic isolator is installed, jumper the two ground connections for the check. Make sure circuit breakers are on and switches set for operation from the inlet being checked. It isn't necessary to check multiple inlets. If continuity is found you must locate and isolate the connection.

This situation is coming up regularly and will be for some time as marinas upgrade. Improper G-N connections on boats are fairly common, and the adverse influence on corrosion and zinc depletion is often overlooked or ignored. I have seen a number over the years with the main G & N busses jumpered together and looking like original work. Or a land electrician has come along and thought it should be added. Improper inverter wiring and improper wiring of a 120/240V domestic appliance will introduce a G-N connection. This connection puts the ground wire in parallel with the neutral, an alternate path for the load current, as these are properly connected at the transformer or distribution panel serving the pedestal. G and N are to be connected only at the source of power, and the connection tied in only when that source is in use.

A galvanic isolator's monitor should not trip an ELCI device, as it uses DC which is not sensed by these devices. This test current does not flow to the pedestal, only across the isolator. I guess I shouldn't rule out an odd exception though. A test arrangement might be done with a 120V indicator lamp and a button, and this would trip an ELCI unless the lamp current is very small. An ELCI can be tripped by a combination of poor neutral connection, high load, and: A main breaker with reverse-polarity trip, or, an incandescent reverse-polarity indicator. Either of these will read continuity at the inlet. In the case of the circuit breaker the trip coil will have to be disconnected. An LED indicator will not cause a trip. In such a case, correcting the poor neutral connection may solve the issue.

And, the issue could be an actual live wire leakage fault. And something else that could give it a curve here, OP's location is shown as Gibraltar. Is this a N American or Euro wired boat, and is there a transformer installed?
 
When troubleshooting our ELCI problem I contacted Pro Mariner, the maker of our galvanic isolator. They told me that the monitor on our unit was not compatible with the new shore power breakers and would cause them to trip. They said there was no solution except to replace the isolator with a newer style. I did try to find a solution, using a cord like Comodave, but was not able to do so. I ended up with a new isolator.
 
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