MS 400 Engine doesn’t turn off

[Bay Retriever]

Nice warm day here in the southern Chesapeake Bay. Came out to my Marina to run my 2004 MS 400 single Cat 3126 engine which has stayed in water as usual over the winter. Everything working but engine doesn’t turn off when I flipped the engine switch off at the helm.

Was able to turn engine off at the electric panel box.

Suggestions?

T MacDonnell
Bay Retriever

 

[garmstro55]

Hey Tom, what do you mean by "Was able to turn engine off at the electric panel box"?

Do you mean you turned the engine switch off at the circuit panel by the galley?

I am somewhat of a rookie, like you, when it comes to diesel engines but there are essentially two ways to shut off a diesel, remove oxygen or remove fuel source.

I believe the Yanmar has a stop solenoid that shuts off the fuel to the engine. So, you need to find that device and I can't help you there as I have a different engine. It's possible there is a bad connection in the shut down circuit, either at the helm switch or at the solenoid itself. Check the connections at the helm first. If that doesn't work you might be able to hear a click if you are in the engine room and someone activates the switch for you. If you can hear the solenoid, locate it and check the terminals.

Since the engine did eventually shut down, I suspect the solenoid is ok, but as I said at the beginning, I'm not sure how you did it.

Did you try a the switch at the other helm station to see if that one worked?

The solenoid may look something like this.

 

[fgarriso]

CATS has a fuel shutoff solenoid. If you were able to shut it off at a panel switch, but not at helm as usual then there is a problem at the helm.

 

[Bay Retriever]

CATS has a fuel shutoff solenoid. If you were able to shut it off at a panel switch, but not at helm as usual then there is a problem at the helm.

OK. Next time I’m out at the boat, probably Sunday, March 13th, I will fiddle with the helm switch connections.

 

[Bacchus]

It seems like if successful shutting down at elec panel breaker the solenoid must be OK and problem in switch. I'd check sw operation w a meter first.

 

[Cartouche]

Hey Tom, what do you mean by "Was able to turn engine off at the electric panel box"?

Do you mean you turned the engine switch off at the circuit panel by the galley?

I am somewhat of a rookie, like you, when it comes to diesel engines but there are essentially two ways to shut off a diesel, remove oxygen or remove fuel source.

I believe the Yanmar has a stop solenoid that shuts off the fuel to the engine. So, you need to find that device and I can't help you there as I have a different engine. It's possible there is a bad connection in the shut down circuit, either at the helm switch or at the solenoid itself. Check the connections at the helm first. If that doesn't work you might be able to hear a click if you are in the engine room and someone activates the switch for you. If you can hear the solenoid, locate it and check the terminals.

Since the engine did eventually shut down, I suspect the solenoid is ok, but as I said at the beginning, I'm not sure how you did it.

Did you try a the switch at the other helm station to see if that one worked?

The solenoid may look something like this.

It will only turn off from the station that you turned it on with

 

[garmstro55]

It will only turn off from the station that you turned it on with

This is not true, at least on the 400. You can turn off from any station but if the engine switch is energized at the other station the low oil pressure buzzer will sound until you go to the other station and turn the rocker switch off.

 

[NEtrawler58]

I'm guessing he means it didn't turn off with the ignition key. Mine will stop when the key is turned off but also has a stop button that I usually use only because that's what the manual says to do. Once it stops I then turn off the key or the buzzer will sound. I wonder if the OP does not have a stop button. Sounds like a intermittent connection in his ignition switch.

 

[Cartouche]

I'm guessing he means it didn't turn off with the ignition key. Mine will stop when the key is turned off but also has a stop button that I usually use only because that's what the manual says to do. Once it stops I then turn off the key or the buzzer will sound. I wonder if the OP does not have a stop button. Sounds like a intermittent connection in his ignition switch.

on the 390 and 400 there is no key On the Main DC Panel there is a breaker to energize the Helms and there is a switch at both helms for start and stop. On the 390 and I would have thought the same on the 400 (as the Dashes are identical,) that the engine if Started from the upper helm can not be shut down at the lower helm (to shut down the engine the Stop rocker is depressed) and when the engine is off the low oil buzzer sounds and can not be shut off at the lower helm as the switch would already be in the off position, I know this to be true for the 390

 

[garmstro55]

on the 390 and 400 there is no key On the Main DC Panel there is a breaker to energize the Helms and there is a switch at both helms for start and stop. On the 390 and I would have thought the same on the 400 (as the Dashes are identical,) that the engine if Started from the upper helm can not be shut down at the lower helm (to shut down the engine the Stop rocker is depressed) and when the engine is off the low oil buzzer sounds and can not be shut off at the lower helm as the switch would already be in the off position, I know this to be true for the 390

It's true...one time I started the engines from below and shut them off at the flybridge. I heard the buzzer going off and for a few seconds couldn't figure out what was going on. Finally I went below and turned off the switches to get it to stop.

 

[Bacchus]

I dont know for sure but I will guess that the difference may depend on what engine(s) are installed. Some stop solenoids are powered to stop and others powered to run.
I'm pretty sure my Yanmar is powered to stop so any stop button could provide the reqd signal.
For powered to run the switch has to continue to power it during operation (I believe some at a reduced level but still need some power) and I'll bet you have to break power from the switch it was started from.
To stop a powered to run from either location would require a set of 3 way switches and a little more complex wiring... still doable but guess builders may take the easy path.

 

[Bay Retriever]

CATS has a fuel shutoff solenoid. If you were able to shut it off at a panel switch, but not at helm as usual then there is a problem at the helm.

Anybody know where to find this ignition switch? I’d like to try replacing this switch before replacing the Shutoff Solenoid, which is Caterpillar part 125-5772 and costs about $100.

 

[Lepke]

You can buy an aftermarket fuel shutoff solenoid on ebay.com for about $60.

 

[Bay Retriever]

You can buy an aftermarket fuel shutoff solenoid on ebay.com for about $60.

Do you know how to find and replace the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid? Looking for tips so I can figure out if I can do it myself.

 

[backinblue]

Do you know how to find and replace the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid? Looking for tips so I can figure out if I can do it myself.

Why replace the solenoid when it appears to be working? Sounds like a problem with your ignition or stop switch.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Why replace the solenoid when it appears to be working? Sounds like a problem with your ignition or stop switch.

This is the bottom side of ignition/stop switch that I am trying to source. Anyone know a vendor to buy one from? I have a 2004 Mainship 400 with a single Caterpillar 3126 385 HP engine.

 

[Piaro]

Hi all, first post here!


Well, actually it's my second post as I did a lengthy write up last night on this, complete with linked images and of course I wasn't even thinking that the pics were technically links to other sites so it got trashed as spam. Anyway I'll do a slightly modified write up here and just give you some terms to search so you can see what I'm talking about.



For a start, while I can't compare the actual terminals I believe your switch is a "Carling TIGK51-6S-BL-NBL" but I suspect the actual part number is on the opposite side of your switch.



However, it looks to me like your switch is wired with 2 "single female to dual male" adapters on the red & purple wires. These can be problematic and I'd suggest giving them a good off-and-on and then a good wiggle afterwards to see if your problem goes away. If it does I suggest crimping up your own "Y" adapter with a single female and dual male plugs on about 2 inches of wire, it takes a lot of strain off the terminal. Also if you don't have any yet a tiny dab of silicone grease protects a bit from future corrosion but more importantly makes the little bastards a lot easier to push on and remove.



I believe the 3126 also has a "Bosch style" 12V relay that energized the shut off solenoid and those can go bad, the ones you buy at an auto parts store are the same as the ones you get at a boatyard except cheaper, buy one from napa and they're about $15 but online at places like walmart &ebay you can get a pack of 4 or 5 for that. Quality seems to be the same, if for piece of mind you'd like the "best money can buy" I'd say purchase a genuine made in Germany Bosch one.



Lastly, on your pic of the switch it looks like the purple wires and 2 of the red wires are switched to each other, and the yellow/red stripe is switched to the other red wire in the pic but I cannot see if that wire even goers to this switch? I'm assuming it does but please post if it doesn't.


Anyway, hope everyone is having a happy Easter!


Mark

 

[Bay Retriever]

Hi all, first post here!


Well, actually it's my second post as I did a lengthy write up last night on this, complete with linked images and of course I wasn't even thinking that the pics were technically links to other sites so it got trashed as spam. Anyway I'll do a slightly modified write up here and just give you some terms to search so you can see what I'm talking about.



For a start, while I can't compare the actual terminals I believe your switch is a "Carling TIGK51-6S-BL-NBL" but I suspect the actual part number is on the opposite side of your switch.



However, it looks to me like your switch is wired with 2 "single female to dual male" adapters on the red & purple wires. These can be problematic and I'd suggest giving them a good off-and-on and then a good wiggle afterwards to see if your problem goes away. If it does I suggest crimping up your own "Y" adapter with a single female and dual male plugs on about 2 inches of wire, it takes a lot of strain off the terminal. Also if you don't have any yet a tiny dab of silicone grease protects a bit from future corrosion but more importantly makes the little bastards a lot easier to push on and remove.



I believe the 3126 also has a "Bosch style" 12V relay that energized the shut off solenoid and those can go bad, the ones you buy at an auto parts store are the same as the ones you get at a boatyard except cheaper, buy one from napa and they're about $15 but online at places like walmart &ebay you can get a pack of 4 or 5 for that. Quality seems to be the same, if for piece of mind you'd like the "best money can buy" I'd say purchase a genuine made in Germany Bosch one.



Lastly, on your pic of the switch it looks like the purple wires and 2 of the red wires are switched to each other, and the yellow/red stripe is switched to the other red wire in the pic but I cannot see if that wire even goers to this switch? I'm assuming it does but please post if it doesn't.


Anyway, hope everyone is having a happy Easter!


Mark

Happy Easter indeed!

The Easter Bunny sort of brought me a gift. Not the traditional kind(colored eggs or some chocolate candies)…more like a kick in the head that jarred me into thinking [emoji848] hmm - I bet I missed something. So I went to the flybridge and decided to check the ignition switch position. And Wallah! Problem solved!!

Those of you that know the answer, please forgive my overwhelming sense of relief. It turns out the flybridge ignition/shutoff switch has to be in the off position for the lower helm ignition/shutoff switch to turn off. I must’ve left it in the on position last fall or one of my crew accidentally moved it.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. Now back to removing the Generator’s heat Exhange for service.