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Old 10-01-2021, 07:23 PM   #21
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Mermaid, do you think you could measure where the hole is so I can pinpoint where to drill?
Sure. The boat is in hurricane storage right now and I won’t see it again until November. Remind me if you don’t see another response pop up here.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:20 PM   #22
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Can’t we just build some sort of “slide-out tray” and put the genny on that so when it’s time to do maintenance, we can just “unlatch” it so to speak and pull it forward?


I was told that the generator on my 2004 MS 400 is actually mounted to the “quiet box” and that the “quiet box” is somehow mounted to the shelf over the bilge. Question: Has anyone successfully found and loosened the mounting screws that hold the “quiet box” to the shelf? My mechanic thinks that generator should somehow slide out a bit once the mounting screws have been loosened. Any help will go along way as I have taken all 4 of the sound shields off and not yet found the mounting screws.
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Old 11-11-2021, 08:48 AM   #23
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I was told that the generator on my 2004 MS 400 is actually mounted to the “quiet box” and that the “quiet box” is somehow mounted to the shelf over the bilge. Question: Has anyone successfully found and loosened the mounting screws that hold the “quiet box” to the shelf? My mechanic thinks that generator should somehow slide out a bit once the mounting screws have been loosened. Any help will go along way as I have taken all 4 of the sound shields off and not yet found the mounting screws.
Tom, it sounds like you figured out how to get the sound shield off. Now that it is off, you still can't access the fill cap without pulling the genny a bit? Are you planning on putting the cover back on later?
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Old 11-11-2021, 08:55 AM   #24
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One can easily remove the filler cap once the sound shield is off, however a bit tight. If you can't turn it... need to push down to turn, you can put a large vise grip or channel lock to turn while you push down with the other hand. Remove it occasionally so it doesn't get hard to remove.



And, yes, easy to swing the genny out but not really necessary. but to do so, one needs to remove three of the four bolts than hold it in place.



I'm 6 ft, and can fairly easily access whatever needed from the starboard side with the battery removed. Change hoses, belts, etc. The impeller can be accessed pretty easy from the front.



Yes, it's tight. Yes, get rid of the sound shield.
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Old 11-11-2021, 09:03 AM   #25
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Tom, it sounds like you figured out how to get the sound shield off. Now that it is off, you still can't access the fill cap without pulling the genny a bit? Are you planning on putting the cover back on later?


Once I get it repaired, I plan to put all the sound shields back on including the hard to remove top shield. Since the screws that hold the top shield are so hard to access, I hoping that jamming a couple tennis balls up there will work to safely hold the shield in place.
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Old 11-11-2021, 09:43 AM   #26
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Once I get it repaired, I plan to put all the sound shields back on including the hard to remove top shield. Since the screws that hold the top shield are so hard to access, I hoping that jamming a couple tennis balls up there will work to safely hold the shield in place.

Leave it off, it doesn't do much other than cause delayed maintenance issues. Take the frame off too and throw it away.
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Old 11-12-2021, 08:23 PM   #27
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Additional issues with the unit.

Great discussion here, You guys are all over it.

The genny on my 08 MS 400 runs perfect with at flick of a switch. I really love her.

The PO cut the hole in the cockpit floor so access to the coolant cap is fairly easy. It’s probably time for a routine coolant change.

It’s pretty easy keeping up with oil changes and she has just over 300 hours on the clock. Impeller maintenance and heat exchanger inspections are a breeze too.

A couple of issues give me fits:

The pencil zinc faces to port and down at about the 8:00 position on the heat exchanger. The real bugger is to access the zinc I have to remove a motor mount to get any tools on it. I’m a pretty good mechanic but this one has me stumped. I have been removing the motor mount every 6 months or so to replace the zinc as I can’t figger another solution.. What a PITA!

Only other issue is on last inspection I noticed one of the straps holding the heat exchanger in place is busted. I installed temporary fix to keep it from rattling around and destroying itself and the flow switch mentioned. I’ll replace the straps if I can find them or fabricate as required. My concern here is the design is not up to the task and vibration fatigue will break it again.

Otherwise she’s golden.

Any ideas how to solve or mitigate theses issues?

I’ll start a new thread if this one is too far off the rails.
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Old 11-15-2021, 11:28 AM   #28
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Great discussion here, You guys are all over it.

The genny on my 08 MS 400 runs perfect with at flick of a switch. I really love her.

The PO cut the hole in the cockpit floor so access to the coolant cap is fairly easy. It’s probably time for a routine coolant change.

It’s pretty easy keeping up with oil changes and she has just over 300 hours on the clock. Impeller maintenance and heat exchanger inspections are a breeze too.

A couple of issues give me fits:

The pencil zinc faces to port and down at about the 8:00 position on the heat exchanger. The real bugger is to access the zinc I have to remove a motor mount to get any tools on it. I’m a pretty good mechanic but this one has me stumped. I have been removing the motor mount every 6 months or so to replace the zinc as I can’t figger another solution.. What a PITA!

Only other issue is on last inspection I noticed one of the straps holding the heat exchanger in place is busted. I installed temporary fix to keep it from rattling around and destroying itself and the flow switch mentioned. I’ll replace the straps if I can find them or fabricate as required. My concern here is the design is not up to the task and vibration fatigue will break it again.

Otherwise she’s golden.

Any ideas how to solve or mitigate theses issues?

I’ll start a new thread if this one is too far off the rails.

Odd.


My Zinc faces about 1:00 rather than 8:00 like yours. Access to it was one of the main reasons I took off the sound shield frame, without it I can change the zinc in about 5 minutes. Belt adjustment is also way easier. I guess you can't rotate the HE because of the way the hoses attach to it. Maybe you could remove the HE and have a machine shop tap in a new place for the zinc? I saw a thread somewhere for someone who did that. Maybe it was on the Stella Blue site?



Not sure about the straps, but thanks for the tip, I'll look at mine more closely now.


One other issue when doing a coolant change is that a couple of the drains are so low that it is impossible to get the coolant out of them without making a big mess. I've considered sucking the old coolant into a shop vac as it drains out, but I'm concerned about the safety hazzard of that. Anybody know if coolant is flammable?
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Old 11-15-2021, 04:43 PM   #29
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Well I bit the bullet this past weekend and "attempted" to remove the sound enclosure so I would be able to change the coolant. I seem to have less overhead clearance than some others, something like 1/4" or so. Since the sound cover is constructed before the deck is put on the boat, many of the fasteners cannot be reached easily. But, by prying and cutting I did get the frame parts off across the top at the front and right side, and also got the vertical pillars off on the right end, both the one closer to the bulkhead and the one aftward.

I also managed to unscrew all four screws holding the lid down.

So here I am with the lid loose and able to move a couple inches the the right and toward me, but as the top crosspiece closest to the bulkhead is still in place, I can't move the lead in that direction.

Unfortunately, the lid cannot be removed because there seems to be various hoses and possibly other components that are sticking up into the lid (and the sound insulation thereby attached) which leaves me with a "floating" lid that I can't get out without breaking something. I only have about a quarter of an inch clearance, which isn't enough to lift the lid up to remove.

So, after two days of struggling, I fell back to re-group. I am almost out of ideas.

For my next attempt I am going to see if I can locate three of the four screws holding the base to the shelf, which may allow me to swivel the genny towards me and, with luck, I can get the lid off. I am not holding out hope that it will give me any more clearance, though.

For all of you who have removed the sound enclosure, did you encounter this problem and how did you solve it?
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Old 11-17-2021, 02:58 PM   #30
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Hey Gary,


I worked with my mechanic to get my shield off. He used a bottle jack and carefully raised the cockpit deck enough to slide the top cover off. There is some flex there.


There is a vent hose that was going through the lid that he left in place. I will be back down at the boat after Thanksgiving, I can take pics of my Genset if it helps. Sorry to make you wait that long.



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Old 11-17-2021, 10:58 PM   #31
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The bottle jack is a great idea. Every boat should have one. I bought one at Harbor Freight for $5 several years ago. I used it a lot to remove window glass, and sometimes frames, on my Hatteras before it finally blew out. Heck, it was only $5. I got my money’s worth over and over.

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Hey Gary,


I worked with my mechanic to get my shield off. He used a bottle jack and carefully raised the cockpit deck enough to slide the top cover off. There is some flex there.


There is a vent hose that was going through the lid that he left in place. I will be back down at the boat after Thanksgiving, I can take pics of my Genset if it helps. Sorry to make you wait that long.



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Old 11-18-2021, 09:55 AM   #32
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Hey Gary,


I worked with my mechanic to get my shield off. He used a bottle jack and carefully raised the cockpit deck enough to slide the top cover off. There is some flex there.


There is a vent hose that was going through the lid that he left in place. I will be back down at the boat after Thanksgiving, I can take pics of my Genset if it helps. Sorry to make you wait that long.



Doug
Thanks a bunch Doug. I had contemplated the idea of jacking the deck a bit but was afraid of breaking something. I am heading to the boat on Sunday and I'll bring a jack. Do you recall where you placed the jack? I am also bringing down an oscillating cutting tool so I can cut away the rest of the frame closest to the bulkhead.

As for the vent hose through the lid...do you mean there's a hole in the lid with a hose coming out of it? I guess that would explain why I can slide he lid in any direction more than a few feet.
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Old 11-22-2021, 11:24 AM   #33
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Thanks a bunch Doug. I had contemplated the idea of jacking the deck a bit but was afraid of breaking something. I am heading to the boat on Sunday and I'll bring a jack. Do you recall where you placed the jack? I am also bringing down an oscillating cutting tool so I can cut away the rest of the frame closest to the bulkhead.

As for the vent hose through the lid...do you mean there's a hole in the lid with a hose coming out of it? I guess that would explain why I can slide he lid in any direction more than a few feet.

We put the jack just to starboard of the generator, close to the stb stringer and on top of some 2x8 blocks to lift it up and distribute the load.


I honestly don't recall exactly what the top of the enclosure looked like, but yes, I remember it had a vent hose through it. Don't take that as gospel though. We also left the port "panel," the part with the breaker and digital display, in place. It's hard to explain but easy to see. I will take some pics as soon as I get back to the boat.



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Old 11-22-2021, 06:38 PM   #34
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We put the jack just to starboard of the generator, close to the stb stringer and on top of some 2x8 blocks to lift it up and distribute the load.


I honestly don't recall exactly what the top of the enclosure looked like, but yes, I remember it had a vent hose through it. Don't take that as gospel though. We also left the port "panel," the part with the breaker and digital display, in place. It's hard to explain but easy to see. I will take some pics as soon as I get back to the boat.



Doug
Well, I got the lid off this morning by using a bottle jack like you said. I put a board down on the hull in front of the genny, about even with the left vertical pillar, and, with the jack and a short 2 by 4, I was able to get about 3/4 of an inch, which was all I needed. I probably spent 12-15 hours all together just to get the cover off, but I am really happy now with the access and now I can change the coolant.

Your tip made all the difference, Doug, thanks so much!
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Old 11-23-2021, 11:37 AM   #35
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Well, I got the lid off this morning by using a bottle jack like you said. I put a board down on the hull in front of the genny, about even with the left vertical pillar, and, with the jack and a short 2 by 4, I was able to get about 3/4 of an inch, which was all I needed. I probably spent 12-15 hours all together just to get the cover off, but I am really happy now with the access and now I can change the coolant.

Your tip made all the difference, Doug, thanks so much!



Hey Gary,


I'm super glad it worked out! I'd like to say the jack was my idea, but I learned it from Eric at Dockside Marine in Carrabelle. He is the best mechanic I have ever met.


I think you will love having the cover off, it makes taking care of the gen-set so much easier. Sorry for the unsolicited advice, but now that the cover is off, clean up the rust and do a paint touch up. There is likely some rust/corrosion that was hidden by the sound box. I believe that the sound box causes some corrosion because it traps moisture and hides potential issues.


Do you notice a big difference sound wise?
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Old 11-23-2021, 11:59 AM   #36
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Hey Gary,


I'm super glad it worked out! I'd like to say the jack was my idea, but I learned it from Eric at Dockside Marine in Carrabelle. He is the best mechanic I have ever met.


I think you will love having the cover off, it makes taking care of the gen-set so much easier. Sorry for the unsolicited advice, but now that the cover is off, clean up the rust and do a paint touch up. There is likely some rust/corrosion that was hidden by the sound box. I believe that the sound box causes some corrosion because it traps moisture and hides potential issues.


Do you notice a big difference sound wise?
I won't know if there's a sound difference until spring, right now she is in the water under a shed and winterized. I think most of the noise comes from the exhaust, so I don't expect a big change. I'll consider sound insulation on the roof of the lazarette if it gets too annoying. Thanks again for the tip, made my day when I got the SOB off.
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Old 11-24-2021, 10:17 AM   #37
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I won't know if there's a sound difference until spring, right now she is in the water under a shed and winterized. I think most of the noise comes from the exhaust, so I don't expect a big change. I'll consider sound insulation on the roof of the lazarette if it gets too annoying. Thanks again for the tip, made my day when I got the SOB off.


Hey Gary and Doug,

Still wondering if the generator will swivel in place. Would appreciate if anyone out there knows the location of the screws or bolts that hold the Generator to the shelf below.

Still haven’t taken the frame apart yet, but plan to do so over next few months. Unlike Gary, my boat will stay in the water.
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Old 11-24-2021, 02:30 PM   #38
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Hi Gary. The enclosure removal may be in my future. Did you cut off the stern upper horizontal frame member at the electrical panel? Did you see any issues doing that? Thanks. Paul
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Old 11-24-2021, 05:00 PM   #39
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Hi Gary. The enclosure removal may be in my future. Did you cut off the stern upper horizontal frame member at the electrical panel? Did you see any issues doing that? Thanks. Paul
Hi Paul,

I recommend you proceed like so if you want the whole enclosure removed:

-Stock up on your favorite mind-numbing substance, booze, weed, whatever.
-Secure these tools: Socket set, wrench set (metric and SAE), huge screwdriver or prybar, hack saw blade with handle (not the frame handle, the other kind), bottle jack, 15" or so long 2x4, side cutters, vise grips, headlamp/small flashlight
-Take a hit
-Remove the battery and remove or move aside the strainer.
-Remove as many screws as you can that hold the pillars/frame together. That wont be nearly enough to get it apart, but it helps loosen things up.
-Look up at the lid from underneath. You'll see four 2 inch machine screws that hold the lid to the frame. The only way I could get them out was by grabbing the screw itself from underneath with vise grips. Once you get them loose a bit they will unscrew easily, but they are so long you may not be able to remove them from the lid. The ones you can't remove will be in your way for the rest of the operation unless you can cut them off.
-Take another hit
-Start removing what I call the frame. This is comprised of the corner pillars and the top header piece. You will probable have to break them apart as the screws that hold them together are blind to you. (The pillars and top frame are aluminum, the lid is steel.) I did remove this frame piece from where it connects to the member at the electrical panel, mainly by breaking it. I think it needs to be removed to get the lid out, but if you have a couple millimeters of extra clearance maybe you'll be lucky and can leave the frame intact. I think the lid is the issue, if you can get that off without tearing the whole enclosure apart that might be the way to go.
-If you can get the frame off in less that a couple hours you are doing better than me. I spent half the time staring at the damn thing wondering what to do next.
-I also unbolted the lower side panel on the right side and tossed it. It screws into threaded inserts in the starboard base which is underneath the genny and on top of the shelf.
-I had about 1/4 inch of clearance above the lid so I couldn't raise the lid enough to clear some hoses and the lifting brackets. You might be able to get the lid off now if you jack the deck up. I put a 1x6 on the hull and used a 2x4 about 15 inches long and was able to jack up the deck enough to get the lid off. I didn't figure this out until I spent a couple hours to remove the lifting lugs and the top, horizontal frame member closest to the bulkhead.
I also spent a good deal of time trying to rip out the insulation in the lid so as to clear the hoses on top of the engine, but you might not need to do that. That rear top frame was a bear to get off. I ended up using brute force and broke the ears that was holding it on.
-Take a big hit

I did some things that maybe I didn't have to do, not knowing about the whole jacking idea and not knowing how the enclosure was put together. If it had to do it over, I would try this first:
-Remove the 3 panels, and the 4 screws holding down the lid to the frame.
-Apply the jack and see if I can get the lid off. If you can, you probably don't need to remove the other frame components.

I still wanted the frame off as well to give better access to everything, but I was a major effort and I probably would have left it alone as long as I got the lid off. Now that I say that, I don't think the lid would have come off with the front, top frame in place though; not enough clearance.
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Old 11-24-2021, 05:24 PM   #40
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Thanks for the detail Gary. Paul
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