Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-01-2021, 03:36 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
City: Long Beach Ca
Vessel Name: Island Hopper also, Freebird
Vessel Model: 1966 Californian, also 1997 Mainship 350
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 240
Mainship 350/390 anchor chain and rode

Good morning and Happy New Year.

To those of you with the 350/390. What size anchor chain and line do you use?
I recently purchased and 1997/350 it has a Lewmar Concept 1 windlass. 22lb Danforth style anchor and 5/16 HT chain spliced to what appears to be 1/2 three strand nylon line. It is old and worn.

The gypsy on the windlass is designed for 5/16 HT chain and either 1/2" or 5/8" three strand line.

I am thinking of going with new 5/8' three strand and doing a rope splice to the existing 5/16 chain.

What are you using?
thanks
Jim
__________________
Advertisement

jclays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2021, 03:59 PM   #2
Valued Technical Contributor
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,680
What you propose doing should work fine, but 5/8" is a little heavy to handle. 9/16" also works fine and is consistent with the WLL (working load limit) of the chain and is in the middle of your windlass rode capability. 1/2" is a little light.

David
__________________

DavidM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2021, 09:33 AM   #3
Veteran Member
 
sailorskip's Avatar
 
City: Tampa, FL
Vessel Name: Blooper
Vessel Model: 2004 Mainship 400T
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 29
The gypsy is probably the standard one Mainship used, which is set up for 5/8" 3-strand and 5/16" chain. At 22lb., your anchor seems small for the size of your boat. On my Mainship 400, I use a 20kg/44 lb. anchor.
sailorskip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2021, 10:08 AM   #4
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorskip View Post
The gypsy is probably the standard one Mainship used, which is set up for 5/8" 3-strand and 5/16" chain. At 22lb., your anchor seems small for the size of your boat. On my Mainship 400, I use a 20kg/44 lb. anchor.
I agree that the anchor seems undersized, unless you don't plan to do much overnight anchoring. if replacing the anchor, I would also consider a more modern design as well as more weight. 1/2" line is also pretty light, 5/8" should be fine.
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 04:29 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Cartouche's Avatar
 
City: Kingston Ontario
Vessel Name: Cartouche
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by jclays View Post
Good morning and Happy New Year.

To those of you with the 350/390. What size anchor chain and line do you use?
I recently purchased and 1997/350 it has a Lewmar Concept 1 windlass. 22lb Danforth style anchor and 5/16 HT chain spliced to what appears to be 1/2 three strand nylon line. It is old and worn.

The gypsy on the windlass is designed for 5/16 HT chain and either 1/2" or 5/8" three strand line.

I am thinking of going with new 5/8' three strand and doing a rope splice to the existing 5/16 chain.

What are you using?
thanks
Jim
5/16th Chain (150ft Very important) 9/16th 3 strand with a 15Kg Rocna Vulcan she holds every time at 8-10 to 1 ratio depending on Wind
__________________
Joanne & Edward Billing
M/V Cartouche Mainship 390
Kingston 1000 Islands
Cartouche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 04:40 PM   #6
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartouche View Post
5/16th Chain (150ft Very important) 9/16th 3 strand with a 15Kg Rocna Vulcan she holds every time at 8-10 to 1 ratio depending on Wind
Why is the 150 ft of chain so important? Depending on where you are anchoring, a boat's length of chain is usually sufficient for a chain/rope rode. Also, some new tests of anchor types here:

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...horsSandAndMud
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 03:33 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Cartouche's Avatar
 
City: Kingston Ontario
Vessel Name: Cartouche
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by backinblue View Post
Why is the 150 ft of chain so important? Depending on where you are anchoring, a boat's length of chain is usually sufficient for a chain/rope rode. Also, some new tests of anchor types here:

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...horsSandAndMud
10-1 in 10 ft of water is 100ft of chain, 150ft uses up pretty quickly if the wind pipes up. I came from the sailboat world and it works well I used to go with 7 to 1 in the sailboat but with the windage of a trawler 10-1 is the minimum I go, and allows for a great nights sleep. Cheers
__________________
Joanne & Edward Billing
M/V Cartouche Mainship 390
Kingston 1000 Islands
Cartouche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 03:44 PM   #8
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartouche View Post
10-1 in 10 ft of water is 100ft of chain, 150ft uses up pretty quickly if the wind pipes up. I came from the sailboat world and it works well I used to go with 7 to 1 in the sailboat but with the windage of a trawler 10-1 is the minimum I go, and allows for a great nights sleep. Cheers
Wow, I don't know anyone that goes 10-1 in anchorages around here. 4-1 is probably more common. I wasn't saying that you don't need 150' of rode, but rather that you could do with less chain if you have a combo chain/nylon rode.
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 04:17 PM   #9
Member
 
City: Prudence Island, RI
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 24
I'd check to see if the windlass can handle 8 plaited rode. Much easier to handle and store than 3 strand. I don't see why a windlass that was designed for 3 strand wouldn't work just as well with same size plaited rode.

Agree with comment that a 22lb Danforth style is pretty small for your boat. I have a similar size trawler and use a 44lb Vulcan. Almost went for the 50lb version. The only anchor of about 22lb size that seems adequate would be a Fortress.
IslandTractor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 04:44 PM   #10
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 516
Agree that 8 plait or 3 strand should probably work. My windless is spec'd for either. Not everyone splices 8 plait. I bought new rode last season from Miami cordage and although their service is outstanding, I has a bad experience with their 8 plait. It seemed too soft and the windless chewed though it when it slipped and almost broke. The rode it replaced was also 8 plait with no issue. Miami was happy to do a no-charge replacement with their treated 3-strand which is much tougher, but also much stiffer. I'm still not sure how well it will work out in the long run. Only used it a few times near the end of the season.
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 06:19 PM   #11
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 17,641
I’m using 5/8ths “Brait” and highly recommend it.

How many times have you used the Danforth anchor?
If numerous does it set readily?
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 09:14 PM   #12
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,669
5/8 brait and 5/16 chain on my MS 400 as well. I really love the brait and it has held up well in my windlass gypsy. After 15 years, I was seeing some rust on the last link of chain under the rope to chain splice, so I cut that link out (turned out there was still a ton of metal left, but I sleep better now) then end to ended the rope and did a new splice. Splicing brait is kind of a pain and took me a while and two tries. It's not as pretty as the original splice, but it works.


In reference to Cartouche's post about 10 to 1 scope, I often do that as well. Notice that he doesn't include the height of the bow to the waterline in his calculations, so the way many people calculate it is more like 7 or 8 to 1. I find it easier to not worry about the bow height and just go by water depth. I often anchor in less than 10 feet, so the difference between 7 to 1 and 10 to 1 is 15 or 20 feet, no big deal either way. If I was in 40 feet I could see 4 or 5 to 1 if I could get away with it, but in 6 or 7 feet it's just as easy to go 10 to 1.


If you anchored in 6 feet of water would you really put out 24 feet of rode? I don't think most people would.
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 12:21 PM   #13
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 516
Not really understanding why depth should affect your rode scope. It is the angle of the rode that is important. If you are not going to add in the height of your bow when doing the math, then maybe that makes sense, because bow height become less significant as you get deeper. If you put out 24 ft in 6' of water and your bow is 6' high, you are only at 2:1. I prefer to always add my bow height the true depth (not depth under keel) and then decide on scope. Generally I go 4 to 5 unless there is expected to be some decent wind and I'll adjust up accordingly. I wouldn't go more than 7 unless a serious storm was coming. Unless you are in a very empty anchorage, too much scope could cause swinging problems with other boats.
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 10:48 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Cartouche's Avatar
 
City: Kingston Ontario
Vessel Name: Cartouche
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by backinblue View Post
Wow, I don't know anyone that goes 10-1 in anchorages around here. 4-1 is probably more common. I wasn't saying that you don't need 150' of rode, but rather that you could do with less chain if you have a combo chain/nylon rode.
I Recommend (If asked) that all chain for an overnight stay is the way to go, My rode only comes out if for some reason I have to anchor in deep water 20ft plus and is not intended for overnight, Thoughts on this is a very personal thing - and I bow to anyone's belief in how to Anchor, Just remember that in a 25knot blow in the middle of the night - is not the time to realize you should have bought that extra chain as I watch you swing and I sit plum. I have broken loose to many times in the early years due to not being able to afford to do it right.
__________________
Joanne & Edward Billing
M/V Cartouche Mainship 390
Kingston 1000 Islands
Cartouche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 10:51 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Cartouche's Avatar
 
City: Kingston Ontario
Vessel Name: Cartouche
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post
5/8 brait and 5/16 chain on my MS 400 as well. I really love the brait and it has held up well in my windlass gypsy. After 15 years, I was seeing some rust on the last link of chain under the rope to chain splice, so I cut that link out (turned out there was still a ton of metal left, but I sleep better now) then end to ended the rope and did a new splice. Splicing brait is kind of a pain and took me a while and two tries. It's not as pretty as the original splice, but it works.


In reference to Cartouche's post about 10 to 1 scope, I often do that as well. Notice that he doesn't include the height of the bow to the waterline in his calculations, so the way many people calculate it is more like 7 or 8 to 1. I find it easier to not worry about the bow height and just go by water depth. I often anchor in less than 10 feet, so the difference between 7 to 1 and 10 to 1 is 15 or 20 feet, no big deal either way. If I was in 40 feet I could see 4 or 5 to 1 if I could get away with it, but in 6 or 7 feet it's just as easy to go 10 to 1.


If you anchored in 6 feet of water would you really put out 24 feet of rode? I don't think most people would.
You are so correct Distance from Bow must be added into the equation, my 10-1 is 8ft passed the Chain marker, 100ft is 108ft out
__________________
Joanne & Edward Billing
M/V Cartouche Mainship 390
Kingston 1000 Islands
Cartouche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 11:01 AM   #16
Member
 
City: Prudence Island, RI
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartouche View Post
I Recommend (If asked) that all chain for an overnight stay is the way to go, My rode only comes out if for some reason I have to anchor in deep water 20ft plus and is not intended for overnight, Thoughts on this is a very personal thing - and I bow to anyone's belief in how to Anchor, Just remember that in a 25knot blow in the middle of the night - is not the time to realize you should have bought that extra chain as I watch you swing and I sit plum. I have broken loose to many times in the early years due to not being able to afford to do it right.
A 25knot "blow" is exactly the situation that you'd want both chain AND nylon rode out. The nylon provides added stretch after the catenary in the chain is bar tight. Of course a nylon snubber can be substituted if you have an all chain rode but the nylon portion of the chain/rope rode will serve just as well and doesn't require setting up. It also allows you, should the wind pick up unexpectedly, to very quickly let out more scope, while using a snubber would require time to first remove and then reset the snubber. Which would you rather do at O dark thirty on a stormy night?
IslandTractor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 11:09 AM   #17
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 516
I have never had an all-chain rode and prefer the chain/nylon combo for the reasons stated. If you intend to go that way, I would not have 150' of chain. More like 50' would be sufficient for most, but it depends on where you are anchoring. Also, reducing weight that you are carrying on the boat is another good reason.
backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 11:10 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Cartouche's Avatar
 
City: Kingston Ontario
Vessel Name: Cartouche
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandTractor View Post
A 25knot "blow" is exactly the situation that you'd want both chain AND nylon rode out. The nylon provides added stretch after the catenary in the chain is bar tight. Of course a nylon snubber can be substituted if you have an all chain rode but the nylon portion of the chain/rope rode will serve just as well and doesn't require setting up. It also allows you, should the wind pick up unexpectedly, to very quickly let out more scope, while using a snubber would require time to first remove and then reset the snubber. Which would you rather do at O dark thirty on a stormy night?
If all chain obviously a chain hook needs to be linked to transfer load from Windlass to a Samson post / cleat I use a 5/8th dock line connected to hook and Samson post, (as i said this is a personal thing what works for you works for you, and I can assure you what works for me works well, Just sharing my experiences) Cheers
__________________
Joanne & Edward Billing
M/V Cartouche Mainship 390
Kingston 1000 Islands
Cartouche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 12:22 PM   #19
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 17,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by backinblue View Post
I have never had an all-chain rode and prefer the chain/nylon combo for the reasons stated. If you intend to go that way, I would not have 150' of chain. More like 50' would be sufficient for most, but it depends on where you are anchoring. Also, reducing weight that you are carrying on the boat is another good reason.
B & B where’d you come from?
I’ve been preach’in that for many years.
And the weight you refer to is at the skinny end (of the boat) .. least able to support it.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 01:07 PM   #20
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
B & B where’d you come from?
I’ve been preach’in that for many years.
And the weight you refer to is at the skinny end (of the boat) .. least able to support it.
Thanks Eric. I'm barely a year on TF, but a boater most of my life and always found a chain/nylon rode to work well without having to carry the weight of 100's of feet of chain, especially on a sailboat. I know some will disagree and swear that chain is the only way to go, but for me, there are a number of advantages to having some chain and then a good deal of nylon rode. I should also note that my previous 3 boats did not have a windlass, so all chain would have been very difficult to deal with.
__________________

backinblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×