Hydraulic Fluid Q

[Bay Retriever]

The hydraulic fluid line on my 2004 Mainship 400 is showing air trapped in the line. I’m also experiencing some ‘wanky’ steering episodes. Can’t find anything in my Mainship Manual other than reference to Seastar hyrdraulic steering system in the Underwater Gear.

How do you bleed the hydraulic system and properly fill additional fluid?

T MacDonnell
Bay Retriever
2004 Mainship 400

 

[Solly]

Try 1 of these..
https://www.google.com/search?q=ble...0l6j0i390l2.5883j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[diver dave]

That pix looks like a bleeder hose attached to the two "T"'s. I think you are supposed to disconnect one end, at a time, to effect the bleeding operation. Since the valves should be shut, air in that clear line is a non-issue.
WHat is "wanky"? If the wheel is slipping, that is a good indication of air in the lines.

 

[Bay Retriever]

That pix looks like a bleeder hose attached to the two "T"'s. I think you are supposed to disconnect one end, at a time, to effect the bleeding operation. Since the valves should be shut, air in that clear line is a non-issue.
WHat is "wanky"? If the wheel is slipping, that is a good indication of air in the lines.

Dan

Yes steeeing is slipping and autopilot often gets into trouble as well. I know there are you tube videos but none that focus on the Mainship. When I get back from this weekend’s cruise, I will try your approach.

T Mac

 

[boomerang]

Open both nuts with the bleeder hose and crank the wheel in both directions WHILE KEEPING THE RESERVOIR FULL until the air is cleared from the lines. The clear line helps to see bubbles in the fluid. 20-30 turns each way should do it.

 

[boomerang]

Now I've read you think your pilot pump is getting air too? Where is the pump? Do you have a lower station?. If the pump does in fact have air, you'll need to purge that too. I would do it first then proceed with the rest of the system.

 

[Keysdisease]

Sea Star Steering is not Mainship Sea Star steering, they are all the same systems. DiverDave called it correctly, the clear hose connects the 2 bleeder valves which are closed and bubbles in that line mean nothing.

Sea Star systems are non pressurized vented systems, and once initial bleeding is done there should be no further need for bleeding. If your A/P pump is a new install, that might call for bleeding, but unless you have a leak these systems are pretty maintenance free. If you have a lower station do NOT remove the cap on that helm, it is a non vented cap and all the oil from the helm above will leak all over. You should be able to see oil under the vented cap at the upper helm, if you can't see any add sparingly.

 

[GoneFarrell]

" if you can't see any add sparingly."

Tru dat.

I topped off my system at the fly bridge helm station cold. Went out for a spin, everything warmed up and the fly bridge helm station pissed oil from thermal expansion.
Lesson learned: check and top off warm system.

 

[boomerang]

Sea Star Steering is not Mainship Sea Star steering, they are all the same systems. DiverDave called it correctly, the clear hose connects the 2 bleeder valves which are closed and bubbles in that line mean nothing.

Sea Star systems are non pressurized vented systems, and once initial bleeding is done there should be no further need for bleeding. If your A/P pump is a new install, that might call for bleeding, but unless you have a leak these systems are pretty maintenance free. If you have a lower station do NOT remove the cap on that helm, it is a non vented cap and all the oil from the helm above will leak all over. You should be able to see oil under the vented cap at the upper helm, if you can't see any add sparingly.

The clear line helps keep the mess to a minimum. Open both bleeders and crank the wheel until no bubbles are present then close the bleeder valves. Yes, you can disconnect the hose and drop the open end into a bucket and do one side at a time if you want. That way works too but requires more fluid to complete the task.
I assure you I've done more than a few steering systems in the past!
I promise I know what I'm talking about!

 

[diver dave]

Sooo, bubbles exit one T and enter the other T?

 

[diver dave]

Sooo, bubbles exit one T and enter the other T during your purging?

 

[boomerang]

Yes. And end up in the helm reservoir.

 

[rgano]

I once filled my SeaStar system to the tippy top of the single steering station and soon discovered a bumpy feeling as I turned the wheel. You are supposed to leave a bit of air in there. The bumpiness was the lobs of the pump behind the wheel pulsing against the too-full system.

 

[Dougcole]

Just went through this when I rebuilt the cylinder on my 2005 Mainship 400, same exact cylinder as yours. From looking at your cylinder, my guess is that you are due for a rebuild and that you likely have a small leak or two somewhere.


I did the rebuild myself first time around, it held for a few weeks then started leaking again. After that I sent it off to steering solutions in Venice, FL. They did an amazing job, the cylinder looks and performs like brand new. It was about $400, including shipping. Well worth it.


Sea Star makes a fill kit, which includes a little fitting that screws into the fill port above the upper helm and the other end screws onto the end of the fluid bottle. West Marine carries it.



I made a funnel by cutting the bottom out of an old quart size oil bottle and screwed the fill kit to it. I find it easier to pour the fluid into the funnel than to have the fill kit attached to the fill bottle. Always fill from the port at the upper helm.


Since the rebuilt cylinder was empty when I reinstalled it, I figured I needed to displace a good bit of air. So I used the method Boomerang mentions, I put the end of the bleed hose into a clean bucket and opened one bleed screw at a time while my wife turned the helm. I captured the fluid that came out and poured it back into the jug.


Here is pic of my rebuilt cylinder.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Just went through this when I rebuilt the cylinder on my 2005 Mainship 400, same exact cylinder as yours. From looking at your cylinder, my guess is that you are due for a rebuild and that you likely have a small leak or two somewhere.


I did the rebuild myself first time around, it held for a few weeks then started leaking again. After that I sent it off to steering solutions in Venice, FL. They did an amazing job, the cylinder looks and performs like brand new. It was about $400, including shipping. Well worth it.


Sea Star makes a fill kit, which includes a little fitting that screws into the fill port above the upper helm and the other end screws onto the end of the fluid bottle. West Marine carries it.



I made a funnel by cutting the bottom out of an old quart size oil bottle and screwed the fill kit to it. I find it easier to pour the fluid into the funnel than to have the fill kit attached to the fill bottle. Always fill from the port at the upper helm.


Since the rebuilt cylinder was empty when I reinstalled it, I figured I needed to displace a good bit of air. So I used the method Boomerang mentions, I put the end of the bleed hose into a clean bucket and opened one bleed screw at a time while my wife turned the helm. I captured the fluid that came out and poured it back into the jug.


Here is pic of my rebuilt cylinder.

Doug

Thanks. You read my mind.
I will call them to find out about their turn around time. Might be an off season project cuz I’m really enjoying the boat this year after a weird Covid 1st year.
Hopefully it will also help with my wanky autopilot situation.


T Mac

 

[Dougcole]

Turn around time for me was less than a week. They were great.

 

[Comodave]

They rebuilt a steering cylinder for me. They shipped it the day after they received it. The only real time was the 2 way shipping.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Turn around time for me was less than a week. They were great.

Doug

BTW,

Did you ever find the leak or was the leak probably coming from the Seastar itself?

T MacDonnell

 

[Keysdisease]

https://www.boatid.com/seastar-solutions/seastar-solutions-cylinders-3246545419.html

 

[Dougcole]

Doug

BTW,

Did you ever find the leak or was the leak probably coming from the Seastar itself?

T MacDonnell

I never found a specific, obvious place that it was leaking, but I think the seals were bad. I noticed a very small but reoccurring bit of reddish, oily fluid in the laz along the outboard edge of the port stringer, just aft and below the genset. At first I thought it was diesel fuel from the generator or maybe the racor filter, but it didn't smell like diesel. Then I noticed that there was oil under the cylinder, not a lot but some. I put a clean diaper underneath it and confirmed that it was leaking. I think the fluid was running along the shelf in the laz and dripping through the lubber hole over the stringer.


After I got the leak fixed the mystery fluid along the stringer has not come back. Still not sure where the reddish tint came from.


If your steering is getting soft and you need to add fluid, I'd lay my money on the cylinder leaking. That's exactly what mine was doing.


A new cylinder is in the $1,000 range, so well worth the rebuild, in my opinion. Keysdisease's link is a different cylinder than mine, but maybe it would work.

 

[Portage_Bay]

..... Still not sure where the reddish tint came from......

If the system was filled with mil H-5606 fluid it is dyed red. H-5606 is an approved fluid according to Seastar.

 

[Bay Retriever]

I have been trying to bleed the system for about 2 hours now with a very patient brother in law. we are loosening one nut at a time and have the filler line and an inverted sea star hydraulic quart with top cut off at the upper helm. As we turn the wheel at the upper helm in one direction, we are getting a lot of air bubbles out the line by the hydraulic ram. And then we have repeated the process for the other side.
The problem is that once we re-tighen the bleeder nuts at the ram, the wheel at the upper helm is tight to one side and won't fo any further and will turn endlessly in the other direction.
What are we doing wrong here guys? Please respond as if you were telling your wife./the Admiral how to do it right.

T MacDonnell
Bay Retriever
2004 Mainship 400

 

[Bay Retriever]

Update: after cleaning up and lowering the upper helm station into it’s proper position, the wheel ended up turning 6 times in each direction. So, today I’m hoping to sea trial. Will report back later.

 

[kthoennes]

Boy, that's a lot of travel in the wheel. Mine is three and a half turns each side of straight rudder.

 

[Bay Retriever]

That’s about right. From center, three turns each way. 6 turns from extreme port to starboard, vice-versus.

 

[kthoennes]

Okay, I understand, we describing it differently but about the same total.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Doug

Thanks. You read my mind.
I will call them to find out about their turn around time. Might be an off season project cuz I’m really enjoying the boat this year after a weird Covid 1st year.
Hopefully it will also help with my wanky autopilot situation.


T Mac

Doug

I am on the hard for the next 6 weeks for a paint job and possible swim platform repair. So I am planning on the steering arm rebuild and will attempt to drain and remove the steering arm in the next few days before shipping out to Boat Steering Solutions in North Venice, FL. I plan to call them on Monday just to make sure they are still a reasonable alternative to buying a new one.

In the mean time, any recommendations for draining the hydraulic fluid and removing the steering arm would be much appreciated..

T MacDonnell

 

[Dougcole]

Doug

I am on the hard for the next 6 weeks for a paint job and possible swim platform repair. So I am planning on the steering arm rebuild and will attempt to drain and remove the steering arm in the next few days before shipping out to Boat Steering Solutions in North Venice, FL. I plan to call them on Monday just to make sure they are still a reasonable alternative to buying a new one.

In the mean time, any recommendations for draining the hydraulic fluid and removing the steering arm would be much appreciated..

T MacDonnell

It’s pretty easy. You don’t really have to drain the lines completely, i just unbolted them and zip tied the ends as high as I could in the laz. The cylinder will be full of fluid when you pull it out, so be careful that it doesn’t spill all over the laz. You can pour the fluid out of the bleed fittings after you get it out.

 

[Comodave]

Probably a good idea after you get it back together to flush out all the old fluid and start off with new fluid.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Probably a good idea after you get it back together to flush out all the old fluid and start off with new fluid.

Installed a rebuilt Hyde steering arm a few weeks ago. Not to hard to do by myself. Today, with a neighbor buddy, was able to flush out old fluid and refill with new fluid. Also got a lot of air out of the lines. It’s a two man job. Unfortunately, I have another 5/6 weeks on the hard as the swim platform is being repaired and the hull above the water line to the gunnies is being repainted.

T MACDONNELL
Bay Retriever
2004 Mainship 400