Driving from the fly bridge or not?

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. WK. One would hope so.

 

[Paul M]

It is interesting reading about the different comfort levels some have with regard to engine room checks. That is probably how it should be as I don't think there is an one size fits all answer. There are just too many different types of vessels and levels of experience and types of cruising to put everybody in the same bag.

For me, now over age 70, I have been boating most of my life and also I have over 20 years of military flying in both single and twin engine fixed wing aircraft and single engine helicopters. I always made a good pre-flight and post flight checks, but once airborne I had only instruments to rely on and it served me well. On a plane the failure of an engine or other major system it was a major event with what I consider to be far worse consequences than a similar failure on a boat. So I boat in similar fashion to how I flew. Good checks before and after a day's cruise and then relying on my instruments.

I must admit that twice I have had engine water pump impeller failures and my wife's sense of smell proved to be a much better indicator of an impending problem than the engine temperature gage. I also am admiting that now with the low cost remote cameras it makes sense to have one in the engine room so maybe I am "a changing with the times".

 

[Bigsfish]

Paul

I agree. I do like my cameras as I don't go in the hot noisy bilge when running unless something happens. I can sit at the helm and see four different views of the engines by only pushing a button. The one or other Garmin displays the scene for as long as I want. I must admit the cameras make me lazy. ?

 

[Nomad Willy]

One of the reasons we don't have carpets is acess to the engine, fuel selectors ect. Plus if I hear or otherwise sense something wrong I want to see below NOW.

 

[dhays]

One of the reasons we don't have carpets is acess to the engine, fuel selectors ect. Plus if I hear or otherwise sense something wrong I want to see below NOW.

Good point. We do have carpet on the saloon floor. I have 6 access hatches to the ER. 1 is direction over the genset so isn't that useful. One is on the forward end of the engine and is easy to get to and open. However, the others are covered by a rug that I think is a pain to move. This has been a point of contention between my wife and I.

It is quick and easy for me to check the filters and change the tanks, easy to see the front of the engine, where the oil filter, fuel filter, water pump, and sea-strainer are located. The exhaust, air filter, and dripless shaft seal, not so much.

 

[Art]

Good point. We do have carpet on the saloon floor. I have 6 access hatches to the ER. 1 is direction over the genset so isn't that useful. One is on the forward end of the engine and is easy to get to and open. However, the others are covered by a rug that I think is a pain to move. This has been a point of contention between my wife and I.

It is quick and easy for me to check the filters and change the tanks, easy to see the front of the engine, where the oil filter, fuel filter, water pump, and sea-strainer are located. The exhaust, air filter, and dripless shaft seal, not so much.

I'm lucky in that the two huge, gas-spring assisted easy lift hatch sides [whose leading edges meet together in center of salon sole] are each piano hinged on their outer edges. Although I've not tape measured the opening by length and width... my guestimate is the opening provided by both hatches [with no center beam] amounts to around 6' x 5'. Berber carpet lays uncut over recessed piano hinges and under trim that borders hatch edges. When closed the hinges are non apparent and the hatches other three edges are bordered with carpet trim.

When both are pulled open [and then standing upright] they provide grand expanse over the engines as well as fairly ez access to most other equipment; e.g. batt bank toward aft, two 100 gal tanks to either side and gen set toward bow.

Slotted teak wood walk-way between engines with stand-up room galore.

It is a bit of a stretch to get directly over top of the tranys and can also be same for topping off the rear most wet cells on batts.

There is also room in multiple areas of the engine compartment for relatively ez access to items such as pressure water pump, water heater, trim tab hydraulic pump and its reservoir, batt charger. etc

I've had a few marine professionals get into out Tolly's engine compartment for various reasons. Each mentioned the expansive room and great layout.

MOF... when Linda and I were first aboard this boat [and in a short time of looking we realized this was/is the boat for us] I was standing on the engine compartment's teak walk-way when we winked at one another.

The big, stand-up engine compartment is one of many reasons we own this 1977, 34' Tollycraft tri cabin.

 

[Peter B]

And maybe, just maybe, if he'd stayed at the helm, keeping a close eye on his oil pressure and temp gauges, instead of being bum up down below in the ER so much, and lulled into a false sense of security by all the engine checks, he might have picked the leak up soon enough to save the engine from seizing..?

Would you be of the same opinion if you were the owner of a Nordhavn 50 or 60 cruising from Brisbane to the Seychelles?

Absolutely..! Because it's the gauges which warn of impending disaster that really matters, not a few minor oil drips under the engine, or a bit of water in the bilge.

They tell what, if anything, is really happening to the engine that could hurt, as opposed to something that might. Checking for things that might be important is still good to do, but not every few minutes or even hours. Different when on an across ocean voyage, of course, but even then ER checks need only really be say 6-12 hourly in my book. However, I don't cross oceans...

 

[psneeld]

That to me shows inexperience with major engine issues.

The typical gauges usually tell of impending failure moments before, not far in advance that visual signasl could tell.

That is so far from my professional on the water experience I cannot even believe someone believes that gauges are the early warning devices.

And I am not talking drips that have been monitored....heck my engine loses about an ounce or two a day. Not what I am talking about....the sources are known and are not potential larger issues.

 

[rwidman]

That smacks of total inexperience with major engine issues. .............

There's not much you can do about "major engine issues" by just looking.

And as somebody mentioned earlier in this thread, you could look everything over and have a hose blow the minute you closed the hatch or door.

Obviously, everyone has their own comfort levels but I believe routine maintenance means that your engine is likely to make it from one anchorage or marina to the next.

We have gauges, we have warning lights and we have our hearing and feel for the boat. For me, that's enough. For someone else, that's their choice. It seems some folks would operate from the engine room if they could.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. WK. "There's not much you can do about "major engine issues" by just looking." I'm sorry, I beg to differ. I had a fan belt go at a most inopportune moment early in our ownership. There was a telltale black rubber dust stain on the side of the washing machine which the Admiral had notice but did not know the significance of. IF I had been informed, I could have serviced the belt thus avoiding a butt clenching emergency maneuver on one engine in extremely tight quarters that could have very easily ended up being more serious or fatal.

My BIL purchased a new to him boat a number of years back and had an ER fire while 25 miles off shore. A leaking oil line to the turbo was noted during the survey and was supposed to have been repaired. It wasn't. A quick visual would have spotted that and eliminated his $40K insurance claim. It was his good fortune that he is still alive. As a "new boat" gift, his son had given him 3 fire extinguishers with which he was able to douse the fire.

Anecdotal to be sure but true none the less.

 

[Peter B]

There's not much you can do about "major engine issues" by just looking.

And as somebody mentioned earlier in this thread, you could look everything over and have a hose blow the minute you closed the hatch or door.

Obviously, everyone has their own comfort levels but I believe routine maintenance means that your engine is likely to make it from one anchorage or marina to the next.

We have gauges, we have warning lights and we have our hearing and feel for the boat. For me, that's enough. For someone else, that's their choice. It seems some folks would operate from the engine room if they could.

Wes...I have a sneaky feeling, maybe...just maybe...some folk get a sort of endorphin rush, fueled by the paranoia generated fear, just sayin'..?

 

[BruceK]

Wes...I have a sneaky feeling, maybe...just maybe...some folk get a sort of endorphin rush, fueled by the paranoia generated fear, just sayin'..?

Now now Peter, online psychoanalysis has its dangers, the water is deep.
Of course Wes could station the Admiral in the ER. A pair of earmuffs, a/c running, drinks supply, a lock on the door, a line to the waste tank, a mobile VHF for messaging, what could possibly go wrong.

 

[Bigsfish]

BruceK

Now be carefu, anything is possible on the internet. LOL

 

[Codger2]

Because it's the gauges which warn of impending disaster that really matters, not a few minor oil drips under the engine, or a bit of water in the bilge.

I must admit that I, too, subscribe to Peter's faith in the gauges, After all, if they don't alert you to potential problems, why did the builder put them in the boat in the first place? In my flying days I developed a routine scan of the panel almost every minute as I certainly couldn't check the engine visually. My boat doesn't lend itself to hourly ER visual checks so i really rely on gauges and ER cameras most of the time.

 

[Britannia]

Here's a reason to do ER checks regularly in hazardous conditions. This can that contained hydraulic fluid was improperly stowed in the ER and came loose in very heavy weather in Chatham Sound. It became lodged next to the engine where a belt was busy sawing it in half. Fortunately we found it before it caused mayhem in 18' seas.

Richard

 

[Insequent]

Here's a reason to do ER checks regularly in hazardous conditions. This can that contained hydraulic fluid was improperly stowed in the ER and came loose in very heavy weather in Chatham Sound. It became lodged next to the engine where a belt was busy sawing it in half. Fortunately we found it before it caused mayhem in 18' seas.

Richard

Richard
Obviously a good catch, and I won't knock doing frequent ER checks although I personally don't do them on all trips.

But the two things that jumped out at me in your post were: 1. improperly stowed item in ER and 2. clearly no belt guards, or inadequate belt guards in place.

There was a boat, Great Harbour I think, that sank primarily because a battery was not properly secured and damaged a stuffing box. Sure an ER check might well have saved it. But so would securing the battery, and that's the better approach.

My take on all this ER routine is to get the ER in proper condition prior to a trip! I inspect before and just after startup and again just before and after shutdown. If doing a long run and its convenient, I take a peek into the ER. ie when in safe/easy navigation situation as I'm usually running solo. I do have 3 cameras in my ER, but not sure that they are ideally located and temp/smell is best checked in person. My boat is 35 yo but everything in the ER is under 4 yo. That also helps with comfort factor.

 

[Britannia]

Richard
Obviously a good catch, and I won't knock doing frequent ER checks although I personally don't do them on all trips.

But the two things that jumped out at me in your post were: 1. improperly stowed item in ER and 2. clearly no belt guards, or inadequate belt guards in place.

There was a boat, Great Harbour I think, that sank primarily because a battery was not properly secured and damaged a stuffing box. Sure an ER check might well have saved it. But so would securing the battery, and that's the better approach.

My take on all this ER routine is to get the ER in proper condition prior to a trip! I inspect before and just after startup and again just before and after shutdown. If doing a long run and its convenient, I take a peek into the ER. ie when in safe/easy navigation situation as I'm usually running solo. I do have 3 cameras in my ER, but not sure that they are ideally located and temp/smell is best checked in person. My boat is 35 yo but everything in the ER is under 4 yo. That also helps with comfort factor.

Yes - I said improperly stowed by definition - since it came loose. I now have almost nothing stored in the ER - all stored in the lazarette. The truth is that sometimes things we think are properly stowed, are in fact not. This was the second day of my delivery and I'll admit to being less aware of all of the possible issues in an engine room. My point is that, however well prepared we think we are, there is always something that can happen. ER checks won't catch everything but they are one of many ways to reduce risk. Just in the same way, as you point out, making sure the ER is in proper condition prior to a trip. Trust but verify! The layering of different safety approaches is what ultimately helps reduce risk.

As to the belt guards - you are right - there are none on the engine. The belt is in a location that it would be hard to brush up against. But apparently a loose jerry can is able to find it. I'll look into adding them. Thanks!

Richard

 

[Hotrod]

I truly believe that if engine rooms were easily accessible, aka walk in, most of the non sayers, would be looking in hourly, why not. When going intercoastal east coast, you cannot afford a breakdown, many runs daily are in tight channels, a few feet out, and you run aground. And God forbid, your coming in an inlet, and an engine shuts down, from a dirty filter, due to rough water all day, and your camara, could not see the vacuum gauge needle, or you did not think it was necessary to go, or just lazy, or tired. It's not like driving a car, you just do not just pull over, there are consequences , big ones.

 

[sunchaser]

I must admit that I, too, subscribe to Peter's faith in the gauges, After all, if they don't alert you to potential problems, why did the builder put them in the boat in the first place? In my flying days I developed a routine scan of the panel almost every minute as I certainly couldn't check the engine visually. My boat doesn't lend itself to hourly ER visual checks so i really rely on gauges and ER cameras most of the time.

Walt

Last year after crawling around the ER in the near twin to your vessel, I can only but agree with your rationale. As I recall the OA 65 we both covet indeed does have an ER you could virtually live in.

One of my buddies skippers a vessel where the ER has camera views identical to those as viewed from both helms. Yes, size does matter.

 

[Bigsfish]

All

It appears to me that there are some who think the inspection thing can not be overdone and can justify an inspection every few minutes. There are others who think even once a day inspection is too much. Somewhere in between is what is proper for YOU, that you can live with and still enjoy your trip.

Just my SSO.

 

[Art]

Here's a reason to do ER checks regularly in hazardous conditions. This can that contained hydraulic fluid was improperly stowed in the ER and came loose in very heavy weather in Chatham Sound. It became lodged next to the engine where a belt was busy sawing it in half. Fortunately we found it before it caused mayhem in 18' seas.

Richard

Richard... I'm just a bit confused [nothing new about that - lol].

Did the hydraulic fluid container come loose and get in contact with fan belt before you hit 18' seas... or... did the 18' seas tossing of boat break it loose? And, were you in 18' seas while checking engine room and finding the lose container? If so, how much fun is it to accomplish an engine room visit in 18' seas?

 

[Nomad Willy]

With all this time check'in the ER what great danger are we to overlook out the wheelhouse windows.

And forget about the FB. If something bad happens in the ER we'll just see smoke if we look aft or the boat will just stop.

This sounds a bit like anchor dragging. Marin sought out and thought he had the Supreme anchor that couldn't drag. No such thing of course.

Hasn't anyone said "**** happens" yet?

When we get to the skipper operating his boat from the ER we'll need to back up and talk about plan B. What happens if ...... then the alive and well paranoia will have us pulling a barge w Fisheries Supply on it.

 

[Bigsfish]

Eric

We are all boaters and know that **** never happens. ?

 

[Britannia]

Richard... I'm just a bit confused [nothing new about that - lol].

Did the hydraulic fluid container come loose and get in contact with fan belt before you hit 18' seas... or... did the 18' seas tossing of boat break it loose? And, were you in 18' seas while checking engine room and finding the lose container? If so, how much fun is it to accomplish an engine room visit in 18' seas?

The 18' seas caused the container to come loose. Yes - I was in the ER in 18' seas. The experience was surprisingly benign. Being at the waterline and about 1/3 of the way forward reduces the motion considerably. I had no problems with being down there. Obviously at one point the motion was enough to move the container, which the PO had left in a location that I now realize was not a good spot. My previous boat was a 36' sailboat. There was no "engine room" as such, and the concept of having anything other than an engine in there was foreign to me! Now I know better.

Fortunately I have never been seasick (looks for knock-on-wood-emoji)

Richard

 

[Art]

Fortunately I have never been seasick (looks for knock-on-wood-emoji)

Richard

Seasick has never crossed my path either! Nor has it my wife's!!


One of my daughters in law gets green just mentioning boats. Poor gal and... I feel for my son, cause he loves the water.

 

[sunchaser]

When we get to the skipper operating his boat from the ER we'll need to back up and talk about plan B. What happens if ...... then the alive and well paranoia will have us pulling a barge w Fisheries Supply on it.

Yup, Tesla and driverless Uber to the rescue. I will guarantee you that I spend less time on my ER checks than many spend fiddling with their latest gizmos associated with electronics. It seems a sign of the times, worry about the milliamps but not the heavy iron.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sunchaser,
Indeed.
The skippers of old were smart enough to not need all these toys. Not ne though. I'm a Sagitatarian and we're know for good luck. Should'a been dead quite a few years ago.

Re anchoring though I really do like that drag alarm. And Navamatics ... I guess I'm w most others here .. in w the new and out w the old.

 

[Bigsfish]

Eric

Not all new thing are good! Sure many are an improvement and that's good.

 

[dhays]

I learned inland navigation on saiboats back when a plastic cover for a paper chart was the height of new tech.

I really like the new stuff and never went to go back.

 

[LarryM]

I learned inland navigation on saiboats back when a plastic cover for a paper chart was the height of new tech.

I really like the new stuff and never went to go back.

+1 Roger That