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Old 12-23-2020, 03:00 PM   #141
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Many hybrid electric boats have already been built.

Yes, there are hybrid boats out there in the real world. But even amongst new builds, they're a small minority. The tech is rapidly improving, but in many ways, it's just not there yet. For some use cases, it's adequate, but for many, it's either just not practical or doesn't provide much benefit.
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Old 12-23-2020, 03:14 PM   #142
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Yes, there are hybrid boats out there in the real world. But even amongst new builds, they're a small minority. The tech is rapidly improving, but in many ways, it's just not there yet. For some use cases, it's adequate, but for many, it's either just not practical or doesn't provide much benefit.
Thanks for conceding there are many already in the real world. But nobody ever said they were the majority, so i dont know why you even mentioned that. But YOU did say, " not there yet". Here are some at Yachtworld: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2021/silent-55-3620904/

Then there are some in New Zealand, Herley , and some in the US, Hinckly, some in germany, Alva. In Holland, in Norway, , Finland, Sweden.
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Old 12-23-2020, 03:34 PM   #143
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Thanks for conceding there are many already in the real world. But nobody ever said they were the majority, so i dont know why you even mentioned that. But YOU did say, " not there yet". Here are some at Yachtworld: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/202...nt-55-3620904/

Then there are some in New Zealand, Herley , and some in the US, Hinckly, some in germany, Alva. In Holland, in Norway, , Finland, Sweden.

When I say "not there yet", I don't mean the tech doesn't exist. I mean that it hasn't reached a point of being affordable and practical for more than a narrow range of use cases. It'll get there at some point, but it hasn't yet.
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Old 12-23-2020, 03:48 PM   #144
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When I say "not there yet", I don't mean the tech doesn't exist. I mean that it hasn't reached a point of being affordable and practical for more than a narrow range of use cases. It'll get there at some point, but it hasn't yet.
Didnt even mention prices, but bogus point anyway since many million dollar + boats are sold. If you cant afford a Hinckley, or Alva, or Silent, or any of all those others, thats your problem, not the tech, or the companies that make them.
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Old 12-23-2020, 03:50 PM   #145
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Thanks for conceding there are many already in the real world. But nobody ever said they were the majority, so i dont know why you even mentioned that. But YOU did say, " not there yet". Here are some at Yachtworld: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/202...nt-55-3620904/

Then there are some in New Zealand, Herley , and some in the US, Hinckly, some in germany, Alva. In Holland, in Norway, , Finland, Sweden.
Can pick dozens of far more capable and proven "real world" cruisers than that one that would leave over a million in the cruising kitty to pay for running and maintenance.

Very piss poor performance (or lack of)

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Cruising ranges depend on load and power-generation variables. At around 5 knots, the 55 could cruise for 20 to 25 nautical miles with the A/C working. The top speed is probably around 14 knots, but for less than an hour. The Silent 55 that I got aboard in Spain had just completed a 70-nautical-mile passage between the closest bays of Mallorca and Ibiza. The passage took about 12 hours using only solar generation and stored battery power, at an average speed of 5.8 knots, Kohler said. Her diesel generator was not used at all, although on arrival, her batteries were almost empty

At an average 4-knot pace with the watermaker aboard, she’s virtually self-sustaining, Kohler says. She has the potential to achieve 100-nautical-mile days. With generator help at around 7 knots, she should manage 360 nautical miles before refilling her diesel tanks, which hold 159 gallons total.

https://www.yachtingmagazine.com/quiet-powercat/
A long way from being anything like a cruising vessel in my eyes.

What happens when they decide to use the watermaker or heaven forbid....electric cooker
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Old 12-23-2020, 03:51 PM   #146
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Didnt even mention prices, but bogus point anyway since many million dollar + boats are sold. If you cant afford a Hinckley, or Alva, or Silent, or any of all those others, thats your problem, not the tech, or the companies that make them.

Ah, but even in that price range, making one of those boats into a hybrid still drives the price up significantly compared to a conventional boat that's otherwise similar. That's where I'm going with the cost thing. It's not an issue of absolute cost so much as an issue of cost compared to other propulsion and electrical options.
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Old 12-23-2020, 03:53 PM   #147
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Didnt even mention prices, but bogus point anyway since many million dollar + boats are sold. If you cant afford a Hinckley, or Alva, or Silent, or any of all those others, thats your problem, not the tech, or the companies that make them.
My mistake, I thought we were talking cruising boats, not something you run around the bay for a couple of hours.
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Old 12-23-2020, 03:55 PM   #148
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But even amongst new builds, they're a small minority.
Frankly, I think you over-state the case when you use the word "small." They are an absolutely TEENY-TINY minority. Pick any random boat, in any random marina, and I would bet you that your odds of winning the Powerball are WAY higher than the odds that the boat you picked was electric powered!
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Old 12-23-2020, 03:57 PM   #149
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Ah, but even in that price range, making one of those boats into a hybrid still drives the price up significantly compared to a conventional boat that's otherwise similar. That's where I'm going with the cost thing. It's not an issue of absolute cost so much as an issue of cost compared to other propulsion and electrical options.
They are NOT "making them into hybrids", many are designed from first principles to be so. And the original point was not about cost at all , but whether a 110KwH lithium battery pack can fit into a boat, and ive shown , several times, that they can be, and indeed are.
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:01 PM   #150
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Frankly, I think you over-state the case when you use the word "small." They are an absolutely TEENY-TINY minority. Pick any random boat, in any random marina, and I would bet you that your odds of winning the Powerball are WAY higher than the odds that the boat you picked was electric powered!
The discussion was about that its posioble to put such battey pacs in, and the answer is ...yes. And the numbers of hybrid/electric boats is increasing, be they cruising ones, ferry boats, tug boats or the hige super yachts. That huge 'Yacht A' is a hybrid. Its more a mattercof some guys in this forum just not being familiar woth the topic.
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:02 PM   #151
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Didnt even mention prices, but bogus point anyway since many million dollar + boats are sold. If you cant afford a Hinckley, or Alva, or Silent, or any of all those others, thats your problem, not the tech, or the companies that make them.
All I can find on the boats you mention are a Hinckley runabout. Neither Alva nor Silent appear to have manufactured any boats. Links to cruising boats ?
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:06 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by David Ess View Post
The discussion was about that its posioble to put such battey pacs in, and the answer is ...yes. And the numbers of hybrid/electric boats is increasing, be they cruising ones, ferry boats, tug boats or the hige super yachts. That huge 'Yacht A' is a hybrid. Its more a mattercof some guys in this forum just not being familiar woth the topic.
But do they work as a cruising vessel?
Given the silent 55 example you produced, the answer is no.
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:07 PM   #153
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But do they work as a cruising vessel?
Given the silent 55 example you produced, the answer is no.
Have they actually built a Silent 55 ? I can't find one.
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:09 PM   #154
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Can pick dozens of far more capable and proven "real world" cruisers than that one that would leave over a million in the cruising kitty to pay for running and maintenance.

Very piss poor performance (or lack of)



A long way from being anything like a cruising vessel in my eyes.

What happens when they decide to use the watermaker or heaven forbid....electric cooker
Misleading. You didnt mention that it has 10Kw of solar panels, charging huge battery banks. And, you dont always run with aircon on, or not in all rooms, same with water maker. Scenario: middle of the Pacific ocean, the Silent 55 and your boat...neither with andy diesel left. The Silent will still go 100 miles a day.
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:11 PM   #155
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Have they actually built a Silent 55 ? I can't find one.
Yes...built already, as others have been. That you dont know about them is your problem.
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:13 PM   #156
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The Silent will still go 100 miles a day.
The Silent won't go anywhere if it hasn't even been built yet.
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:14 PM   #157
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Dear David Ess - you are a right-fighter. What is a right-fighter? It is someone to whom it is more important that they be right than correct. Someone who will defend their position against all reason and adversity. Someone who views the world as a zero-sum-game: the biggest expression of being right is that someone else must be wrong.

Example: not enough that you prefer electric to gas, but anyone who disagrees must be wrong - and you cherry pick in an infantile way to support your thin hypothesis.

Example: not enough that all agree that hybrids exist, but anyone who does not agree that they are prolific and common is wrong

Example: not enough that no one blindly accepts what you do about massive battery banks in a boat or that the numbers simply don't make sense. You chide people - quite knowledgeable people that they are wrong and that they don't know what their talking about.

You talk in terms of people conceding points to you or defacto agreeing with you. At best, people are tired of listening to you and simply give up. Your mind is made up and your ears are closed.

I, for one, will no longer feed this annoying troll. David, you were successful in having your very first thread shut-down and deleted based on your insolent online behavior. It will happen again sooner or later. All I can say is goodbye - any thread you are a part of is off limits to me. People on this forum often have disagreements - I have had spats with some on this very thread. But none have been as disagreeable, pompous, arrogant, and ignorant as you. You think you know what you're talking about but you don't

In my thinking, ignoring a troll is the only option here. Hasta la vista David.

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Old 12-23-2020, 04:21 PM   #158
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Dear David Ess - you are a right-fighter. What is a right-fighter? It is someone to whom it is more important that they be right than correct. Someone who will defend their position against all reason and adversity. Someone who views the world as a zero-sum-game: the biggest expression of being right is that someone else must be wrong.

Example: not enough that you prefer electric to gas, but anyone who disagrees must be wrong - and you cherry pick in an infantile way to support your thin hypothesis.

Example: not enough that all agree that hybrids exist, but anyone who does not agree that they are prolific and common is wrong

Example: not enough that no one blindly accepts what you do about massive battery banks in a boat or that the numbers simply don't make sense. You chide people - quite knowledgeable people that they are wrong and that they don't know what their talking about.

You talk in terms of people conceding points to you or defacto agreeing with you. At best, people are tired of listening to you and simply give up. Your mind is made up and your ears are closed.

I, for one, will no longer feed this annoying troll. David, you were successful in having your very first thread shut-down and deleted based on your insolent online behavior. It will happen again sooner or later. All I can say is goodbye - any thread you are a part of is off limits to me. People on this forum often have disagreements - I have had spats with some on this very thread. But none have been as disagreeable, pompous, arrogant, and ignorant as you. You think you know what you're talking about but you don't

In my thinking, ignoring a troll is the only option here. Hasta la vista David.

Peter
I didnt even say those things you attribute to me...like..."not enough people agree with me ,so theyre wrong". You wont find any such quote from me. I challenge you to. troll? Oh the irony.
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:26 PM   #159
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Misleading. You didnt mention that it has 10Kw of solar panels, charging huge battery banks. And, you dont always run with aircon on, or not in all rooms, same with water maker.

Not misleading at all, I posted a link to the article and posted all the performance details

Quote:
Scenario: middle of the Pacific ocean, the Silent 55 and your boat...neither with andy diesel left. The Silent will still go 100 miles a day.
Misleading
It wont get to the middle of the Pacific ocean, the article itself states that.....
Quote:
At an average 4-knot pace with the watermaker aboard, she’s virtually self-sustaining, Kohler says. She has the potential to achieve 100-nautical-mile days. With generator help at around 7 knots, she should manage 360 nautical miles before refilling her diesel tanks, which hold 159 gallons total.

360nm is a long way from the middle of the Pacific ocean and anyway, what sort of fool would run out of fuel in the middle of the Pacific?

Guessing it may be you thinking that you wont need diesel, the sun shines every day and you never need to use that electric stove or watermaker
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Old 12-23-2020, 04:26 PM   #160
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Hybrid trawlers seem to be a solution in search of a problem. Unlike cars (where there can be some braking energy recovery), a boat takes constant power for long periods of time. A pure hybrid would generate electricity then turn that into shaft horsepower at a net loss of at least 20% of the energy for long periods of time. An automobile-like hybrid (which drives the wheels directly from the ICE much of the time bypassing the hybrid feature) would require expensive additional equipment that would seldom be of much use.

The sailboat community has been experimenting with this for some time, having the advantage of an alternative source of propulsion, but other than some daysailers it has not taken off. There have been a few high profile attempts by production builders, all have failed and many of those boats converted back to diesel auxiliary. Even if the needed 10x improvement in battery technology appears, the charging problem remains.

I'd suggest beginning work on an anti-matter fuel cell. At about 25 teraWh/kg, a few grams would last the life of the boat.
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