Change electric stove, install gas stove

[catalinajack]

Wright's Marina in Britt, Ontario is one. But, not many exist, I think. In any case, any marina that offers the use of a courtesy car solves the problem.

Originally Posted by psneeld

I am not sure I have ever been to a marina with propane refills.


20# refillable tanks are easily available and many places they can be delivered/swapped out.


Carrying tanks that you need to take off the boat are still refillable in many ports either by a delivery truck or small enough, you can probably get them refilled. From what I read, many foreign ports also have the capability.

[rolomart3]

It takes abput 45 amp-hours of 12-volt service to cook a meal. In my boat I have used the 2000-watt continuos power Jupiter inverter from Harbor Freights Tool (HFT) ($130) to power the cook top and the rest of the house 120VAC electric service (except air conditioners) for over two years without incident.
A very convenient arrangement.

[bowball]

Does it make sense to replace a 20 year old electric cook top with an induction unit? Performance, electric draw, safety?

[rwidman]

My wife and I are both pleased with our Force 10 propane range. It and the propane are a factory installation.

You are probably better off having a certified pro do this, but whatever you do, get the ABYC propane requirements and follow them to the letter, don't just get advice on a boating forum.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by bowball

Does it make sense to replace a 20 year old electric cook top with an induction unit? Performance, electric draw, safety?

If powering the electric cooktop has not been a problem in the past, replacing it with an induction cooktop should be fine.

You might want to get someone to demonstrate induction cooking for you before making the investment. And in some cases, you will have to replace your pots and pans as well.

[tiltrider1]

Originally Posted by bowball

Does it make sense to replace a 20 year old electric cook top with an induction unit? Performance, electric draw, safety?

Yes it does

[ofer]

i replaced my 4 burner old electric top with a two burner conventional and two burner induction. Happy with the results.

[OldDan1943]

Originally Posted by ofer

i replaced my 4 burner old electric top with a two burner conventional and two burner induction. Happy with the results.

Sounds exciting but a few questions, please.
How many amps is your boat?
What is the capacity of your generator?
How many burners and oven can you run at a time?

I am a 30amp boat and dont see a way to implement a setup such as yours.

[ofer]

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

Sounds exciting but a few questions, please.
How many amps is your boat?
What is the capacity of your generator?
How many burners and oven can you run at a time?

I am a 30amp boat and don't see a way to implement a setup such as yours.

my boat is 30amps limited by the breaker(not sure why its not 50amps). I have a 5KW generator and 3000 watts invertor(upgrading to 4000)

normally not all tops go on at the same time and heat level dictates how many amps are consumed. i do have to juggle the toaster oven and or microwave at times.

[Marco Flamingo]

Originally Posted by rolomart3

It takes about 45 amp-hours of 12-volt service to cook a meal.

I'm curious about the "cook a meal" metric. Is that heating up a can of chili or preparing a three course meal with dessert? Not that I commonly do the latter on board. Probably what would help would be boiling a 70 degree quart of water and using an amp hour gauge on the battery (or even a Kill-a-Watt meter at the inverter). The Kill-a-Watt wouldn't take into account the effectiveness of the inverter, but it would give us some real numbers to work with. My calculation is that onboard induction cooking will take less than 45 amp-hours per day.

I'm replacing my propane with induction right now. Just pulled the stove out and I'm working on a new countertop. I'll probably start another thread as this one went FAR afield into $10,000 battery banks and crossing the Atlantic under electric propulsion, neither of which I care about.

But as to actually cooking with electricity vs. propane, I'm guessing that rolomart doesn't have a pure sine wave inverter. Those would be a $100-300 more than what he paid at Harbor Freight. From that I'm also guessing that his hot plate is resistance, not induction, as modified sine wave inverters don't run induction plates, or if they do, run them very ineffectively. Inexpensive inverters also tend to have 80-90% efficiency in converting DC to AC. I found a PSW inverter that has 93% efficiency with a remote switch to eliminate any standby losses. It is hard to get any apples to apples on propane vs. induction, but electric to electric should be possible.

One of the issue for me was the lack of an oven. In an earlier post I suggested that a Coleman stovetop oven could be used with induction. My experiments failed. I put a piece of mild steel on the induction stove top under the oven, thinking that it would get hot enough to throw off sufficient heat to heat the oven +350. Nope. Induction burners have a safety feature (dammit) that limits the temperature to 450-500, not nearly as hot as a Coleman stove (open flame) or electric resistance (glows red hot at +900F) in order to get a stove top oven hot enough. My induction top would get the steel just hot enough to start glowing, but then shut down for 5-10 minutes. I tried various things, including a fiberglass welding mat between the stove top and steel (to fool the temp sensor), but I was always foiled by the safety feature before the oven got hot enough. I could only maintain about 250 and that required resetting the induction burner each time after a safety shutdown and cooling period. I suppose I could eliminate the overheat safety feature to be like propane.

My present experiments involve the use of a Dutch oven on an induction stovetop. Most people aren't aware that the terminology came about because the English used "Dutch" as a pejorative. Dutch courage (aka, liquor), Dutch talent (aka, a poorly tied knot), Dutch auction (aka, sucker pricing). So I acknowledge that a Dutch oven is a workaround to a real oven. But, having been a professional chef, workarounds are often part of the job. It appears that I can do on 2 burners what requires 3 or 4 by unprofessional "toast burners."

The success or failure of my experiments will be updated.

Anybody interested in a vintage Magic Chef three burner propane stove without thermocouples? Original condition. I'm not sure it has even ever been cleaned. In my crazy induction stove top oven experiments, I did actually manage to burn something on the induction glass stove top. But the propane stove is a monument to burnt crap, crumbs, and popcorn. And that's just the top.

It wasn't just dust bunnies that I found in the 4" air space under the propane oven. I'll try to post a picture later.

[OldDan1943]

Originally Posted by ofer

my boat is 30amps limited by the breaker(not sure why its not 50amps). I have a 5KW generator and 3000 watts invertor(upgrading to 4000)

normally not all tops go on at the same time and heat level dictates how many amps are consumed. i do have to juggle the toaster oven and or microwave at times.

Ofer,
I am very surprised a 50ft Defever is not a 50amp boat but, 'you gotta dance with one who brung you.'

Your house batteries are 8Ds (3)?

Prior to increasing the size of your inverter, make sure you have enough battery amps to support the 4000amp inverter.
Side note: I have an 1800 watt inverter (plus 10%) and 3X4D batteries (gross of 600amp, usable 300amp) and I watch the voltage drop when I run the inverter. When I shut the inverter down, the voltage recovers quickly. I have a 2000 watt microwave and not sure how low the voltage (to the microwave) can get without damaging it.

Margo,
I have tried, on paper and in my feeble, failing mind, every which way I can think of to utilize induction burners and always stuck with 'what about the oven'? The 3 in 1 ovens require about 4 inches around it. No space in the cabinets on my boat. SHRUG

So the key to remember is, you gotta have lots of healthy battery power to support the inverter.

I put a amp meter in the galley so I can watch the amperage draw while making breakfast on my 3 burner Force 10 stove and oven. When necessary, perform my famous "30amp dance", shedding loads as necessary. The first load to shed is the HW heater.

[Marco Flamingo]

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

you gotta have lots of healthy battery power to support the inverter.

I have a 520Ah bank and I have my battery monitor set at a very conservative 140Ah as my "100% of usable" instead of the normal 260Ah (50% SOC). That may be too conservative as my monitor's "100%" used is really only a 73% SOC. My choice of 140Ah is sort of a random number I figured to keep my batteries healthy and give me a safety factor. And because I have a battery bank, not a separate house bank and a starter bank. I could probably start my 80hp diesel with the batteries at 15% SOC, but I never want to find out.

A night at anchor (dinner, breakfast, with heat and fridge running) drops us down to 75% remaining on the battery monitor (which pencils out to an actual SOC of 82%). Kind of wonky, but I want to be spooked about battery usage in the places I like to cruise.

It will be interesting to see how my inverter eats into that. I've even considered having to add another load specific battery right at the inverter if necessary. Hopefully not. It's commonly done with windlass and bow thruster, but not for a stove. I guess it shows how much I want propane off my boat. On the other hand, I haven't yet removed the propane locker or the copper propane feed line threaded through the boat. God, I hope I never need them.

[ofer]

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

Ofer,
I am very surprised a 50ft Defever is not a 50amp boat but, 'you gotta dance with one who brung you.'

Your house batteries are 8Ds (3)?

Prior to increasing the size of your inverter, make sure you have enough battery amps to support the 4000amp inverter.
Side note: I have an 1800 watt inverter (plus 10%) and 3X4D batteries (gross of 600amp, usable 300amp) and I watch the voltage drop when I run the inverter. When I shut the inverter down, the voltage recovers quickly. I have a 2000 watt microwave and not sure how low the voltage (to the microwave) can get without damaging it.

Thanks Dan

i have at least 1200 amps something like 18 GC2. also large solar array and an additional 2X32V banks that can charge the 12V bank.

I think there something wrong with main 110V beaker maybe its getting old.

[JWellington]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Why not switch to electric induction? Cooks like gas, but the fuel is much easier to deal with.

Yes, the best, safest.

[JWellington]

Electric induction...safest, easiest, less fuss.

[OldDan1943]

Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo

I have a 520Ah bank and I have my battery monitor set at a very conservative 140Ah as my "100% of usable" instead of the normal 260Ah (50% SOC). That may be too conservative as my monitor's "100%" used is really only a 73% SOC. My choice of 140Ah is sort of a random number I figured to keep my batteries healthy and give me a safety factor. And because I have a battery bank, not a separate house bank and a starter bank. I could probably start my 80hp diesel with the batteries at 15% SOC, but I never want to find out.

A night at anchor (dinner, breakfast, with heat and fridge running) drops us down to 75% remaining on the battery monitor (which pencils out to an actual SOC of 82%). Kind of wonky, but I want to be spooked about battery usage in the places I like to cruise.

It will be interesting to see how my inverter eats into that. I've even considered having to add another load specific battery right at the inverter if necessary. Hopefully not. It's commonly done with windlass and bow thruster, but not for a stove. I guess it shows how much I want propane off my boat. On the other hand, I haven't yet removed the propane locker or the copper propane feed line threaded through the boat. God, I hope I never need them.

I would add the extra battery into the house buss not a stand alone dedicated battery. Once you get the additional battery on the house buss, separate the start battery from the house with a parallel switch.
Dont even consider running the 120 electric vt stove on your batteries. Many cruising people have tried but I have not heard of a success story.
If your fridge is 12 volt, you will be able to run for days on the batteries.
A suggestion, research the 120vt 1800watt induction hotplate. See how many amps it draws when operating (cycling on) and let me/us know, please.

[OldDan1943]

Originally Posted by ofer

Thanks Dan

i have at least 1200 amps something like 18 GC2. also large solar array and an additional 2X32V banks that can charge the 12V bank.

I think there something wrong with main 110V beaker maybe its getting old.

Ofer, yea, just change out the breaker. The spring maybe very weak on you 30 year old boat. I changed out my main breakers when they opened too often to make me happy.

I too have solar panels.... 2X130watt. They just lay there happy and proud, on the sunny days quietly adding the charger to the batteries. At night, they are very, very quiet. I only have room for 2 solar panels on the pilot house roof.
Side note: If you have healthy batteries and they don't block the boat in the shade, when hauled, the 2 panels will power the 12vt fridge successfully.

[Marco Flamingo]

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

A suggestion, research the 120vt 1800watt induction hotplate. See how many amps it draws when operating (cycling on) and let me/us know, please.

I've have the numbers. I already bought my induction top and have run it through a Kill-a-Watt. Of course, I'll pay some penalty for converting from DC to get those watts. (A 7% penalty if the owner's manual is correct).

I'm going to start a new thread about the change over. Hopefully it won't need to include the electric vs. propane arguments as I've already bought the cow.

[catalinajack]

Originally Posted by bowball

Does it make sense to replace a 20 year old electric cook top with an induction unit? Performance, electric draw, safety?

Yes, the performance gain of induction is dramatic.

[catalinajack]

Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo

I'm curious about the "cook a meal" metric. Is that heating up a can of chili or preparing a three course meal with dessert? Not that I commonly do the latter on board. Probably what would help would be boiling a 70 degree quart of water and using an amp hour gauge on the battery (or even a Kill-a-Watt meter at the inverter). The Kill-a-Watt wouldn't take into account the effectiveness of the inverter, but it would give us some real numbers to work with. My calculation is that onboard induction cooking will take less than 45 amp-hours per day.



I'm replacing my propane with induction right now. Just pulled the stove out and I'm working on a new countertop. I'll probably start another thread as this one went FAR afield into $10,000 battery banks and crossing the Atlantic under electric propulsion, neither of which I care about.



But as to actually cooking with electricity vs. propane, I'm guessing that rolomart doesn't have a pure sine wave inverter. Those would be a $100-300 more than what he paid at Harbor Freight. From that I'm also guessing that his hot plate is resistance, not induction, as modified sine wave inverters don't run induction plates, or if they do, run them very ineffectively. Inexpensive inverters also tend to have 80-90% efficiency in converting DC to AC. I found a PSW inverter that has 93% efficiency with a remote switch to eliminate any standby losses. It is hard to get any apples to apples on propane vs. induction, but electric to electric should be possible.



One of the issue for me was the lack of an oven. In an earlier post I suggested that a Coleman stovetop oven could be used with induction. My experiments failed. I put a piece of mild steel on the induction stove top under the oven, thinking that it would get hot enough to throw off sufficient heat to heat the oven +350. Nope. Induction burners have a safety feature (dammit) that limits the temperature to 450-500, not nearly as hot as a Coleman stove (open flame) or electric resistance (glows red hot at +900F) in order to get a stove top oven hot enough. My induction top would get the steel just hot enough to start glowing, but then shut down for 5-10 minutes. I tried various things, including a fiberglass welding mat between the stove top and steel (to fool the temp sensor), but I was always foiled by the safety feature before the oven got hot enough. I could only maintain about 250 and that required resetting the induction burner each time after a safety shutdown and cooling period. I suppose I could eliminate the overheat safety feature to be like propane.



My present experiments involve the use of a Dutch oven on an induction stovetop. Most people aren't aware that the terminology came about because the English used "Dutch" as a pejorative. Dutch courage (aka, liquor), Dutch talent (aka, a poorly tied knot), Dutch auction (aka, sucker pricing). So I acknowledge that a Dutch oven is a workaround to a real oven. But, having been a professional chef, workarounds are often part of the job. It appears that I can do on 2 burners what requires 3 or 4 by unprofessional "toast burners."



The success or failure of my experiments will be updated.



Anybody interested in a vintage Magic Chef three burner propane stove without thermocouples? Original condition. I'm not sure it has even ever been cleaned. In my crazy induction stove top oven experiments, I did actually manage to burn something on the induction glass stove top. But the propane stove is a monument to burnt crap, crumbs, and popcorn. And that's just the top.



It wasn't just dust bunnies that I found in the 4" air space under the propane oven. I'll try to post a picture later.

Breville Smart Oven. Look it up.