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Old 12-23-2020, 08:20 PM   #201
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^^^^"odd duck", by a guy who made false statements about me above, and when challenged, couldn't show what you claimed I said.
For a guy who refuses to provide citations, you're a bit touchy about when someone doesn't respond to you.

Go do your homework. Everything I said about you is absolutely true. Prove me wrong.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:25 PM   #202
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If anyone on this thread thinks I've told a falsehood about David Ess or otherwise mis-characterized him, please speak up. I'll admit I've used some salty references and backhand compliments, but if any have not had the ring of truth based on his responses, please speak up now.

Thank you.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:26 PM   #203
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rslifkin.......I dont question your figures but wonder if anyone on your boat has ever used 3X 1100 watt burners at the same time. In my life I dont think ive ever seen that done in a house kitchen. Then...if the stove was induction....how much less power?
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:30 PM   #204
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For a guy who refuses to provide citations, you're a bit touchy about when someone doesn't respond to you.

Go do your homework. Everything I said about you is absolutely true. Prove me wrong.
You lied, and couldnt back it up when challenged, and show no shame about it. Also when i provided citations above, some of you guys said the companies were lying. In any case , no use my bothering with frivolous trolling messages. Go lie about somebody else. I wont waste anymore time on you.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:32 PM   #205
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I dont remember anybody saying hybrid boats are 'the answer', to long distance cruising. But I made the bold and controversial comment that a 110 KwH litium battery pack can fit into a 55 foot boat. Some denied it, I proved such boats already exist, some denied that too.
Is the boat a prototype, 2 or 3 units built, or an actual production model with a boat builder producing them?

In case this is unfamiliar to you, a man named Howard Hughes had his company (Hughes Aicraft Company) build a wood seaplane with 8 engines with the intent to sell them to the war department for transatlantic transports during WWII. While the prototype did fly once, it was never put into production.

The point is that the boat you're describing is feasible as a prototype. Whether it's anything more than that is usually measured by it going into production by a boat builder as opposed to custom fabrication.

Ted
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:34 PM   #206
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rslifkin.......I dont question your figures but wonder if anyone on your boat has ever used 3X 1100 watt burners at the same time. In my life I dont think ive ever seen that done in a house kitchen. Then...if the stove was induction....how much less power?
David - on the older princess electric ranges, you could run either the Hobbs, or you could run the oven. Not both at same time. I read OC Divers post as a reminder. I lived aboard a 1975 Uniflite 42 ACMY for a few years. I had forgotten about that "feature" until Ted mentioned it.

Dang inconvenient. It was a 2x30A boat and we were constantly doing the 30-Amp two-step as OldDan calls it.

Plus it was a lousy stove. Would have swapped for propane in a NY minute.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:34 PM   #207
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Guess you mightvhavecbeen one of those. Lets wait to see if anybody bothers to look it up, not only that theyvexist, but that a Silent yacht has crossed the Atlantic, from Spain to Florida. ITMT, I wont bother wasting anymore time on frivolous guys. But......if you ever find out the dimensions of a 110 litium battery pack, as discussed above, then DO get back to me.
So you have nothing - thought as much

And I did post links to 20kwh battery banks with weight, prices and dimensions but clearly you are not smart enough to think that x 5 is going to get you pretty close to your 110.
Let's not forget you also claimed that you'd be going for double that size.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:35 PM   #208
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you lied, and couldnt back it up when challenged, and show no shame about it. Also when i provided citations above, some of you guys said the companies were lying. In any case , no use my bothering with frivolous trolling messages. Go lie about somebody else. I wont waste anymore time on you.
thank you jesus! It's a miracle !
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:43 PM   #209
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Yes, unless you've got a pretty robust electrical system, an electric galley can be limiting. On any boat with less than a 6kw genset and not at least 2x 30A inlets (preferably a 50A 125/250), cooking as you describe would be somewhere between a challenge and impossible. Generally the point of adequate power availability happens anywhere in the 35 - 50 foot range, depending on the boat.

This is one of the reasons I say gas vs electric galley depends somewhat on your cooking style, as that determines just how much electrical infrastructure you need. And also why electric galleys make sense on some boats, but not others (as some already have the infrastructure to support it without much change, while others would require more work to support electric cooking).

Using my boat as an example, the stove has 3x 1100w burners, so 3300w if all 3 are on at the same time (they're coils, so they cycle rather than running at reduced power when turned down). Swap my microwave for a convection oven combo unit. The most likely unit I'm considering swapping in draws 1650 watts in oven mode.

So rounding up slightly, we're drawing 5kw to run all 3 burners and the oven. My 6.5kw genset will keep up with enough headroom to run the battery charger, some lights, etc. But you'd want to turn off the water heater. On shore power, it would be a non-issue, as the stove and microwave/oven are on separate legs. So out of 6kw available on each 50A leg, you're drawing 3.3kw on leg one (leaves enough for battery charger, water heater, and some headroom). And we're drawing 1.7kw on leg 2, leaving enough to run 2 of the 3 A/C units with some headroom.

But my boat was built with an electric galley in mind, so it's got a bit more power on board than some its size. Even at 38 feet, it's got two 50A 125V legs on the panel.
My boat was purpose built with an electric oven and cooktop. You can use one or the other off the 8KW generator (limitation of the stove manufacturer), provided you don't want to run the air conditioning. Unless you have an oversized generator, an all electric boat requires load shedding. One of the nice features about propane is that there isn't any load shedding required.

Ted
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:43 PM   #210
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rslifkin.......I dont question your figures but wonder if anyone on your boat has ever used 3X 1100 watt burners at the same time. In my life I dont think ive ever seen that done in a house kitchen. Then...if the stove was induction....how much less power?

I've never used more than 2 burners at a time on the boat, although I have at home. On the boat, it's partly due to cooking simpler meals, and partly because unless you're using fairly small pots, it's hard to actually make good use of all 3 burners on the boat stove.


An induction stove would use less power over time than mine (due to higher efficiency and better control), making it easier to power from batteries. But maximum peak power while heating things up or boiling water wouldn't be any less. In terms of size of inverter, generator, or shore power hookup needed, there's no real difference. As an example, one of the only 120v 3 burner induction cooktops I can find (from TrueInduction) draws 3300 watts max, same as my stove. Only difference is how the power is controlled and distributed per burner.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:45 PM   #211
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[QUOTE=O C Diver;956681]Is the boat a prototype, 2 or 3 units built, or an actual production model with a boat builder producing them?

In case this is unfamiliar to you, a man named Howard Hughes had his company (Hughes Aicraft Company) build a wood seaplane with 8 engines with the intent to sell them to the war department for transatlantic transports during WWII. While the prototype did fly once, it was never put into production.

The point is that the boat you're describing is feasible as a prototype. Whether it's anything more than that is usually measured by it going into production by a boat builder as opposed to customer fabrication.



Some have already been built, and apparently the company says theyll make as many as people want to buy. At least one I know of has already crossed the Atlantic. I know all about Howard Hughes, and also about concept and prototype programs. Nobody can know how many of any sort of boat or aeroplane, or car will pan out commercially. In fact we recently discussed one of the best trawlers ive ever seen...the Cape Horn ones.....yet very few out there.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:50 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
I've never used more than 2 burners at a time on the boat, although I have at home. On the boat, it's partly due to cooking simpler meals, and partly because unless you're using fairly small pots, it's hard to actually make good use of all 3 burners on the boat stove.


An induction stove would use less power over time than mine (due to higher efficiency and better control), making it easier to power from batteries. But maximum peak power while heating things up or boiling water wouldn't be any less. In terms of size of inverter, generator, or shore power hookup needed, there's no real difference. As an example, one of the only 120v 3 burner induction cooktops I can find (from TrueInduction) draws 3300 watts max, same as my stove. Only difference is how the power is controlled and distributed per burner.
If you haven't tried one of the single hobb induction hot plates, pickup one up. They're under $80 or so and I found them to be really incredible. There is virtually no wasted energy so even if the rating is same as your coil stove, the actual energy draw is less than half, probably a lot less.

Mine shows either temperature or watts. I found watts is more intuitive than temperature as it corresponds to high medium low. Rice and stew simmer nicely at 100 watts for example.

If I were to rip out my gas, I'd put in a two burner induction and keep the hot plate did oddball use. Maybe cooking outside or something.

Peter
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:51 PM   #213
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My Force 10 propane stove has one 2.4 kw burner, two 1 kw burners, and the oven is 1.6 kw for a total of 6 kw. Yes they've all been running at once. Really hard to beat the energy density of hydrocarbons. The Force 10 electric that it replaced could not do that, from the genset or the dock power.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:52 PM   #214
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[QUOTE=David Ess;956690]
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Is the boat a prototype, 2 or 3 units built, or an actual production model with a boat builder producing them?

In case this is unfamiliar to you, a man named Howard Hughes had his company (Hughes Aicraft Company) build a wood seaplane with 8 engines with the intent to sell them to the war department for transatlantic transports during WWII. While the prototype did fly once, it was never put into production.

The point is that the boat you're describing is feasible as a prototype. Whether it's anything more than that is usually measured by it going into production by a boat builder as opposed to customer fabrication.



Some have already been built, and apparently the company says theyll make as many as people want to buy. At least one I know of has already crossed the Atlantic. I know all about Howard Hughes, and also about concept and prototype programs. Nobody can know how many of any sort of boat or aeroplane, or car will pan out commercially. In fact we recently discussed one of the best trawlers ive ever seen...the Cape Horn ones.....yet very few out there.
Still waiting on the link for the one that crossed the Atlantic.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:52 PM   #215
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rslifkin.......I dont question your figures but wonder if anyone on your boat has ever used 3X 1100 watt burners at the same time. In my life I dont think ive ever seen that done in a house kitchen. Then...if the stove was induction....how much less power?
Really? Guess you've never been to a real Thanksgiving dinner with a serious cook.

Better yet, the Trawler Forum Rendezvous each February in Fort Pierce. You haven't seen a galley in action until you've seen Watfa cooking.

Ted
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:55 PM   #216
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If you haven't tried one of the single hobb induction hot plates, pickup one up. They're under $80 or so and I found them to be really incredible. There is virtually no wasted energy so even if the rating is same as your coil stove, the actual energy draw is less than half, probably a lot less.

Mine shows either temperature or watts. I found watts is more intuitive than temperature as it corresponds to high medium low. Rice and stew simmer nicely at 100 watts for example.

If I were to rip out my gas, I'd put in a two burner induction and keep the hot plate did oddball use. Maybe cooking outside or something.

Peter

If I were planning to use it on battery power, I'd absolutely pick one of those up. At least for now, I expect to stick to running the generator to use the stove away from the dock, so I'm probably better off saving the storage space for something more useful. My galley is a pretty decent layout for its size, but unfortunately a bit lacking in storage.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:58 PM   #217
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I've never used more than 2 burners at a time on the boat, although I have at home. On the boat, it's partly due to cooking simpler meals, and partly because unless you're using fairly small pots, it's hard to actually make good use of all 3 burners on the boat stove.


An induction stove would use less power over time than mine (due to higher efficiency and better control), making it easier to power from batteries. But maximum peak power while heating things up or boiling water wouldn't be any less. In terms of size of inverter, generator, or shore power hookup needed, there's no real difference. As an example, one of the only 120v 3 burner induction cooktops I can find (from TrueInduction) draws 3300 watts max, same as my stove. Only difference is how the power is controlled and distributed per burner.
Just so. And on the raging controversy over whether an eiectric induction stove is safer than a propane stove on a boat, where do you side on that? Me...I hold the bold and controversial position that ei is safer(and boy...did some of the resident trolls here ever go hysterical over that!)
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Old 12-23-2020, 09:00 PM   #218
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A Silent 64 (the only Silent 64) did cross the Atlantic (by the shortest possible route) in 2018. According to the captain, they only used 340 gallons of diesel (in their electric boat) to do it.
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Old 12-23-2020, 09:01 PM   #219
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David - boats you're looking at would have household electric ranges in them that run of generator. The exception is the electric albatross that has a 15kva inverter to power everything. Larger boats do not run gas because they carrying that much propane would be damn inconvenient. The smaller ranges like rslifkins (I assume it's a classic Princess with the bi-fold cover/cutting board) are now a rarity.

I wouldn't read anything more into new boats having electric ranges than that. Propane in 20-lb bottles (15 lb actual) is not practical for a household sized stove.

Peter
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Old 12-23-2020, 09:06 PM   #220
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A Silent 64 (the only Silent 64) did cross the Atlantic (by the shortest possible route) in 2018. According to the captain, they only used 340 gallons of diesel (in their electric boat) to do it.
Interesting. A Willard 36 went from San Diego to Hawaii and burned 335 gallons. 2400 nms. The longest leg of a circumnavigation of so inclined.

Would be an interesting story. Any citation? Would be interested in speed and weather conditions and such.

340 gallons sounds like a lot, but that boat runs a 150 kw generator (not a typo!!!). Has to devour diesel at 20 gph or more.
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