|
|
09-20-2018, 01:44 PM
|
#1
|
Veteran Member
City: Rockport, Ontario
Vessel Model: 1986 Oceania 35 Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 76
|
Weight/tonnage
My survey report said my boat is 13000 lbs. it's a 1986 Oceania 35 with a single Perkins 135. It was never an issue until my Maxwell/Nilsson windlass gave up the ghost. The Lewmar people said that their Pro Series 1000 would do it if it was a light displacement 35, I would need the H2 if it was a heavy displacement. The H2 is double the cost. I think the actual weight should be around 20,000 lbs. . Anyone have a better idea. What about windlass recommendations?
|
|
|
09-20-2018, 02:14 PM
|
#2
|
Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceania
My survey report said my boat is 13000 lbs. it's a 1986 Oceania 35 with a single Perkins 135. It was never an issue until my Maxwell/Nilsson windlass gave up the ghost. The Lewmar people said that their Pro Series 1000 would do it if it was a light displacement 35, I would need the H2 if it was a heavy displacement. The H2 is double the cost. I think the actual weight should be around 20,000 lbs. . Anyone have a better idea. What about windlass recommendations?
|
I'd recommend you stick with the lifting capacity that is currently on vessel. Have you shopped around? What is the current model, anchor size and rode type?
|
|
|
09-20-2018, 06:10 PM
|
#3
|
Guru
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,610
|
abandon hope all ye who enter here........
|
|
|
09-20-2018, 07:41 PM
|
#4
|
Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
|
How much does your ground tackle weigh?
|
|
|
09-20-2018, 08:01 PM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
City: punta gorda, FL
Vessel Name: Blue Bayou
Vessel Model: Hatteras 43MY
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 149
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
How much does your ground tackle weigh?
|
Exactly...you’re lifting the ground tackle, not the boat. What depth do you anchor in? 100 ft of chain plus the anchor hanging straight down is a lot of weight; 12 ft, not so much.
__________________
Punta Gorda, FL
|
|
|
09-21-2018, 07:44 AM
|
#6
|
Veteran Member
City: Hilton Head Island
Vessel Name: Lady Maria
Vessel Model: 1987 CT 35 Sundeck
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 49
|
I have a CT 35 sundeck and a displacement of 13k for your boat sure seems way low. My brochure indicated 19.8k empty, add water/fuel and I’m at 24k.
Anyway as noted by others boat displacement does not really matter, it’s the ground tackle that counts.
I installed a Lewmar Pro1000 for my boat as I’m using a 35# Delta and 50’ of G4 5/16 chain. Pro1000 has no problem with that set up.
|
|
|
09-21-2018, 07:55 AM
|
#7
|
Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,566
|
Greetings,
Re: Post #3. Agreed...
__________________
RTF
|
|
|
09-21-2018, 11:11 AM
|
#8
|
Guru
City: AR
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,515
|
Tonnage has nothing to do with the weight of your boat. It is a measure of how much wine a vessel can carry.
The word "tun" was originally a size of a cask used to ship wine from
Spain & Portugal to England. In 1347 a tax of 3 shillings per tun was
imposed and this was called "tonnage." A ship's size became known by the
number of casks it could carry, and the word tonnage started being used
to describe a ship's size.
It was found that if you took the length x the breadth x the depth of
the hold under the deck and divided by 100 it was close to the number of
casks. That is where we get the "Measurement ton" of 100 cubic feet per
ton.
There are several kinds of tonnage: The first two are used by the tax
collector. The next two are used by designers. The fifth and sixth are
used by freight salesmen and canal operators and the last one is used by
the USCG for documenting boats.
(There's more if you're interested...)
--Peggie
|
|
|
09-21-2018, 11:20 AM
|
#9
|
Guru
City: Quebec
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,375
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress
Tonnage has nothing to do with the weight of your boat. It is a measure of how much wine a vessel can carry.
The word "tun" was originally a size of a cask used to ship wine from
Spain & Portugal to England. In 1347 a tax of 3 shillings per tun was
imposed and this was called "tonnage." A ship's size became known by the
number of casks it could carry, and the word tonnage started being used
to describe a ship's size.
It was found that if you took the length x the breadth x the depth of
the hold under the deck and divided by 100 it was close to the number of
casks. That is where we get the "Measurement ton" of 100 cubic feet per
ton.
There are several kinds of tonnage: The first two are used by the tax
collector. The next two are used by designers. The fifth and sixth are
used by freight salesmen and canal operators and the last one is used by
the USCG for documenting boats.
(There's more if you're interested...)
--Peggie
|
Mr RTF can testimony that my boat has a very very high tonnage lol
L.
|
|
|
09-22-2018, 04:55 AM
|
#10
|
Veteran Member
City: Rockport, Ontario
Vessel Model: 1986 Oceania 35 Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 76
|
Weight/tonnage
Very interesting replies. So, if you are not supposed to haul your boat up to the anchor with your windlass and you are supposed to snub your rode when anchored, then your tonnage should only influence rode size and grade, right? My ground tackle is a 20 kg. Bruce claw and 150 ft. Of 5/16 BBB chain. I rarely anchor in depths beyond 20 ft unless there is any emergency. For 20 ft. I lay out about 60 to 70 feet of chain.
|
|
|
09-22-2018, 06:13 AM
|
#11
|
Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceania
Very interesting replies. So, if you are not supposed to haul your boat up to the anchor with your windlass and you are supposed to snub your rode when anchored, then your tonnage should only influence rode size and grade, right:
|
Not necessarily. In an imperfect anchorage the wind blows and current runs. Sometimes hard, like a gale (or worse) when you are anchored and readying for retrieval. Under these potential real world scenarios, keeping the boat pointed and powering perfectly into the wind and current with no environmental load on the windlass is nigh impossible for the Admiral with me on the foredeck.
The total load the windlass then sees may well be above the weight of the anchor, rode and "break loose" from the bottom forces. How much more load you size you windlass for is called safety factor and is up to you and your wallet. I like windlass sizing to minimally approximate 75% of the WLL of your well sized chain. Imperfect - of course. Debatable - absolutely. Safe - yes.
|
|
|
09-22-2018, 06:35 AM
|
#12
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
Not necessarily. In an imperfect anchorage the wind blows and current runs. Sometimes hard, like a gale (or worse) when you are anchored and readying for retrieval. Under these potential real world scenarios, keeping the boat pointed and powering perfectly into the wind and current with no environmental load on the windlass is nigh impossible for the Admiral with me on the foredeck.
The total load the windlass then sees may well be above the weight of the anchor, rode and "break loose" from the bottom forces. How much more load you size you windlass for is called safety factor and is up to you and your wallet. I like windlass sizing to minimally approximate 75% of the WLL of your well sized chain. Imperfect - of course. Debatable - absolutely. Safe - yes.
|
Those that keep posting how fragile windlasses are need to do 2 things....I am guessing buy better ones ( if still made), and take one apart that has been abused (like mine) and see how little damage there is to the working parts.
Heck mine is almost pulling through the solid teak pulpit and shows little sign of chipped or broken or even worn gears (one key is a lityle loose) and it is a 1988 that has only had a break in anchoring for about 4 years.
I am not advocating abuse, but as pointed out, sometimes pulling anchor is less than idyllic.
|
|
|
09-22-2018, 06:48 AM
|
#13
|
Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,566
|
Greetings,
Re: Post #9...
__________________
RTF
|
|
|
09-22-2018, 08:51 AM
|
#14
|
Guru
City: AR
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,515
|
then your tonnage should only influence rode size and grade, right?
Tonnage has nothing to do with it..it's your boat's WEIGHT that determines anchor rode size and grade. See post #8
--Peggie
|
|
|
09-23-2018, 09:31 AM
|
#15
|
Veteran Member
City: Rockport, Ontario
Vessel Model: 1986 Oceania 35 Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 76
|
Thanks Peggie, but I guess you want me to distinguish weight from the term tonnage vis your explanation. I got it! [emoji926]
|
|
|
09-27-2018, 06:57 AM
|
#16
|
Veteran Member
City: Rockport, Ontario
Vessel Model: 1986 Oceania 35 Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 76
|
I've ordered a Lewmar Pro Series 1000 with a 5/16" gypsy for a BBB chain . That should do it.
|
|
|
10-01-2018, 01:04 PM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
City: EASTHAMPTON, NEW YORK
Vessel Name: REFUGE
Vessel Model: Performance Trawler 35
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 104
|
Windlass Issue
I had a similar boat and windlass as you and did not have any problems.. I always motored up to the anchor while the windlass.was taking up the rope/chain with out a load. . The windlass is designed to lift the anchor when the bow is on top of it. I've seen boaters let the windlass pull the boat up to the amchor which it is not designed to do.
I would guess your dry weight is about 9 tons.
|
|
|
10-01-2018, 03:14 PM
|
#18
|
Senior Member
City: Grenadines
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 167
|
Every windlass instruction sheet I have ever read said not to use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor. They recommend you power up on the anchor and use the engine to power it out of the bottom. If you have not been doing this, then perhaps this is why you need a new windlass.
Therefore, the weight of your boat should have less to do with the size of your windlass than the weight of your ground tackle, as those above have said. However, I think one should have enough power in your windlass to power up the entire amount of chain and your heaviest anchor, should it ever be necessary, if for instance, if your anchor were to go down unintentionally, in deep water while you are underway. It happens!
__________________
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
-Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Grahame
|
|
|
10-01-2018, 04:07 PM
|
#19
|
Guru
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 5,482
|
No serious cruiser ever complains about too much windlass or too much anchor.
We have never had an issue with ours even in extreme conditions but I would increase everything in size in a heartbeat if I was looking at replacing everything.
Add: we mostly pull/pulse our 65 tonnes up to the anchor with the windlass as it keeps us heading to the anchor and not overshooting it.
Never had the overload breakers trip yet and cones/clutch are set to slip before overload.
|
|
|
10-01-2018, 05:07 PM
|
#20
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60
No serious cruiser ever complains about too much windlass or too much anchor.
We have never had an issue with ours even in extreme conditions but I would increase everything in size in a heartbeat if I was looking at replacing everything.
Add: we mostly pull/pulse our 65 tonnes up to the anchor with the windlass as it keeps us heading to the anchor and not overshooting it.
Never had the overload breakers trip yet and cones/clutch are set to slip before overload.
|
Agreed...I don't expect my windlass to pull me forward in a gale and huge chop...but in most anchoring conditions it does it fine.... with the pull a bit and let the catenary do most of the work, then pull some more.
I have had my windlass apart several times, it is a 1988 Vetus and the gears look in great shape.
I feel sorry for those that have to baby their windlass as it just makes life that little bit harder.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Trawler Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|