Newbie - Anyone shed light on "Blue Seas" brand?

[DeanOz]

Hi Deanoz and welcome,
We looked at a blue Seas before buying our boat - huge interior but the "back verandah" was pretty skinny plus the ladder up to the fly bridge was vertical which was off putting for us., esp if carrying a small dog (or a drink)

Re decks - boats of this age can be a worry. Decks are built with a top and bottom layer of glass, the top layer is the thickest with layer in the middle (the core) of either foam, balsa, or small blocks of ply. The teak on top is mostly decorative but unfortunately it was screwed down with the screws penetrating the top layer of glass. Over the years either through these screw holes or other deck penetrations water has worked its way into the core and, as someone else has said, turned the wooden core to mush. Thus the sponginess. Is it fixeable......yes.......teak gets ripped off (and destroyed in the process) cut the top layer of glass out, scoop out the mushy core, replace, reglass (often using the original piece if you are lucky) add a couple of layers of glass to cover the loss of strength from the teak and paint OR re do the teak, but only if you want to extend the mortgage on your house, DYI if you are handy, Here ends the lesson.

Good luck

Haha! Yes, the term over-capitalising comes to mind. Your IG looks lovely.

 

[Andy G]

Hi DeanOZ,

Welcome aboard the good ship TF. The posts have covered most of the obvious issues to be checked and discounted, I'll only throw in one extra.

Do ensure you check the engine bearers. The longitudinal stringers will be encased in a fiberglass sheath. Over the years PO's may have drilled into the bearers to attach wiring etc. If water has got into the hardwood it can over time reduce the strength of the bearers, as once inside the fiberglass casing the water has nowhere to go. This can result in the engine 'saging' slightly putting pressure on the gearbox coupling, which in turn can affect the driveshaft, especially at the packing assembly.

This is what happened to us on our previous boat a 34' Mk1 clipper.One of the tell tale signs is an excess of water coming in through the shaft packing gland at a much greater rate than would be expected.(though it could also just be that the packing gland needs tightening.)

Personally, I think the rot and tank rust issues are more important than some osmosis in the hull.

I know you are from Melbourne, but keep in mind the old adage, buying an old boat is like the Sydney harbour bridge, you start working at one end and by the time you get to the other end it's time to start again.

Anyway, good luck, you'll be ready for a bit of boating by the time the premier lets you out and about again.

Edit: One other tip, there are surveyors and there are surveyors.Not all are created equal. Don't rely on the selling broker for recommendations.

 

[DeanOz]

Hi DeanOZ,

Welcome aboard the good ship TF. The posts have covered most of the obvious issues to be checked and discounted, I'll only throw in one extra.

Do ensure you check the engine bearers. The longitudinal stringers will be encased in a fiberglass sheath. Over the years PO's may have drilled into the bearers to attach wiring etc. If water has got into the hardwood it can over time reduce the strength of the bearers, as once inside the fiberglass casing the water has nowhere to go. This can result in the engine 'saging' slightly putting pressure on the gearbox coupling, which in turn can affect the driveshaft, especially at the packing assembly.

This is what happened to us on our previous boat a 34' Mk1 clipper.One of the tell tale signs is an excess of water coming in through the shaft packing gland at a much greater rate than would be expected.(though it could also just be that the packing gland needs tightening.)

Personally, I think the rot and tank rust issues are more important than some osmosis in the hull.

I know you are from Melbourne, but keep in mind the old adage, buying an old boat is like the Sydney harbour bridge, you start working at one end and by the time you get to the other end it's time to start again.

Anyway, good luck, you'll be ready for a bit of boating by the time the premier lets you out and about again.

Edit: One other tip, there are surveyors and there are surveyors.Not all are created equal. Don't rely on the selling broker for recommendations.

Haha! Indeed I will be ready - I am right now!! Thanks for the tips. I don't know what I would have done in the days before TF.

I was told about looking for sponginess at the bearers where the engine mounts attach. This adds to the area I look at. Again - the 'ol hammer wrapped in gaffer tape will help find acoustic anomalies and then it's off to a surveyor for the professional opinion if the rest of the boat stacks up.

 

[AusCan]

Thanks - I can't wait to see the eyes on the broker when I come aboard with a rubber mallet in my hand!

Most surveyors use one, so it shouldn't raise eyebrows. Just try to find a white one rather than a black one, so you don't mark up any gel coat.
$6.95 at Bunnings.

 

[DeanOz]

Most surveyors use one, so it shouldn't raise eyebrows. Just try to find a white one rather than a black one, so you don't mark up any gel coat.
$6.95 at Bunnings.

Absolutely. I was being a bit cheeky - I would never start tapping a lovely boat with a black mallet. Any tapping will be done with the device covered in non-marking tape.

 

[High Wire]

Another giveaway is wet spots on the deck that don’t dry. Hose the deck down heavily with a garden hose and let it dry in the sun. Check back in an hour. Those areas will squish when you step on them.

 

[DeanOz]

Another giveaway is wet spots on the deck that don’t dry. Hose the deck down heavily with a garden hose and let it dry in the sun. Check back in an hour. Those areas will squish when you step on them.

Love it!!
Thanks

 

[firehoser75]

Hi Dean and Welcome aboard the forum!
To me, the biggest issues are the tanks (especially if steel) as they are often very difficult to remove and reinstall without major surgery, and the screwed down teak decks. To me, the screwed down teak decks are one of three things. Either they have been a problem, are a problem, or will be a problem. Thousands of screw holes that probably have not been properly recaulked for a long time (if ever). If they are leaking and the deck has rot, it can be very expensive or at least time consuming (if a DYIer) to repair. If not leaking (lucky if that is the case), then you have a major time commitment to remove and recaulk all of the screws, and reseal any areas where water could leak into the deck. For me, I wanted to avoid screwed down teak decks at all costs (even though they look nice and are nice underfoot).
As you have alluded to and others have stated, when looking at an older boat, past maintenance is critical. Look hard for a boat that has been very loved by her previous owners! Usually you can tell by looking, but records are important to verify.
Don't be afraid to spend lots of time "checking things out" before an offer and survey. I too have been down the path of paying for a survey then walking due to larger issues.

I hope Victoria gets this bug under control soon!

 

[Rosborough 35]

Set aside significant money for repairs and replacements

Hello from the US Gulf Coast and welcome aboard the forum!

Eight years ago, I shopped for about a year before buying our 1995 Rosborough 35 Atlantic Trawler. The Rosborough is a very solidly built boat and it was in good shape, but it was a 17 years old boat when we bought it. I did a lot of looking on YachtWorld to narrow down the list and then made four trips to different parts of the US to look at around 20 different boats. I ended up buying a boat that cost significantly less than my maximum budget and I was glad that I did.

Over the next year, I spent over $30,000 (US) on repairs and fix-ups on a boat for which I paid $77,000 (US). I did most of the work and installations myself. I learned that with a 17 year old boat, even though a surveyor may give systems his approval, both mechanical and electronic equipment can be reaching their end-of-life. I had to replace the bow thruster, the windlass, hydraulic steering hoses, the autopilot, the radar, depth sounder, the air conditioning unit, engine heat exchanger, the inverter, the battery charger, 3 Group 8D batteries, and more. I also added quite a few things to the boat like AIS, flat panel TV, sound system, new antennas, new heads, LED lighting, new radios, etc. I also re-wired the "snake pit" behind the 3 electrical panels. After that first expensive year, I have averaged $4,000 to $5,000 (US) per year on equipment repairs, replacements, and upgrades. That doesn't include the cost of haulouts for bottom jobs.

I would like to second the earlier comments about checking for fuel tank problems. They can be very expensive. You also need to watch for water tank problems and holding tank problems. The prior owner of our boat paid $195,000 for the boat 2 years before he sold it to me. After he had owned the boat about a year, he discovered major corrosion problems in both the fuel tanks and the water tanks. His surveyor didn't identify either problem. Both Diesel and water were leaking into the bilge. He had to replace the two Diesel tanks and the two water tanks. To do that, the engine had to be pulled. He had the job done right and installed 5052 H32 aluminum Diesel tanks and 316 stainless steel water tanks. The cost of replacing those 4 tanks was over $25,000 (US). I think the prior owner was surprised and overwhelmed at the cost of maintaining an older boat. He wasn't capable of doing the work himself and the cost of ownership was just too high. I think he decided to sell the boat to cut his loses.

The comment by Andy G, "There are surveyors and there are surveyors, not all are created equal" is right on the money. I've got two surveys on my boat, one done for the prior owner and one done for me, and both surveys missed significant issues. The prior owner's surveyor didn't catch the tank corrosion problems. My surveyor didn't test all of the systems on the boat and missed the fact that the autopilot didn't work. He also missed the fact that the hydraulic hoses for the steering system had pinhole leaks due to abrasion. He also didn't note that one of the holding tanks had a leak at a weld seam. Make sure to spend some time shopping for a good surveyor.

Good luck with your boat shopping.

 

[Southern Boater]

Hi Dean, plenty of great info already, and as you can see, going forward can be a real minefield.
Don’t look at the failed survey as a big hit, it was probably the best 2K you have spent, with your eyes now wide open.
I recently got caught with a 5K cost on a NSW based boat, but I flew my own surveyor in, never make the mistake of using broker recommended surveyors.
In saying this, even a good one will not pick up all issues in a days work.

One thing I’m hearing during C-19, is that good stock of any leisure activity items are hard to find, so this could be a long term hunt for you.

Have you considered mooring whatever trawler you get at Lakes Entrance?
It’s a great cruising area, with plenty of sheltered anchorages, unlike Port Phillip Bay, and an easy run on the highway.
You also will need to convince your partner that boats are the go, so definitely avoid taking her out on a rough day. Once convinced, it’s amazing how easily it is to justify ongoing expenses towards the lifestyle

 

[DeanOz]

Hi Dean and Welcome aboard the forum!
To me, the biggest issues are the tanks (especially if steel) as they are often very difficult to remove and reinstall without major surgery, and the screwed down teak decks. To me, the screwed down teak decks are one of three things. Either they have been a problem, are a problem, or will be a problem. Thousands of screw holes that probably have not been properly recaulked for a long time (if ever). If they are leaking and the deck has rot, it can be very expensive or at least time consuming (if a DYIer) to repair. If not leaking (lucky if that is the case), then you have a major time commitment to remove and recaulk all of the screws, and reseal any areas where water could leak into the deck. For me, I wanted to avoid screwed down teak decks at all costs (even though they look nice and are nice underfoot).
As you have alluded to and others have stated, when looking at an older boat, past maintenance is critical. Look hard for a boat that has been very loved by her previous owners! Usually you can tell by looking, but records are important to verify.
Don't be afraid to spend lots of time "checking things out" before an offer and survey. I too have been down the path of paying for a survey then walking due to larger issues.

I hope Victoria gets this bug under control soon!

Thanks Tom, great advice. Thanks to the info people have been willing to give me here on TF, I am fore-armed with things to look for and methods to find them.

Thanks too for your wishes. We are in week 2 of a 6 week period of curfews and heavy restrictions. At least I can dream of being on the water again.

 

[DeanOz]

Hello from the US Gulf Coast and welcome aboard the forum!

Eight years ago, I shopped for about a year before buying our 1995 Rosborough 35 Atlantic Trawler. The Rosborough is a very solidly built boat and it was in good shape, but it was a 17 years old boat when we bought it. I did a lot of looking on YachtWorld to narrow down the list and then made four trips to different parts of the US to look at around 20 different boats. I ended up buying a boat that cost significantly less than my maximum budget and I was glad that I did.

Over the next year, I spent over $30,000 (US) on repairs and fix-ups on a boat for which I paid $77,000 (US). I did most of the work and installations myself. I learned that with a 17 year old boat, even though a surveyor may give systems his approval, both mechanical and electronic equipment can be reaching their end-of-life. I had to replace the bow thruster, the windlass, hydraulic steering hoses, the autopilot, the radar, depth sounder, the air conditioning unit, engine heat exchanger, the inverter, the battery charger, 3 Group 8D batteries, and more. I also added quite a few things to the boat like AIS, flat panel TV, sound system, new antennas, new heads, LED lighting, new radios, etc. I also re-wired the "snake pit" behind the 3 electrical panels. After that first expensive year, I have averaged $4,000 to $5,000 (US) per year on equipment repairs, replacements, and upgrades. That doesn't include the cost of haulouts for bottom jobs.

I would like to second the earlier comments about checking for fuel tank problems. They can be very expensive. You also need to watch for water tank problems and holding tank problems. The prior owner of our boat paid $195,000 for the boat 2 years before he sold it to me. After he had owned the boat about a year, he discovered major corrosion problems in both the fuel tanks and the water tanks. His surveyor didn't identify either problem. Both Diesel and water were leaking into the bilge. He had to replace the two Diesel tanks and the two water tanks. To do that, the engine had to be pulled. He had the job done right and installed 5052 H32 aluminum Diesel tanks and 316 stainless steel water tanks. The cost of replacing those 4 tanks was over $25,000 (US). I think the prior owner was surprised and overwhelmed at the cost of maintaining an older boat. He wasn't capable of doing the work himself and the cost of ownership was just too high. I think he decided to sell the boat to cut his loses.

The comment by Andy G, "There are surveyors and there are surveyors, not all are created equal" is right on the money. I've got two surveys on my boat, one done for the prior owner and one done for me, and both surveys missed significant issues. The prior owner's surveyor didn't catch the tank corrosion problems. My surveyor didn't test all of the systems on the boat and missed the fact that the autopilot didn't work. He also missed the fact that the hydraulic hoses for the steering system had pinhole leaks due to abrasion. He also didn't note that one of the holding tanks had a leak at a weld seam. Make sure to spend some time shopping for a good surveyor.

Good luck with your boat shopping.

Wow! A wealth of info here. Thanks for that. I have a 4 page document, I am adding to almost daily, with things to look for. My plan is to thoroughly go over the vessel with my eyes wide open and tap away with my mallet (thanks AusCan) and snake inspection camera (thanks Insequent) BEFORE engaging with a surveyor and when I do get a surveyor, I will be there with them at the time of haul out / inspection / sea trial.

The vessel I am looking at has no nav equipment, apart from an old cruddy fish finder. It also only has a 3kva genset, with a new 2400w inverter and 120w solar. My view is that I get on board with my checklist (thanks to everyone here) and start checking away. At the end, I come away with a ball-park figure for replacement bits and required work costings. I then add on things that I would like and with the total figure of that, I deduct it from the asking price and start my negotiation there. This isn't a house that I have to have to have a roof over my head, so if they want to sell, they need to be realistic. Although that pig-headedness may keep me from owning anything soon

 

[BYNW]

I found references to the Blue Seas 36 with models from 1973 -1984. I believe it is a Marine Trader with an importer/dealers moniker on it. We see this all the time with boats being marketed by the yard name like CHB or FuHwa, the designers name like DeFever or Monk, or like in this case a name associated with a sales company.

 

[DeanOz]

Hi Dean, plenty of great info already, and as you can see, going forward can be a real minefield.
Don’t look at the failed survey as a big hit, it was probably the best 2K you have spent, with your eyes now wide open.
I recently got caught with a 5K cost on a NSW based boat, but I flew my own surveyor in, never make the mistake of using broker recommended surveyors.
In saying this, even a good one will not pick up all issues in a days work.

One thing I’m hearing during C-19, is that good stock of any leisure activity items are hard to find, so this could be a long term hunt for you.

Have you considered mooring whatever trawler you get at Lakes Entrance?
It’s a great cruising area, with plenty of sheltered anchorages, unlike Port Phillip Bay, and an easy run on the highway.
You also will need to convince your partner that boats are the go, so definitely avoid taking her out on a rough day. Once convinced, it’s amazing how easily it is to justify ongoing expenses towards the lifestyle

Ouch! - that 5k would have hurt. Yes, I agree that 2k was nothing compared to getting into something that would consume any funds I have. As for surveyors, yep - There's nothing independent in a surveyor recommended by the broker I will find my own.

I recently retired early (50y.o) due to cancer and am now in remission. I have time to look for something that is seaworthy, but I am also not worried about getting may hands dirty with maintenance. I learned a long time ago to be very wary of going for the cheapest option, as they can be the most expensive. That said, I don't want to be woody wood-duck and shell out huge amounts either, as it will still be a comparatively old boat which will require ongoing capital injection to maintain.

As for Lakes Entrance, I live in South Melbourne and plan on berthing her at the Docklands, so that I can get to her often (if not daily). The one I am currently looking at is berthed at LE, so if I get her, I will live aboard for a short while there and then steam her back to Melbourne.

I know one thing about my wife of 20 years - she can be very headstrong and say "I hate [insert thing here]", but when she gets into it, she can quickly change her mind. Still, your sage words of advice re: calm day passage will be what I aim for.

Take care down there in Tassie.

 

[DeanOz]

I found references to the Blue Seas 36 with models from 1973 -1984. I believe it is a Marine Trader with an importer/dealers moniker on it. We see this all the time with boats being marketed by the yard name like CHB or FuHwa, the designers name like DeFever or Monk, or like in this case a name associated with a sales company.

Yes, I have found many names for Taiwanese Trawlers. I even found a 2010 Blue Seas 37, so they must still be putting their name on something.

 

[34Clipper]

There is one almost identical in Sydney on the hawkesbury river.
Same brand name from memory. If you look at the back of the hull on the starboard side you will see your HIN number and it will most likely start with CHB (Chung Hwa Boats), as did all of the “clipper” brand boats in Australia

 

[DeanOz]

There is one almost identical in Sydney on the hawkesbury river.
Same brand name from memory. If you look at the back of the hull on the starboard side you will see your HIN number and it will most likely start with CHB (Chung Hwa Boats), as did all of the “clipper” brand boats in Australia

Thanks Tim, it's very frustrating at the moment, as I live in a state of lockdown, whereby I can't move further than 5k from my home. I'm looking forward to the lifting of restrictions so that I can get out there and find the right boat! Thanks again for the tip

 

[34Clipper]

Oh I know, Vic isn’t in a good way.
If you are bored and want to see what leaky decks can do, read my post 34 Clipper pilothouse restoration. May be an eye opener

 

[DeanOz]

Oh I know, Vic isn’t in a good way.
If you are bored and want to see what leaky decks can do, read my post 34 Clipper pilothouse restoration. May be an eye opener

will do

 

[DeanOz]

Oh I know, Vic isn’t in a good way.
If you are bored and want to see what leaky decks can do, read my post 34 Clipper pilothouse restoration. May be an eye opener

Eye opener?! More like an eye waterer!!

Very interesting read and although I am a little handy, I'm nowhere near your level. I hope you have come some way since your post from August last year. You are the sort of person I would want to buy a boat from. I am finding that people are not overly confident with what maintenance has been performed on their boat over time - and that concerns me. But you are right - the info gleaned from the fine folk here at TF certainly does help open the eyes to things to look out for. Cheers

 

[BruceK]

I never thought a Blue Seas resembled a Clipper/Chung Hwa etc, looks more IG to me. But I really don`t know who built them. The cockpit was not deep enough for my wishes, but the FB looked ample. There was one for sale at Cottage Point on the Hawkesbury, it did sell.
That 2010 Blue Seas with a 4cyl Yanmar was for sale forever in Qld, looks like someone in Victoria bought it and wants to move it on already.

 

[DeanOz]

I never thought a Blue Seas resembled a Clipper/Chung Hwa etc, looks more IG to me. But I really don`t know who built them. The cockpit was not deep enough for my wishes, but the FB looked ample. There was one for sale at Cottage Point on the Hawkesbury, it did sell.
That 2010 Blue Seas with a 4cyl Yanmar was for sale forever in Qld, looks like someone in Victoria bought it and wants to move it on already.

Yes Bruce, I contacted the seller and asked questions re: maintenance, slips, etc and all I got back was a "the price is firm". I hadn't even asked whether he was interested in negotiations. Struck that from the list of ones to look at.

 

[JohnP]

I never thought a Blue Seas resembled a Clipper/Chung Hwa etc, looks more IG to me. But I really don`t know who built them.

To my eye she looks more like a Marine Trader to me than an Island Gypsy. Most Island Gypsies have a step down in the hull side about midship. Check out some IG 36 images on line. You will see what I mean.

 

[JohnP]

I never thought a Blue Seas resembled a Clipper/Chung Hwa etc, looks more IG to me. But I really don`t know who built them.

To my eye she looks more like a Marine Trader to me than an Island Gypsy. Most Island Gypsies have a step down in the hull side about midship. Check out some IG 36 images on line. You will see what I mean.

 

[DeanOz]

Yes JohnP, the Blue Seas 36 has a step up (or down depending on which way you are walking ) in line with the lower helm / windscreen.

By the way, your IG36 looks lovely!

 

[DeanOz]

Hey guys, can anyone tell me how I can inspect inside the walls and under the headlining for water damage using a snake inspection camera? I am in the market for a boat and will soon start inspecting them (once our curfew for C19 lifts). Obviously, I don't want to damage the vessel I am inspecting, but I want to get a good look inside, before surveying or buying her. Cheers!

 

[Southern Boater]

Hey guys, can anyone tell me how I can inspect inside the walls and under the headlining for water damage using a snake inspection camera? I am in the market for a boat and will soon start inspecting them (once our curfew for C19 lifts). Obviously, I don't want to damage the vessel I am inspecting, but I want to get a good look inside, before surveying or buying her. Cheers!

Endoscopes are very cheap these days, and probably better viewed on a tablet sized screen than a phone size, but get something with 1080 P. These will be good for fuel tank top and bottom views, engine sumps, rubber hoses tucked away and wiring clusters.
Composite cabin/superstructure can be easily viewed by removing vent cowlings externally, but usually something for survey day, not first viewings.
Water leaks are hard to cover up and easily seen at the lower corners of windows and light fittings as well as the very strong musty smell associated with rot and mould. There will always be a slight dieselly “boat” smell as it wafts up from the engine room.
If somebody is going to go to the expense of relining cabins, they will have repaired the point of water ingress.

Be realistic about your expectations though, these are older boats for not much money compared to newer versions, it’s all about compromise and commitment

 

[DeanOz]

Endoscopes are very cheap these days, and probably better viewed on a tablet sized screen than a phone size, but get something with 1080 P. These will be good for fuel tank top and bottom views, engine sumps, rubber hoses tucked away and wiring clusters.
Composite cabin/superstructure can be easily viewed by removing vent cowlings externally, but usually something for survey day, not first viewings.
Water leaks are hard to cover up and easily seen at the lower corners of windows and light fittings as well as the very strong musty smell associated with rot and mould. There will always be a slight dieselly “boat” smell as it wafts up from the engine room.
If somebody is going to go to the expense of relining cabins, they will have repaired the point of water ingress.

Be realistic about your expectations though, these are older boats for not much money compared to newer versions, it’s all about compromise and commitment

Thanks Southern Boater. Very helpful info there. I have already bought a borescope which I should receive shortly.

As for my expectations, I really just want a boat that isn't rotten from the inside out, or riddled with osmosis. It goes without saying that safety is the first consideration - I must feel that she is capable of staying on the water, not under the water. Cosmetic issues can be taken care of with some appropriate maintenance, which I quite like to do anyway and I have the time. From what I read here at TF, I may not have that much share time if I own an older trawler

Thanks again and I hope all is good down in Tassie.

 

[Southern Boater]

Thanks Southern Boater. Very helpful info there. I have already bought a borescope which I should receive shortly.

As for my expectations, I really just want a boat that isn't rotten from the inside out, or riddled with osmosis. It goes without saying that safety is the first consideration - I must feel that she is capable of staying on the water, not under the water. Cosmetic issues can be taken care of with some appropriate maintenance, which I quite like to do anyway and I have the time. From what I read here at TF, I may not have that much share time if I own an older trawler

Thanks again and I hope all is good down in Tassie.

Ha, yes, spare time will be a thing of the past, and you will have your share of frustration, but when you have wins, there is no better feeling!

We are fine down here now we have a bit of control over the virus, hope you folks get yours under control soon. We rely heavy on mainland tourism so hoping all borders are opened in the next couple of months.

Send me a message if you are coming over, we can catch up and go for a boat ride

 

[DeanOz]

Ha, yes, spare time will be a thing of the past, and you will have your share of frustration, but when you have wins, there is no better feeling!

We are fine down here now we have a bit of control over the virus, hope you folks get yours under control soon. We rely heavy on mainland tourism so hoping all borders are opened in the next couple of months.

Send me a message if you are coming over, we can catch up and go for a boat ride

Sounds like a plan to me! I'm coming over early autumn next year for a week (if us zombies are allowed). My ancestor was a sailor on the first fleet and settled in Tassie, so I want to check it out. I've been meaning to for years. I will definitely message you. Cheers