Help - Infamous Leaking Taiwanese Windows

[raymond.goff]

Hi All:
I found out my "new" 78 MT 34 has a bad leaking window above the master birth (in mine its a small "full" on the port side). We found it for sure after our brand new mattress got wet after some heavy rains.

The previous owner redid some fiberglass in 2005 and glassed in all the wood trim (we assume wood is still under there) around the windows. I think we may have to replace, but for now:

1. If I remove interior trim, what will I find for the windows underneath?
2. Do these usually leak due the slider or around the window? I have no water at my slip due to winterization, so hard to test.

You can see how the windows are glassed in the attached photo.

 

[Peter B]

You could trot out the good old silicone sealer and go right round the glass to frame outside join, and see how that goes, before ripping the whole window out. With my 1975 era boat, I'm never too proud to try something like that.

Trying to seal a leak around a window from the inside is unlikely to succeed, in my view.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Noooooooo.....ANYTHING but silicone! Use silicone and any future repairs could easily be completely doomed. Even $3.00 latex caulk from Lowes or Home Depot is better than silicone.

 

[alormaria]

Welcome to Marine Trader land.

In my boat, the aft sliding windows are mainly contained in the interior teak trim. The exterior trim is just there for decoration. The interior trim ring has hand made teak and velvet tracks that deteriorate over time. There is a hole for drainage and a little copper noodle (like pasta e fagolete) that does little to channel water outside. You can do almost all the repairs to the window from inside but you must be careful with the teak trim. It is irreplaceable. Just keep taking things apart until you hit solid wood.

Don't be surprised if the rot goes much farther than first suspected. I thought those two padded bulkheads that are on the outsides of the bunk were nice until I found that was not padding. It was rotted plywood. Pull out all the rotted plywood carefully out and trace onto nice outdoor or marine replacement plywood. Epoxy back in place. Replace the tracks with standard stainless tracks available in every marine store.

Calk it all up with something that will come apart in about 10 years and tighten it down. (No 3M 5200). The interior teak trim acts like a flange and is tightened into the bulkhead and the outside teak trim. You'll be doing this again in about 10 years. Good luck.

 

[No Mast]

RT is right, don't touch silicone.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Greetings,
Noooooooo.....ANYTHING but silicone! Use silicone and any future repairs could easily be completely doomed. Even $3.00 latex caulk from Lowes or Home Depot is better than silicone.

What he said!

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Greetings,
Noooooooo.....ANYTHING but silicone! Use silicone and any future repairs could easily be completely doomed. Even $3.00 latex caulk from Lowes or Home Depot is better than silicone.

What's the problem with silicone?

 

[grahamdouglass]

Google up, "Don Casey, sealant". He has a great article on what sealants to use for what purpose. I usually reference Casey before doing a job.

 

[No Mast]

What's the problem with silicone?

there are better sealants than silicone to begin with but the real issue is what happens after the silicone fails and needs to be replaced. it will be virtually impossible to get anything to adhere properly where the silicone was. You are creating a future leak by using silicone.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

there are better sealants than silicone to begin with but the real issue is what happens after the silicone fails and needs to be replaced. it will be virtually impossible to get anything to adhere properly where the silicone was. You are creating a future leak by using silicone.

Ah. Got it.

Thanks

 

[Martin J]

If they have the wooden frames and you want to keep the boat, call americanwindows.com A few years ago we had a couple of trawlers in the boatyard with the same problem and fitted new windows from them. At the time they did variuos duty cycles. The price of the new awlgripped aluminium windows was cheaper than the yard making new teak framed etc. It was literally ripped the old ones out, screw the new in, and fit the sealing ring on the outside. Job done!!

 

[Greatlaker221]

Sorry , but here is what may be underneath the veneer

Saving Tortuga: Walls and Windows OMG!

I have the owners cabin ready for the final finish. The admiral is now thinking of upholstering the walls with ultra leather. we shall see.

I rebuilt the walls so the new windows would have a solid wall to clamp on to. Other wise the rot is just covered up, and that is the most popular option.

 

[koliver]

Your MT may be built the way my C&L was, since the 44MT looks like the same boat as mine. The biggest difference between MT and C&L may have been the reputation of the yard at the time.
I have had to fix window leaks in each of the sliders. I did it all from the inside, as the outside frames seem to have been put on first. The windows sit in a SS track, with some plastic in the bottom to give it slide, some velvet in the sides to act as a cushion. The tracks were sitting on the teak sill, some were well bedded in a white goo, some not so much. That was where the water would get into the woodwork, so the track has to be removed and re-installed properly. In one of mine, the sill was badly rotted, so I had to cut out the rot and remake the sill of new wood.
A lot of work to fix, but not rocket science. Good Luck.

Oh,and NEVER allow silicone on your boat. It is far inferior to almost any other caulk you might use, but if used to keep out water, it will guarantee that there will be water under it after only a short time, and will be impossible to get rid of, and will prevent other, better materials from sealing up the leaks.

 

[MICH MIKE]

i have similar problem, after capt tolley and tub n tile caulk - still leaked
taped hefty bag over window on the outside, still leaked - so i assume leak is somewhere above,
i have taped a section of cheap plastic gutter to the interior wall to collect the drips.
a dockmate who once sold MTs said many were not sealed at the flybridge joint
ASIDE, he also said big money was made salvaging the heavy teak cradles MTs were shipped here on

 

[Peter B]

Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Noooooooo.....ANYTHING but silicone! Use silicone and any future repairs could easily be completely doomed. Even $3.00 latex caulk from Lowes or Home Depot is better than silicone.

Originally Posted by BaltimoreLurker
What's the problem with silicone?

there are better sealants than silicone to begin with but the real issue is what happens after the silicone fails and needs to be replaced. it will be virtually impossible to get anything to adhere properly where the silicone was. You are creating a future leak by using silicone.

If you folk had all read what I actually said, without jumping to conclusions, you would notice I said to try the silicone sealant around the external glass to outer frame join, as that is one easy way to exclude a simple leak through there, without affecting the actual frame to glass seal under the timber or the frame to inside wall seal. I have cured several simple leaks that way.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. PB. "...without affecting the actual frame to glass seal under the timber..." I beg to differ. You ARE, in fact compromising the whole area by using silicone. ANY future repairs will be next to impossible to successfully complete once any of the surfaces are contaminated with silicone UNLESS you re-use silicone. Forget about paint adhesion. I stand by my $2/tube cheap latex caulk suggestion if you want to try to exclude a simple leak.

 

[Mule]

OK guys, I found one reason for slider window leaks is on Tiawan Trawlers is us ignorant owners (me) do not perform the due diligence of keeping the 5/16" to 3/8" drain holes unclogged at the corners of the Windows. I just finished the large galley (up) window.

Managed to get the teak trim off in one piece thanks to Fein Tool. Replaced rotted wood and sawed off wood with 1/2" closed cell foam board, no cloth, filled and glued with thickened epoxy then painted all with more epoxy. Refinished window teak and replaced backsplash with PVC 1x4 + 3/4 round. Painted PVC and stucco textured wall paper as called for. Turned out good.

Added explanation: The cheap veneer teak plywood is covered with textured wall paper then painted a light almond. Makes all the drawers, trim, louvered doors really pop. Lightened up the dreary interior a lot.

 

[Pack Mule]

Very nice clean look .

 

[raymond.goff]

i have similar problem, after capt tolley and tub n tile caulk - still leaked
taped hefty bag over window on the outside, still leaked - so i assume leak is somewhere above,
i have taped a section of cheap plastic gutter to the interior wall to collect the drips.
a dockmate who once sold MTs said many were not sealed at the flybridge joint
ASIDE, he also said big money was made salvaging the heavy teak cradles MTs were shipped here on

I covered window with plastic, and I still got water. Once water is back on at the dock, I can try to find leak.

Weep Hole Question - Can someone take/share picture? My external trim was glassed (maybe just painted) over. If holes are in the frame, I don't have any. I will try to ease internal trim off this weekend. It will be too cold to do any exterior work.

RG

 

[alormaria]

The drain holes in the teak window trim are about 3/8 to 1/2 inch in diameter. Not something that would disappear with a coating of paint. They are located at the lowest aft-most corner of each window. They usually have a short length of copper tubing (1/2" long) with a "flared" end. If they aren't visible then something is different or wrong.

 

[raymond.goff]

The drain holes in the teak window trim are about 3/8 to 1/2 inch in diameter. Not something that would disappear with a coating of paint. They are located at the lowest aft-most corner of each window. They usually have a short length of copper tubing (1/2" long) with a "flared" end. If they aren't visible then something is different or wrong.

Thanks, I will take a closer look to see that they did to the windows.

 

[DHeckrotte]

With respect to the evils of silicone...I concur. However, the stuff does have its uses. It's a pretty normal sealant for architectural glass, good for a great long time. It's the stuff used for gluing mullionless glass window walls together. I've used it for gluing broken glass window panes back together. I've used it to glue the bottom pendant on a glass chandelier back on. I've used it to glue a broken ceramic soap dispenser back together.

That said, every source you can find, including manufacturer's reps., will tell you that you cannot ever get it off of the faying surfaces.

That also said, the ports in our sailboat were glued in with silicone by a PO. I was advised to simply buy new tempered glass and to grind the fiberglass down to a new, clean surface and rebed with an appropriate sealant. Being cheap, I cleaned the glass with Soft Scrub and handy solvents. All seems well after five years.

 

[Mule]

Take a drill and shoot a hole in each corner, at an angle for water to drain from, or just the down slope side. Best if you can over drill, fill with thickened resin then redrill a smaller hole. There are not any hard fast rules, mostly a SWAG.

 

[BruceK]

Unpaintable Silicone?

There are many versions of silicone, but the most common here are "Roof & Gutter" and "Bathroom". The former will take paint, the latter won`t(said he, hoping he remembered which is which ).
A temptation to use silicone is the reusable nature of leftover product vs the difficulty of preserving Sikaflex etc for later use. It`s fine in a boatyard where the tube gets used fast, or on big jobs. But, wastage pales into insignificance when I weigh the cost of a tube to properly seal a timber window defect against the cost of repairing the window timbers.

 

[Tomas]

My leaks were a result of the weep hole being directed thru a teak board. I removed the teak trim board, drilled thru the backing board with a 1 1/2" forstner bit where the weep holes are located, squared the holes at the top with a chisel, ran a waxed dowel rod thru the weep hole and glassed over the dowel, creating a drain pipe. I then bedded the new fiberglass drain in Teak Decking Systems sealant and replaced the trim board.

 

[bilge53]

Silly Cone

There are many versions of silicone, but the most common here are "Roof & Gutter" and "Bathroom". The former will take paint, the latter won`t(said he, hoping he remembered which is which ).

Actually, the architectural caulk is "siliconized" and will accept paint. "100% Silicone" will not. Bathroom silicone caulk is regular (100%) silicone with a mildew preventative in it. Never use it to seal an aquarium or it will be fish for dinner.

 

[Peter B]

Greetings,
Mr. PB. "...without affecting the actual frame to glass seal under the timber..." I beg to differ. You ARE, in fact compromising the whole area by using silicone. ANY future repairs will be next to impossible to successfully complete once any of the surfaces are contaminated with silicone UNLESS you re-use silicone. Forget about paint adhesion. I stand by my $2/tube cheap latex caulk suggestion if you want to try to exclude a simple leak.

Poppycock RT, poppycock. I'm talking about putting a fine smear of silicone where no sealant is normally used, on the outside of the glass just up to the inside edge of the outside frame. Not pretty I grant you, but fairly unobtrusive, can be painted over, and sometimes - not always - but sometimes, saves the day, if the rest of the installation is reasonably sound, and the water is just sneaking in between the glass and the outside frame.

 

[raymond.goff]

Here are some close ups. This is of the starboard windows in aft cabin, not the leaky port side. I didn't want to take off my plastic covering window in the 17 degree weather.

I know see weep holes as someone suggested I should in a previous post. Once it warms up I can test them.

 

[boatpoker]

With the Canadian dollar in the toilet I'd suggest you look at new "clamp-in" windows from Bomon .... a bargain if you're buying with US dollars.

I have just irecently completed installation of 17 of these in my boat and it's the third boat I've done this with over the last 25years, never seen a leak again.

 

[alormaria]

Here are some close ups.


View attachment 48813View attachment 48814

Them windows ain't natural. That's not standard issue Taiwanese workmanship. They been messed with.