Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-14-2023, 08:00 AM   #41
Senior Member
 
Captain K's Avatar
 
City: Foley, Alabama
Vessel Name: GITANA
Vessel Model: Sea Ranger 47 Pilothouse
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 306
This string, like so many others, is gut-busting funny. Love it! Never a dull moment on Trawler Forum. Shall we take a poll and have the majority define LOA? Or, heaven forbid, we simply look it up in the regs? Nah...too dull. John Cleese would make the perfect star for a BBC comedy series on this topic.
Captain K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 08:05 AM   #42
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain K View Post
This string, like so many others, is gut-busting funny. Love it! Never a dull moment on Trawler Forum. Shall we take a poll and have the majority define LOA? Or, heaven forbid, we simply look it up in the regs? Nah...too dull. John Cleese would make the perfect star for a BBC comedy series on this topic.
This may apply.....

__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 08:45 AM   #43
Senior Member
 
City: Wadsworth
Vessel Name: Mar Azul
Vessel Model: 1977 Hatteras 42 LRC
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 130
To me, Length Overall is what the documentation says it is. Length on Deck is what the marina wants to know for overhang.
PierreR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 10:35 AM   #44
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 6,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by PierreR View Post
To me, Length Overall is what the documentation says it is. Length on Deck is what the marina wants to know for overhang.

I've always known LOD to exclude bolted on features and only measure along the top of the molded hull/deck. As an example of a builder that gives good length values, the Beneteau Swift Trawler 35 is listed as 37'0" LOA and 35'6" hull length (which is generally very close to LOD). The difference being that the LOA measurement includes the anchor roller and anchor.



Oddly, in that example, Beneteau lists "hull beam" as 13'0" and "overall width" as 13'3". I've always known beam to be the widest point unless you're specifically talking about waterline beam. I've never seen a builder list the width of the hull and then go "oh yeah, but X part sticks out a little further".
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 10:43 AM   #45
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
I've always known LOD to exclude bolted on features and only measure along the top of the molded hull/deck. As an example of a builder that gives good length values, the Beneteau Swift Trawler 35 is listed as 37'0" LOA and 35'6" hull length (which is generally very close to LOD). The difference being that the LOA measurement includes the anchor roller and anchor.



Oddly, in that example, Beneteau lists "hull beam" as 13'0" and "overall width" as 13'3". I've always known beam to be the widest point unless you're specifically talking about waterline beam. I've never seen a builder list the width of the hull and then go "oh yeah, but X part sticks out a little further".
You are correct about LOD vs LOA although LOA would also include swim platform not just anchor. I could see the Beneteau example as being correct because beam is likely the widest part of the hull but there could be things that extend beyond that envelope. Railings could extend slightly owtward or maybe something on the flybridge. It could also be the width of the hull prior to adding the rubrail? In other words, it wouldn't fit in a box that was 13' wide.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 11:00 AM   #46
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 6,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by backinblue View Post
You are correct about LOD vs LOA although LOA would also include swim platform not just anchor. I could see the Beneteau example as being correct because beam is likely the widest part of the hull but there could be things that extend beyond that envelope. Railings could extend slightly owtward or maybe something on the flybridge. It could also be the width of the hull prior to adding the rubrail? In other words, it wouldn't fit in a box that was 13' wide.

I think the rubrail is exactly what causes the width difference. It's just odd that they chose to quote both numbers instead of just the widest one.

As far as the swim platform, it's molded into the hull on that boat, so it counts as part of the LOD. Otherwise the difference would be larger, like on my boat with a bolt-on platform. LOD is 38'0" (which the builder incorrectly listed as LOA). Actual LOA including the pulpit and swim platform measured out to 42'4". Of course, they did some other creative measuring on this boat (like claiming a draft that might be barely attainable with nothing on the boat, empty tanks, salt water, and the props rotated to not have a blade pointing directly downward). They also went against the modern trend of quoting sleeping capacity as "every place you could possibly squeeze a person" and listed it as 4 (accounting for 2 in the forward bunk, 2 in the aft) and ignored that you could (if desired) sleep 2 more on the factory provided fold-out couch in the salon. Really, the boat can sleep 6 in proper bunks, although 4 is the most I'd want on a regular basis.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 12:53 PM   #47
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
I think the rubrail is exactly what causes the width difference. It's just odd that they chose to quote both numbers instead of just the widest one.

As far as the swim platform, it's molded into the hull on that boat, so it counts as part of the LOD. Otherwise the difference would be larger, like on my boat with a bolt-on platform. LOD is 38'0" (which the builder incorrectly listed as LOA). Actual LOA including the pulpit and swim platform measured out to 42'4". Of course, they did some other creative measuring on this boat (like claiming a draft that might be barely attainable with nothing on the boat, empty tanks, salt water, and the props rotated to not have a blade pointing directly downward). They also went against the modern trend of quoting sleeping capacity as "every place you could possibly squeeze a person" and listed it as 4 (accounting for 2 in the forward bunk, 2 in the aft) and ignored that you could (if desired) sleep 2 more on the factory provided fold-out couch in the salon. Really, the boat can sleep 6 in proper bunks, although 4 is the most I'd want on a regular basis.
My swim platform is bolted on so not molded into the hull. Also, beam may be important to some evaluating and comparing different boats. A boat with a really thick rubrail may add many inches to beam which may not be as accurate as some may think.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 02:53 PM   #48
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26,342
The USCG defines "breadth" without rub rails......

Again, a well established definition, not the measurement for "fitting in a slip".

Though most boaters would be scared to death to take a slip where rub rails mattered too much.
Attached Thumbnails
Screenshot_20230114-144831_Drive.jpg  
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 04:07 PM   #49
Guru
 
tiltrider1's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,526
LOA is all about who is asking.

If its a marina, its from the forward most protrusion to the aft most protrusion.

Manufactures and the CG count what is incorporated into the construction of the boat. This would exclude items that are bolted on such as swim platforms and bow sprits. This is why swim platforms and bow sprits are sometimes part of the LOA and sometimes not.

There was a time when some manufacturers measured the boat from bow to stern along the outside edge. This resulted in numbers like 42' when the boat was only 40'9" by a more standard measurement process.

Then some owners have ego and they measure everything then add 2 feet for more bragging rights. Other owners are cheap and try to pass off the water line as their LOA.

So, what would you like your LOA to be?
tiltrider1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 05:28 PM   #50
Guru
 
SteveK's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 3,468
Entering the US, called customs to announce and was asked the length of the boat. At the time I had a 30 footer. OK, said the gentleman, is it 30 feet really or is that what you call it. I quickly said it is 29.6', which is the actual size when sold new.
He laughed and said had it been 30 feet or more I would have to charge you an entry fee.
So length does matter.

Oh crap, It has been a while since crossing into the US, what is that fee now. Hidden boating costs.
Quote:
A U.S. pleasure craft and a foreign-flag vessel without a cruising license (30 feet or longer in length) must pay an annual decal user fee of $27.50. User Fee Decals may be purchased online through the Decal Transponder Online Procurement System DTOPS.
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Sea Sanctuary-new to me 1992 Bayliner 4588
SteveK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 05:41 PM   #51
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26,342
Thats why you never take too much of the internet seriously when it comes to official terms.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 05:43 PM   #52
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 17,980
Formula lists our 41PC as 41’ LOA excluding the bow pulpit, then it is 43’. The OEM swim platform was flush with the transom. We added an extended swim platform so now it is 43’ plus the bow pulpit makes it 45’.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 06:47 PM   #53
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 26,342
Alterations can obviously change legal descriptions.....or not. Its spelled out in many places.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 06:50 PM   #54
Guru
 
SteveK's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 3,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
Formula lists our 41PC as 41’ LOA excluding the bow pulpit, then it is 43’. The OEM swim platform was flush with the transom. We added an extended swim platform so now it is 43’ plus the bow pulpit makes it 45’.
You are giving 2 footitis a new meaning
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Sea Sanctuary-new to me 1992 Bayliner 4588
SteveK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 06:57 PM   #55
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 17,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveK View Post
You are giving 2 footitis a new meaning
At $5K it was the cheapest 2’ upgrade we have ever done out of 24 boats…
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2023, 08:03 PM   #56
Senior Member
 
City: Wadsworth
Vessel Name: Mar Azul
Vessel Model: 1977 Hatteras 42 LRC
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 130
I could be wrong. I will read the documentation again.
PierreR is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012