define; "Overall length"

[Captain K]

This string, like so many others, is gut-busting funny. Love it! Never a dull moment on Trawler Forum. Shall we take a poll and have the majority define LOA? Or, heaven forbid, we simply look it up in the regs? Nah...too dull. John Cleese would make the perfect star for a BBC comedy series on this topic.

[backinblue]

Originally Posted by Captain K

This string, like so many others, is gut-busting funny. Love it! Never a dull moment on Trawler Forum. Shall we take a poll and have the majority define LOA? Or, heaven forbid, we simply look it up in the regs? Nah...too dull. John Cleese would make the perfect star for a BBC comedy series on this topic.

This may apply.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izAqFoLtzKM

[PierreR]

To me, Length Overall is what the documentation says it is. Length on Deck is what the marina wants to know for overhang.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by PierreR

To me, Length Overall is what the documentation says it is. Length on Deck is what the marina wants to know for overhang.

I've always known LOD to exclude bolted on features and only measure along the top of the molded hull/deck. As an example of a builder that gives good length values, the Beneteau Swift Trawler 35 is listed as 37'0" LOA and 35'6" hull length (which is generally very close to LOD). The difference being that the LOA measurement includes the anchor roller and anchor.



Oddly, in that example, Beneteau lists "hull beam" as 13'0" and "overall width" as 13'3". I've always known beam to be the widest point unless you're specifically talking about waterline beam. I've never seen a builder list the width of the hull and then go "oh yeah, but X part sticks out a little further".

[backinblue]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I've always known LOD to exclude bolted on features and only measure along the top of the molded hull/deck. As an example of a builder that gives good length values, the Beneteau Swift Trawler 35 is listed as 37'0" LOA and 35'6" hull length (which is generally very close to LOD). The difference being that the LOA measurement includes the anchor roller and anchor.



Oddly, in that example, Beneteau lists "hull beam" as 13'0" and "overall width" as 13'3". I've always known beam to be the widest point unless you're specifically talking about waterline beam. I've never seen a builder list the width of the hull and then go "oh yeah, but X part sticks out a little further".

You are correct about LOD vs LOA although LOA would also include swim platform not just anchor. I could see the Beneteau example as being correct because beam is likely the widest part of the hull but there could be things that extend beyond that envelope. Railings could extend slightly owtward or maybe something on the flybridge. It could also be the width of the hull prior to adding the rubrail? In other words, it wouldn't fit in a box that was 13' wide.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by backinblue

You are correct about LOD vs LOA although LOA would also include swim platform not just anchor. I could see the Beneteau example as being correct because beam is likely the widest part of the hull but there could be things that extend beyond that envelope. Railings could extend slightly owtward or maybe something on the flybridge. It could also be the width of the hull prior to adding the rubrail? In other words, it wouldn't fit in a box that was 13' wide.

I think the rubrail is exactly what causes the width difference. It's just odd that they chose to quote both numbers instead of just the widest one.

As far as the swim platform, it's molded into the hull on that boat, so it counts as part of the LOD. Otherwise the difference would be larger, like on my boat with a bolt-on platform. LOD is 38'0" (which the builder incorrectly listed as LOA). Actual LOA including the pulpit and swim platform measured out to 42'4". Of course, they did some other creative measuring on this boat (like claiming a draft that might be barely attainable with nothing on the boat, empty tanks, salt water, and the props rotated to not have a blade pointing directly downward). They also went against the modern trend of quoting sleeping capacity as "every place you could possibly squeeze a person" and listed it as 4 (accounting for 2 in the forward bunk, 2 in the aft) and ignored that you could (if desired) sleep 2 more on the factory provided fold-out couch in the salon. Really, the boat can sleep 6 in proper bunks, although 4 is the most I'd want on a regular basis.

[backinblue]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I think the rubrail is exactly what causes the width difference. It's just odd that they chose to quote both numbers instead of just the widest one.

As far as the swim platform, it's molded into the hull on that boat, so it counts as part of the LOD. Otherwise the difference would be larger, like on my boat with a bolt-on platform. LOD is 38'0" (which the builder incorrectly listed as LOA). Actual LOA including the pulpit and swim platform measured out to 42'4". Of course, they did some other creative measuring on this boat (like claiming a draft that might be barely attainable with nothing on the boat, empty tanks, salt water, and the props rotated to not have a blade pointing directly downward). They also went against the modern trend of quoting sleeping capacity as "every place you could possibly squeeze a person" and listed it as 4 (accounting for 2 in the forward bunk, 2 in the aft) and ignored that you could (if desired) sleep 2 more on the factory provided fold-out couch in the salon. Really, the boat can sleep 6 in proper bunks, although 4 is the most I'd want on a regular basis.

My swim platform is bolted on so not molded into the hull. Also, beam may be important to some evaluating and comparing different boats. A boat with a really thick rubrail may add many inches to beam which may not be as accurate as some may think.

[psneeld]

The USCG defines "breadth" without rub rails......

Again, a well established definition, not the measurement for "fitting in a slip".

Though most boaters would be scared to death to take a slip where rub rails mattered too much.

[tiltrider1]

LOA is all about who is asking.

If its a marina, its from the forward most protrusion to the aft most protrusion.

Manufactures and the CG count what is incorporated into the construction of the boat. This would exclude items that are bolted on such as swim platforms and bow sprits. This is why swim platforms and bow sprits are sometimes part of the LOA and sometimes not.

There was a time when some manufacturers measured the boat from bow to stern along the outside edge. This resulted in numbers like 42' when the boat was only 40'9" by a more standard measurement process.

Then some owners have ego and they measure everything then add 2 feet for more bragging rights. Other owners are cheap and try to pass off the water line as their LOA.

So, what would you like your LOA to be?

[SteveK]

Entering the US, called customs to announce and was asked the length of the boat. At the time I had a 30 footer. OK, said the gentleman, is it 30 feet really or is that what you call it. I quickly said it is 29.6', which is the actual size when sold new.
He laughed and said had it been 30 feet or more I would have to charge you an entry fee.
So length does matter.

Oh crap, It has been a while since crossing into the US, what is that fee now. Hidden boating costs.

A U.S. pleasure craft and a foreign-flag vessel without a cruising license (30 feet or longer in length) must pay an annual decal user fee of $27.50. User Fee Decals may be purchased online through the Decal Transponder Online Procurement System DTOPS.

[psneeld]

Thats why you never take too much of the internet seriously when it comes to official terms.

[Comodave]

Formula lists our 41PC as 41’ LOA excluding the bow pulpit, then it is 43’. The OEM swim platform was flush with the transom. We added an extended swim platform so now it is 43’ plus the bow pulpit makes it 45’.

[psneeld]

Alterations can obviously change legal descriptions.....or not. Its spelled out in many places.

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by Comodave

Formula lists our 41PC as 41’ LOA excluding the bow pulpit, then it is 43’. The OEM swim platform was flush with the transom. We added an extended swim platform so now it is 43’ plus the bow pulpit makes it 45’.

You are giving 2 footitis a new meaning

[Comodave]

Originally Posted by SteveK

You are giving 2 footitis a new meaning

At $5K it was the cheapest 2’ upgrade we have ever done out of 24 boats…

[PierreR]

I could be wrong. I will read the documentation again.