Broken Hearted for a Marine Trader

[bayview]

I suggest a non traditional approach. Finish the boat into a clean useable condition and use it. It will never be Bristol but can be nice with a simple approach.

By simple I mean scrub all the interior with anit mold stuff then prim with alcohol based shellac based primer. NOT KILLS. The shellac will seal in the mold and smell anywhere it is properly applied. Then paint everything off white. Paint or refinish some molding pieces as you can to make it look pretty. IMO those boats had too much varnished wood to begin with.

 

[Max Simmons]

I love challenges and bringing stuff back from near death, but that pic of the bilge would be enough to make me pass.

 

[SteveK]

Here is a nice boat
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=986526&postcount=1
so some elbow grease and $25K or buy this one ready to go.

 

[socalrider]

I like the idea of comparing to similar boats in better condition. I agree you don't need to do a Bristol restoration to have fun in a boat - we have a TT that's a solid 20/20 (looks great from 20 ft at 20mph). But... if it were me, I'd be worried about the time & effort it would take to even get to basic usability.

There's a big difference between buying a fixer upper that you can actually use as a boat while you're fixing it up, and one that's a long way from being useable. In the latter case, you'll still be paying yard or slip fees, and you're only going to go to the boat to work on it, and with your travel schedule the odds are stacked against you.

If I could get the same boat, useable, for $25k, there's no question which I'd choose. And I do think that if $25k is too expensive, the $0 boat is an even worse idea.

I agree that the surveyor is not likely to add much value. If you want a second set of eyes maybe get a shipwright to come out and pay by the hour. Have him write up some estimates. If you're worried about your uncle's reaction you'd have that as backup.

Or do it - but good on you for doing it with your eyes wide open! And start a thread!

 

[Art]

Get an ice pick. Go all over the interior and exterior to poke into wood areas. You will soon know what is rotten needing substancial repair and what is not.

Take a small hammer and go all over on decks as well as superstructure and around windows tapping to find dead sounds or sharp resilient sounds [keep the ice pick with you for prodding as you rap-a-tap in locations]. You will soon know what's solid and what is delaminating or rotten underneath even what seems to look solid on the surface.

Look over the engine carefully - oil, cooling water etc. With hammer and ice pick carefully check out as much area as you can reach on the stringers; especially where the motor mounts are fastened.

Question: What is the area of black dots in second photo just under water line at bow on port side. Is that damage; puncture holes or bow stem rot that shows through fiberglass cold lam?

My guess from photos shown: Hundreds of your hours and at least $20K + to get the boat into just basically reasonable shape. That's not including engine, transmission, fuel tank, water tank, black tank, electrical system, the heads, shaft, prop, rudder, steering and other costs that could amount to many, many more thousand$$$.

I've been offered "free" boats before. After careful consideration I walked away from each.

EDIT: Hey - after publishing this post... to 500% enlargement I went back and blew up the photo of black dots on port side bow just under water line. Better check that area very carefully - does not look good!

Best Luck!

Art

 

[Frosty]

I agree that the surveyor is not likely to add much value. If you want a second set of eyes maybe get a shipwright to come out and pay by the hour. Have him write up some estimates.

That is a much better idea - I take back saying "surveyor" in favor of socalrider's recommendation.

 

[SteveK]

Get an ice pick. Go all over the interior and exterior to poke into wood areas. You will soon know what is rotten needing substancial repair and what is not.

Take a small hammer and go all over on decks as well as superstructure and around windows tapping to find dead sounds or sharp resilient sounds [keep the ice pick with you for prodding as you rap-a-tap in locations]. You will soon know what's solid and what is delaminating or rotten underneath even what seems to look solid on the surface.

Look over the engine carefully - oil, cooling water etc. With hammer and ice pick carefully check out as much area as you can reach on the stringers; especially where the motor mounts are fastened.

Question: What is the area of black dots in second photo just under water line at bow on port side. Is that damage; puncture holes or bow stem rot that shows through fiberglass cold lam?

My guess from photos shown: Hundreds of your hours and at least $20K + to get the boat into just basically reasonable shape. That's not including engine, transmission, fuel tank, water tank, black tank, electrical system, the heads, shaft, prop, rudder, steering and other costs that could amount to many, many more thousand$$$.

I've been offered "free" boats before. After careful consideration I walked away from each.

EDIT: Hey - after publishing this post... to 500% enlargement I went back and blew up the photo of black dots on port side bow just under water line. Better check that area very carefully - does not look good!

Best Luck!

Art

That will buff right out. woodpeckers.

 

[Redhook98]

Going in the other direction, you could make a fare amount of change by parting it out. Lots of nice parts t here if the hull, decks, tanks and windows are toast.

 

[Mako]

... but to be offered a 34' boat free as a project to do up is a great opportunity.You never know what you can do until you give it a go.

Wow, I really have to disagree with this statement.

To the OP, if your uncle gives you the boat then sell it off. You can buy any number of 70’s Marine Trader 34s in the range of low to high $20k and they’ll be in good, usable shape.

Your uncle’s boat will cost you at least that much with you doing the work over the next couple of years

 

[Frosty]

EDIT: Hey - after publishing this post... to 500% enlargement I went back and blew up the photo of black dots on port side bow just under water line. Better check that area very carefully - does not look good!

I just did the same. Is it a trick of the camera or could those be actual holes (not machined) through the hull? I realize hydrolysis or blisters don't typically sink a boat, but is that going on? Or what are we seeing there?

If the hull is open to the breeze there, combined with what I see of the V-berth sole, I don't think this falls into the category of "clean it up and use it, then see where you stand."

 

[SteveK]

Either this boat lived in a sauna or it sank and was quickly retrieved, put away wet.
Or I have not seen a well worn boat before this.

 

[Art]

I just did the same. Is it a trick of the camera or could those be actual holes (not machined) through the hull? I realize hydrolysis or blisters don't typically sink a boat, but is that going on? Or what are we seeing there?

If the hull is open to the breeze there, combined with what I see of the V-berth sole, I don't think this falls into the category of "clean it up and use it, then see where you stand."

I can't figure those holes [at least they look like ragged, punched holes] in the lowest portion of bow stem area on port side. Looks like someone took a pick ax [maybe a heavy pointed straight bar] and pummeled the area. Seeing as boat sat uncovered for years... and seeing the devastating rot in forward cabin floor etc. Maybe the boat was filling with rain water and a pick ax [or something other] was used to drain it???

From what can be seen in photos... I call that boat an unmitigated total loss!

 

[koliver]

I can't figure those holes [at least they look like ragged, punched holes] in the lowest portion of bow stem area on port side. Looks like someone took a pick ax [maybe a heavy pointed straight bar] and pummeled the area. Seeing as boat sat uncovered for years... and seeing the devastating rot in forward cabin floor etc. Maybe the boat was filling with rain water and a pick ax [or something other] was used to drain it???

From what can be seen in photos... I call that boat an unmitigated total loss!

To my eye those holes are where the sprayed in gelcoat was not backed up with properly laid mat and roving. In the mold, the difficulty pushing the mat and roving into the pointy part at the stem was not overcome by the builder, leaving voids behind the gelcoat but in front of the hull layup. No danger of sinking, but when, not if, the gelcoat is breached, holes like those seen are the result. Hitting anything hard will breach the thin, non-structural gelcoat, but do no other damage
I had a sailboat with encapsulated ballast in a molded fg keel. I hit a rock with the bottom 6" of that molded keel and it collapsed into a void the size of a baseball. No other damage and the repair was simply to fill the void and carry on.
These things do happen.

 

[rslifkin]

Those dark spots might be holes, but to me they look like missing paint and gelcoat. Either from a build defect like koliver mentioned, or from an impact with something chipping the stuff off.

 

[psneeld]

Either this boat lived in a sauna or it sank and was quickly retrieved, put away wet.
Or I have not seen a well worn boat before this.

They exist all up and down the East Coast of the USA....no sauna (just warm humidity) or sinking.

 

[plittle2005]

Boat Angel

You could take the $40-50k in potential repairs and buy a 90's boat in good usable condition, and start using it right away.


Then recommend to the family that they donate it to Boat Angel or similar.
I did that with my '77 Carver and they even covered the outstanding storage charges up to that point (1 yr.)


Just looking at the fwd cabin sole......run, do not walk!

 

[socalrider]

You could take the $40-50k in potential repairs and buy a 90's boat in good usable condition, and start using it right away.


Then recommend to the family that they donate it to Boat Angel or similar.
I did that with my '77 Carver and they even covered the outstanding storage charges up to that point (1 yr.)


Just looking at the fwd cabin sole......run, do not walk!

Yup.

And don't despair - there'll be plenty of projects to take on with the $40-50k 90's boat too! You will not want for stuff to work on!

Feel free to pop over to San Diego anytime - my '79 CHB has plenty of interior carpentry jobs that need attending to if you're bored

 

[TollerTrawler]

I suggest starting with a marine insurer before you even look at the boat. In B.C. at least, I'm hearing insurers are declining to cover pre-80's trawlers, particularly wood, and first-time owners. Even if you're comfortable running without insurance, you can't get a marina slip without it.

 

[High Wire]

Could those black spots on the bow be blue bottom paint that flaked off over old black bottom paint? The shape of the hull worries me. It looks like troweled concrete. What's going on under there?

 

[Art]

Could those black spots on the bow be blue bottom paint that flaked off over old black bottom paint? The shape of the hull worries me. It looks like troweled concrete. What's going on under there?

Archie

Your input got me to go back and enlarge again to 500% [good high resolution photos]. Looking closely it appears the black spots are holes... for most it seems there is a bit of edge-depth. But... your outlook of black paint under red is a good guess! I also blew up the starboard side photo too and could see no similar black spots. Regarding the texture of bottom looking like troweled concrete - I have no idea what that wavering surface is due to. Gobs of bottom paint overlay? Blister repairs that were not smoothly applied?? Factory poor application of gel coat???

Bottom line, IMO - That boat is toast!!!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

 

[Frosty]

OP: Presuming you still want to shoot the breeze about possibilities, I have a question for you:

If this particular boat turns out to be a write-off (my suspicion), do you still want a boat? What I mean is, would you want a different boat at all? Or was it just about this boat, this nostalgia, this gift and if it's not a possibility you'd just move onto some other hobby?

 

[Art]

Hi Tickbait

Unfortunate the poor condition of this boat you have fond memories of.

Although there were strong words given in this thread for making sure you understand the boat's condition, probable needs and upside-down value... all is not lost. Just think how much you've learned to keep your eyes open for when reviewing other boats. And, I do hope you still decide to get into the world of pleasure boats.

As you can tell... TF members give their straight-on thoughts regarding personal impressions/feelings about most types of marine items. Sooo... you can feel assured that when you chose another boat you'd like our impression on - just ask. The more good photos the better!

Will be interesting to read your next post. Also, due to questions raised with no real answer yet - Can you tell us what the black spots are in front most portion of the bow just under the waterline? Holes, pealed paint, simply dark junk splashed on that area??

Happy Boat-Search Daze! Art -

 

[GoneDiving]

Now that you are over the emotional shock, spend some time crawling over the vessel and make an objective list of what needs doing. Having a surveyor and possibly a trusted mechanic help is a good idea. Together you should be able to come up with a ball park cost and time to fix. Would you be happy with double these numbers? If not be prepared to walk away.

Remember that all old boats need some, even a lot of work. I'd be surprised to find a ~40yo boat for sale that didn't need a full rewire, updated electronics and much TLC. Much of this can be owner completed with some education and elbow grease. If you are happy with the numbers above then you may end up with both a nice vessel and one with much sentimental value.

Good luck.

 

[sascudder]

I know those black spots. That is the bottom paint peeling off an epoxy barrier coat that was done on the boat. I know the troweled concrete look of the bottom paint as well. It is years of globbed on bottom paint. Not blisters. Don't ask me how I know these things.

 

[Art]

I know those black spots. That is the bottom paint peeling off an epoxy barrier coat that was done on the boat. I know the troweled concrete look of the bottom paint as well. It is years of globbed on bottom paint. Not blisters. Don't ask me how I know these things.

Regarding the spots - Why not similar on other side?

 

[stephenbandi]

Refit of 1979 Marine Trader 40

We recently purchased for a nominal price a neglected Marine Trader and decided prior to purchase to do a thorough refit. This includes a complete paint job, all new hoses and pumps, electronics, new fuel tanks, interior veneer, cushions/fabrics, transmission rebuilds, etc. In the end, I do not believe the boat would sell for what the refit will cost but the boat will be like new and I will have complete confidence in it. My recommendation is do a real budget for what you need repaired to make the boat yours, increase that by at least double and then decide whether to start or not.

 

[SteveK]

After 56 posts and the OP has left the house will this thread continue?
There has been a number of new threads started by noobs who then are gone after a few posts. Too bad.

 

[Frosty]

I know those black spots. That is the bottom paint peeling off an epoxy barrier coat that was done on the boat. I know the troweled concrete look of the bottom paint as well. It is years of globbed on bottom paint. Not blisters. Don't ask me how I know these things.

I won't ask, but I'm going to guess you are or have been in the yard where the OP's boat is stored and have seen it first-hand.

It didn't really look like (only) years of bottom paint to me, but I was only looking at the OP's posted photos and would obviously defer to someone who has seen it.

 

[Blissboat]

Reminds me of a late 1970s vintage 36' MT, single Lehman, that was offered to me for free. After two hours of crawling through rot, mold and rust, the value just wouldn't add up. Still, turning it down went against all my instinctive desire and optimism. It was the right choice though.

 

[BruceK]

I know the OP seems to be MIA, but imagining (or reaching out by seance) for Uncle`s thoughts might help.