Adding Bow Cleats

[RedRascal]

I am looking at a North Sea 34(CHB 34, etc.) and this particular vintage doesn't have bow cleats. It seems you use the samson post to tie off the bow and run the bow lines out through some chocks on top of the cap rail. I'd prefer to either have some bow cleats added to the cap rail or hawse holes with horns added thru the hull.

Question, how would one bolt on cleats to the cap rail, I don't see how you could get in there with a backing plate to make the cleat secure. Even going the hawse hole route seems problematic. I believe there wouldn't be any reinforcement between the hull and inner hull liner that makes up the bulwark. Does anyone have the secret to how they solved for this type of issue?

 

[LovetoBoat]

I went to the internet to look at a North Sea 34 - the one I looked at had an anchor on the bow - if your boat has an anchor locker can you not put cleats on top of the anchor locker and put a backing plate in the locker? My 2 cents...

 

[psneeld]

I would think if the cleats aren't right on the rail, might as well use the sampson post.


The only way I know of to get to inaccessible areas under hollow rails is to cut though the top a hole large enough to pass a suitable backing plate and patch the hole before adding the cleats. There are many ways then to do that.

 

[rwidman]

Each boat is different but you may find that a careful inspection of the interior will reveal some sort of panels that can be removed for access to install backing plates.

 

[RedRascal]

Adding an image for context of where I think a hawse hole and secondary bow cleat would be handy. The newer vintages seem to have corrected this issue.

Rwidman, I think you're right that there may be a panel in the v-berth that could provide some access.

Psneeld, I'd like to know what is under cap rail. Cleats are mid-ship and stern so I am curious how those are anchored.

I need to find someone that has taken the cap rail off.

 

[psneeld]

I believe it is hollow, but ya never know till you investigate.

I wouldnt put hawse holes in, they are a PIA for some things and not any better than good chocks.

If I did add cleats, I would put them about where the chocks are I think and just get rid of the chocks. You can always lead a line around or through a decent cleat if you need to.

 

[Nomad Willy]

If you have a stout hull-top and deck-top that overlep .. one inbd. and one outbd. you will have the full thickness is of the hull thickness and deck thickness together .. one on top of the other.

I removed cleats and metal Samson posts for a good re-fininh of the caprail. When I re-assembled the machine screws went right back in the holes that appeared to be tapped to match the threads of the attachment screws. Anyway they went back in and all has been well ever since. My first thought was how to get to the nuts. Didn’t hear any fall.

If I were you I’d remove some screws to see id they are all-thread machine screws.

 

[RedRascal]

I'll see the boat for the first time in person this weekend so I'll get a better sense of options after that. Cleats on the cap rail would be my preference over hawsehole cleats. Maybe somebody will stumble across this thread that has knowledge of the hull to deck joint on CHB 34s. With those boats I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is "it depends".

 

[psneeld]

Why the problem with using the Sampson post? Antything in particular?

 

[mvweebles]

While not a CHB, I added cleats to caprail of my Willard 36, about halfway between stem and midships cleats. W36 has an 8-inch "bulwark" formed by deck mold and hull mold, similar to CHB. Typically, these molds overlap beneath the caprail. Total thickness on my Willard is a bit under 3 inches.

As rslifkin states, you can often figure out how to get to the underside of these areas, but sometimes will tale surgery on cabinetry. As psneeld states, alternative is surgery on the deck - cut an access hole and either repair the fiberglass or install a round access port.

For our size boats without high freeboard, count me as one who strongly prefers big cleats atop caprail vs cutesy fairleads to cleats on deck (original setup on my W36) or hawse cleats that look shippy but are just about the slowest way to make a line fast.

Good luck. Hope you like the boat when you see her. CHB 34 was my first "trawler crush." I was into sailboats and saw a CHB 34 at a marina in Oxnard CA. You never forget your first crush - in my mind, that CHB is alongside Robyn Lacy in 7th grade.

Peter.

 

[koliver]

While not a CHB, my C&L44, also built in Taiwan, has bulwarks made up of the overlapping vertical parts of the Hull and Deck standing together about 10" above the side decks. At the bow, I can see from the anchor locker, up into the void space between the two parts, and at the stern there is access from the lazarette, where that access has permitted the addition of a pair of utility cleats and an electrical outlet, all suitably backed with properly sized backing plates. The mooring cleats are attached to the decks fore and aft, and to the inside of those bulwarks at the midships hawse holes. Those have proven robust enough for 41 years use to date.
YMMV

 

[RedRascal]

Looked at the boat today and I didn't see an easy way to get into the void between the hull and deck liner to add cleats. Seems like some 4" access ports in the deck liner would need to be added to create access for mounting cleats. Or as mvweebles suggested cut a hole and re-glass.

The drawback for me of just having the samson post would be any scenario where the bow line needs to get tied off above the bow. Examples could be going through a lock or rafting to a boat with a higher bow. In those scenarios I could see keeping a bow line in a chock problematic as the boat moves back an forth. I think it would also be more difficult to single hand because you have more distance to cover between the samson post and stern.

The boat had some funky issues that I am not so keen on tackling. The lack of bow cleats just ended up to be one more on the list of to do's.

 

[SeaMoose]

There is no hull to deck joint on these, the two halves of the hull included the deck, and bulwarks. The cap rail sits on top of fiberglass.

Had the midships clear pull out, drilled big holes, filled them 3/4” full of epoxy/cabosil, dropped cleat and screws into the goo, 15 years later the client is still rock solid.

Back in the day they built things crazy thick, they didn’t know how long they would last.

 

[nobles9596]

I took a midship cleat off of mine when I was replacing the cap rail. There was 3-4 wood, bronze screws holding it on.