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Old 01-06-2022, 09:56 AM   #21
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Looking forward to your progress. You have taken on a challenge. I hope you are retired, have the boat in a heated shed so you can work on at your schedule during the winter without being weather dependent.

Sweat equity can accomplish the otherwise impossible. I guestimate 500 hours of your time will bring it back to new condition.
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Old 01-06-2022, 10:43 AM   #22
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Max - I just sent you a PM with a link to some photos showing deck re-work on my boat by the PO.
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Old 01-07-2022, 10:03 AM   #23
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Max - I just sent you a PM with a link to some photos showing deck re-work on my boat by the PO.
Regards,
Nick
Thanks Nick. Looks like Dave did an awesome job. You acquired a lovely boat!
The pictures were helpful and the Wife and I spent yesterday afternoon reviewing each photo. We feel a lot better about our boat seeing that Dave had many of the same problems and did a lot of the work that we are planing to do.


We realise....We are not alone!
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Old 01-07-2022, 10:07 AM   #24
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My next post was going to be about an additional list of items that my wife and I would want to repair on this boat. This is not the same as the previous list which were the glaring issues that were on the boat as it was being sold. This list is more of what we'd like to do to make it comfortable for us. But I think now would be a good time to stop and give you a bit of background of what we are aiming to achieve with this boat, before I get into the second list of items “nice to have” items that require time and money, I would like to explain what we really want out of this boat.

As I mentioned in my first post, my wife and I love the RV lifestyle. Our intention here is to transfer our getaways from the RV into a boat. The intention is to do the exact same thing as we did with the RV, but on the water instead of on the road.

Our typical RV travels would be extended weekend adventures. Short hops lasting a week, and longer trips of two or more weeks.

Because I am still working, the majority of our travels up to now have been extended weekend trips. My work allows me to take vacation days singly, and I use some of them on Mondays in the summer. So that gives us a four-day weekend, leaving Friday afternoon and returning Monday night. We would take one or two long trips in the summer as time allowed. Now as retirement looms, we would like to take more and more of the longer trips rather than extended weekend trips. Summer 2021 woke us up to the fact that we really (and I mean REALLY) love the beach. Not being able to get our RV to the beach during our 2021 travels is what prompted my wife and I to consider boating, which ultimately led us here.

Our objective for 2022 is to fix up the boat so that it is operational. We know it will not be perfect, but it will allow us to enjoy using it such that we can start taking as many extended weekend trips as possible. Up to now, my boating experience has been with small sailboats and powerboats. We have owned a 21 foot Sylvan, and still own a small sailboat that has a sleeper, toilet and cooktop. We used to take the sailboat for many 3 day trips until we got our first pop-up. Then the boat took a backseat because it just wasn’t as comfortable as the trailer(s), and we could take longer trips in the trailer.

Now that we are getting a larger boat, we KNOW that there is a lot we don’t know about big boating. So for summer 2022, our intention is to get up to speed and learn slowly. We also know there will be lots and lots of little issues that will spring up as we start to use this boat. Short hops will allow us to learn to use the boat as well as find and fix any issues while still close to home-base. In the following year, 2023, we're hoping to take longer 6 week vacations on the boat.

I don't expect this boat to ever be perfect, and for summer 2022 it will be a far-cry from perfect. We just want it operational so we can start enjoy weekends on the water. No everything will be fixed in 2022, but if it floats and the motor runs and we can sleep in it, we will be good .

So this year our repair scheme it's broken down into four phases.
  • Phase 1: Will be to build (& rebuild) some of the interior components that we brought home with us for winter hibernation. Basically from now until spring.
  • Phase 2: will be getting as much work as possible done on the boat while it’s on the hard from spring until launch. In Canada it could be anywhere from the beginning of April to end of April. Launch for us will be our Victoria Day / American Memorial Day weekend.
  • Phase 3: Once it's in the water, the third phase will be to take short vacations on the boat while continuing to do the work on the boat. Of course by that stage, our focus will be to enjoy ourselves but as I can never sit still for very long, I can see myself getting the itch to do something early in the morning or late in the evening when the wife is taking it easy. So that's the plan.
  • Phase 4 will be in the fall when the boat comes out of the water. Whatever big jobs need to be done, we can get some of these jobs tackled on the hard until the boat is wrapped and put away for the winter.
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Old 01-07-2022, 10:46 AM   #25
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Good On you Max, we sound very similar in reasoning and ambition. I have a couple projects to complete prior to the maiden voyage. Then our goal is to enjoy her for the summer on Lake Champlain, while doing minor things(I can't sit still too long either). Then pull her for the winter again but somewhere closer to us. Right now it is four hours away at a marina/boat yard that doesn't allow boatwork on the weekends. I too still work full time and usually adjust my vacation days to get 3 and 4 day weekends.

Look forward to your updates!
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Old 01-08-2022, 10:19 AM   #26
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The “Other” List:
Okay folks. I have an admission to make.
I am a “listmaker”. Not all the time. But when situations require it. Restoring this boat has a lot of “to do” items, and we need to prioritise them.

The first list I shared on page 1 shows the problems that were apparent when we got the boat.
Below is a list of improvements that my wife and I identified for both the short and long term.

Between the first list and this list, I have 90 major items/tasks. Each one obviously needing to be broken down into smaller steps/tasks.
Finally, I have these all on a master spreadsheet and we have taken to prioritizing these tasks, and then breaking down these major tasks into a series of smaller sub-tasks.
As mentioned in my 2022 “four-phases”, some of the tasks will have to be done ASAP on the hard, some of the minor tasks I can do while on the water, and others can wait a few years.
  1. Purchase and Install Windlass
  2. Wire windlass and switches
  3. Portholes replace on Port sides
  4. Porthole replace on front V berth
  5. Fabricate new Vberth cushions
  6. Remove Stateroom drawers and replace with new wall unit
  7. Relocate Diesel Heater
  8. Vberth Locker Shelves
  9. Lower Staircase storage drawers
  10. Install Headliner in stateroom
  11. Install Deck Lighting sides and stern
  12. Aft gunwale entrance door rebuild
  13. Side rails install
  14. Scrape/Sand & Varnish gunwale rails
  15. Install Solar(3 banks)
  16. Hook up new Nav Lights
  17. Solar powered vent in engine bay
  18. VHF Radio install
  19. Depth Gauge operational
  20. Install new Start/Stop Buttons top and bottom
  21. Install new Horns and buttons top and bottom
  22. Install Battery Monitor
  23. LED lighting in Engine Room
  24. Replace Fuel Lines
  25. Service Fuel Filters
  26. H Channel and Windscreen
  27. Flybridge Hatch: make it sliding
  28. Solar powered vent in Flybridge
  29. Assemble/Install Bimini Top
  30. Renovate galley. Relocate appliances and build new cabinetry
  31. Install new, larger refrigerator
  32. Remove galley cupboards and open port windows
  33. Strip and polish stove-top. Reinstall
  34. Gut and replace shower stall
  35. Vanity Cupboard over toilet
  36. Shower Stall ceiling light
  37. Sand and Varnish Swim Platform
  38. Bottom Coat
  39. Swim Platform Ladder
  40. Install Bow Thruster
  41. Name boat
  42. New Registration board
  43. Rub Rail: strengthen or replace
  44. Fabricate and Install Dining chairs
  45. Fabricate dining chair seat cusions
  46. Restore and Install Dining Table
  47. Remove & relocate water heater
  48. Install Headliner living quarters
  49. Make sofa into Sofa-Bed
  50. Repair Front window mounts
  51. Install water tanks
  52. Install Tankless Hot Water
  53. Install Low-Point Drains and HW bypass
  54. Remove Bathroom hatch and replace
  55. Remove front deck side flanges and patch
  56. Remove ugly STBD portholes, patch and replace
  57. Wheelhouse Folding Chair
  58. Window Wiper motor replace and Install

I know some of you folks would look at the two lists I have shown on this thread and walk away shaking your head. Others have already noticed that I am a “glass half full” kind of guy. I cant wait to get at these tasks because….I truly enjoy doing this kind of stuff.
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Old 01-08-2022, 06:28 PM   #27
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Whew... 👏
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Old 01-09-2022, 09:27 AM   #28
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What happened to this boat?

This will be my last post of the condition of the boat as it was. (I promise! )

I will call this one “enough to make you weep” aka “what the hell happened to this boat??”

Before, during and after the purchase of this boat, I needed to learn more about this model boat. In my search for information on MT 38 trawlers, I did a lot of internet searches for information. I happened to be searching for information on Lehman diesels and came across a thread on engine compartments right here in this forum. In that thread, I came across a photo that looked like a Marine Trader 36 engine compartment. I looked closer and realized “holy crap, that’s MY boat”. Not like “my” as in “same as my model”, but my EXACT boat. The fellow posting the photo called himself “kyle911” on these forums.
I looked into kyle911 and found that he lived in Ontario not far from where I live, and was a live-aboard boater back in 2014 on the boat I now own. I looked into his post history and on another thread, he happened to post a video of his live-aboard poor weather conditions that winter.
From there I looked up his youtube channel and found he posted a video called “a tour of my boat”. It was not the greatest video, and it wasn’t much of a tour, but I was fascinated to see the condition of the boat when he owned it. Kyle was owner #3 of this boat. Owner #1 was the original owner hailing from New Jersey. Owner #2 bought it from him and brought it to Ontario where he owned it for quite a few years.
In Kyle’s video, I was dumbfounded to see how BEAUTIFUL this boat was, “once upon a time”. There was so much beautiful teak on the boat and the layout was perfect. Somehow, it went to hell somewhere after that video was taken to the present. From what I hear from the guy who sold it to me (owner #5), a lot of the ugliness in the boat was like that when he purchased it. So somewhere between owner #3 and #4, this boat went completely to hell.
I took some still shots from the video (again, not very good video) but I did the best I could. Then I looked through my photo library of the boat that we have taken to put together a before/after collection.
The following photos are not intended to prove anything, other than to share with you guys what I have found when looking up the history of this boat. At least I can share with you readers what I think of its past, what I think of its present, and what I would like to do going forward. I don’t think the boat will ever be restored to its old glory, but we will do our best to make it look as nice as we can. After all, it can only get better from here (I hope!!)
M&H

The Dining seating: In this photo, we can see the boat had a U shaped seat cushions with a pedestal table in the center of the U. This dining area was located in the rear port side of the salon. It has lovely green leather or vinyl seat cushions and nice warm-wood table. I love this layout and am disappointed with what is in the boat now. Also note the beautiful hurricane lamp in the corner.


Here is how it looks now. The seats and table are gone. In its place is a large cabinet that holds the hot water tank, and an ugly looking desk that is useless, though I did host a few zoom meetings for work from that desk after we acquired the boat and were working on it . I plan to remove the cabinet and relocate the hot water tank back to where it belongs in the engine compartment. I also want to build a new dining area in that part of the boat.



Here is the galley
. It looks pretty basic. One thing to note is the cabinetry that divides the dining area from the galley. The camera was never pointed down so I never got a look at where the fridge might have been or what kind it was.



The after picture shows a new countertop. Everything is painted blue. The dividing upper cupboards are gone and instead two cupboards have been mounted on plywood that covers the two windows. The fridge is ill-fitting and 120V. The cooktop/stove was replaced with a different unit that is ugly but still works. Our plans here are to get a 12V high efficiency refrigerator, get rid of the upper cabinets that are there and remove the plywood covering the windows. We really want those windows back. To make up for the loss in cabinetry, I would like to rebuild the base cabinets to add sliding drawers for kitchen utensils. Also, the lower cabinets are not that well laid out. If we get rid of the upper cabinets, we would have to make up the lost storage by improving the lower cabinets to make the storage space more efficient. We might gut the entire kitchen and start from scratch. At the moment, this is not a priority.



The electrical panel.
All I said when I first saw the video was “look at all that beautiful wood!!” Also note the hurricane lamp.


Here is what it looks like now.
All that beautiful teak is gone and instead there is an ugly black panel made from paperboard.
The lower half of that wall is also paperboard and painted blue like the rest of (parts of) the interior.
I don’t know what to do here, other than to just leave it alone for now. Behind the panel, I will be completely re-doing the electrical because right now it looks like a dog’s breakfast and many of the connections are what I would consider poorly done.



This is the Sofa, and you can see parts of the electrical panel in this shot as well. This is the rear starboard side of the boat.
Like the dining area, the cushions are a nice green leather or vinyl with separate cushions at the rear. There is also a Sig Marine heater near the rear-entrance door on the right of the photo.


In the after photo, the cushions are replaced with very well worn and threadbare blue and white foam cushions.
We have already purchased some fabric and The Admiral will be making new covers for the cushions over the course of this winter. Sometime in the future, I would like to make this into a folding bed.
Also under the frame is a whole bunch of useless crap (speakers, a vent that goes to nowhere, etc) that serves no function. Our long range plan is to get rid of those items and replace them with pull-out cabinets so that we can get to the under-seat storage without having to lift the cushions every time.


This is the lower wheelhouse. Other than the mess, “look at all that beautiful wood!”. Also note the Hurricane lamp. There are no lamps anywhere on the boat at present. We wish we still had them, not because we want to use them, but because we feel they give the boat some character.


Here, the teak is gone and blue-painted plywood in its place. The teak dash is gone and once again replaced with paperboard painted black. The Tach is missing too. Only two metal and non-illuminated buttons on the front. One is for start. The other does not work. No button for stop. PO had to jump into the engine compartment and manually pull the stop lever when we tested the engine before we purchased the boat. Yikes!!
There is also a mess of wires coming up on the right. Some of those wires also appear in Kyle911’s video. I have no idea why they are there but I will definitely be re-routing or getting rid of these wires!
I will be fabricating a new dashboard with a full complement of gauges. Also, I have purchased nice big new and illuminated start, stop and horn buttons, in green, red and yellow for both the lower and upper wheelhouse.


My wife was near tears when she saw the before video and what a beauty this boat once was. The only silver lining in this whole before/after debacle is: I keep telling my wife" "But we got the boat for a great price.." Virtually bargain basement price, and perfect for our budget. Had the boat been in the condition it appears on the video, the purchase price would have been a lot more. A LOT LOT MORE!. Perhaps more than we were willing to spend.
Attached Thumbnails
KyleMT01.jpg   KyleMT01a.jpg   KyleMT02.jpg   KyleMT02c.jpg   KyleMT03.jpg  

KyleMT03b.jpg   KyleMT04.jpg   KyleMT04a.jpg   KyleMT05.jpg   KyleMT05a.jpg  

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Old 01-09-2022, 09:59 AM   #29
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I looked at a Marine Trader 36 when I was shopping.
Yes it had all the teak of the before pictures BUT the teak did not look shiny new like those before pictures.
All the teak looked tired, dated and worn out. IMO that happens from lack of maintenance as in oiling every few years. Also from sitting in the cold and damp.

A previous owner like many here did not care for teak and rather than clean and rejuvenate, painted it. You may find teak under that paint. A good sanding can bring it back. The electrical panel with pressboard is another quandary, WHY was that done.
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Old 01-09-2022, 10:26 PM   #30
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Very sad evolution indeed. Clearly whoever did it had no real appreciation of the unique qualities of teak, thought it looked 'old-fashioned', and was attempting to 'modernise' the appearance, rather than apply the elbow grease necessary to return the teak to its former glory.

Not to worry - what's done is done. However take heart from the fact that you can/could do what I did. In restoring the rotted cabin walls, ruined from leaking windows, etc, and the water-stained teak lining the for'd cabin, nearly all the original teak lining the walls of the saloon and for'd cabin had been removed and, in the case of the saloon, replaced with marine ply. In the for'd cabin, the PO had not got round to doing anything but removing all the damaged wall lining and just leaving the bare ribs and black tar-like coating of the inside of the hull.

I decided to bite the bullet, obtained a qood quality teak veneer type sheeting from a nearby timber yard, and completely covered the marine ply walls in the saloon, and, with the same sheeting, relined the for'd cabin walls, taking advantage at the same time while doing this, by stuffing the voids between the ribs with insulation, which greatly improved the temperature in that cabin, and reduced the water lapping sound at anchor as well. Amazing how good it all came up. Teak beading to cover joins and minor defects did wonders.

Although I have no before photos, if you can imagine the walls in the for'd cabin showing bare off-white fibreglass ribs about 8cm deep, and the surface between just mat black, and all the walls in the saloon just an unpainted pale plywood colour, and then see how both areas appeared in after photos below, it will give you a good idea of what is possible.
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 01-10-2022, 01:46 PM   #31
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Hi Guys. I really enjoy everyone's feedback.
One of the biggest motivators I have is seeing what other's have done to their project boats. It's comforting to know that we are not as crazy tackling a project boat as some people seem to infer...LOL
One of our biggest inspirations has been a guy from Germany with a youtube channel called "my first boat". We absolutely love the attention to detail he puts into his project boat.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUs...1aNglyj8-sInSw

We have watched all his videos, many more than once.
I am always looking for ideas and inspiration.
Thanks!
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Old 01-10-2022, 05:12 PM   #32
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One work Max

Wow.
Wendy and I are following this. Who needs YouTube when we can follow this.

Spring is just around the corner, lets hope its and early arrival.
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Old 01-10-2022, 06:30 PM   #33
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Wow.
Wendy and I are following this. Who needs YouTube when we can follow this.

Spring is just around the corner, lets hope its and early arrival.
HA!! You found us!

(YellowPiper and his lovely wife were instrumental in swaying our decision to get into Trawlers! Thanks C&W! )
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Old 01-10-2022, 06:36 PM   #34
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Replacing the Rudder; "The Straw that Broke the (previous owners) Camel's Back"

The previous owner got this boat as a project boat and did some work as well as invested a bit of cash fixing whatever problems were big at the time.
On his last outing last summer, he got his boat stuck in some weeds within the Marina and in the course of maneuvering his boat, the rudder fell off.
That was when he decided to sell it (eventually to me... )
When we bought the boat, the PO was in the process of trying to remove the rudder post from the boat. He told us a new rudder was going to be about $1000. When I looked at it, I figured I could probably make one myself for about $600
When I looked closely at the rudder, I figured it would cost even less as all I would need to do is purchase just the missing lower shaft and a new rudder plate. Then all I would need to do is machine a collet to connect the lower shaft to the top shaft and...Done!!. Or so I thought.


Then I had another idea.
Why not try to find the missing rudder and shaft?
I am a certified diver and I am also an advanced drone operator. Between flying over the marina and diving, I was sure I could find it.
Unfortunately, the marina, being as accommodating as they were, said "no". Diving in a Marina is not safe due to risk of electrocution from improperly wired boats. And flying over the marina would not be allowed unless I applied for a permit due to proximity of controlled airspace.
So back to “make a new one”. I sourced out a shaft and plate. Machining the collet would be a piece of cake from scrap brass I had kicking around. I thought I would take another look at the remaining shaft to make sure the collet would fit and soon realized that the PO had loosened the shaft retaining rings of the upper shaft. A closer look led me to realize that the shaft was beaten down about 2” from where it normally rests. This means the collet idea is no longer feasible as the nub would not be long enough to hold a collet once the shaft was returned to its proper position.


I would now need to remove the upper shaft and replace the entire assembly with a one-piece shaft, as well as make a new rudder plate.
The top part of the upper shaft has very specific machining. It is a squared-off top that allows the rudder tiller to hold the shaft securely, as well as a pair of drilled holes top and bottom that hold the brass shaft retaining collars.
Knowing the PO had a heck of a time trying to get the shaft out, I could see the top of the shaft was deformed from where it was beaten down in an attempt to force the shaft down and out.


I’m sure the PO didn’t realize that there was a packing gland holding the shaft in. I opened the packing gland and picked out the packing rings They were hard as a rock. What was worse, the deeper I went, the harder they got. I pulled out 6 rings. The shaft still would not come out because the top of the shaft was deformed. I took a grinder to the shaft, and gave the shaft one shot of WD-40 and the darned thing just fell out of the shaft and onto the gravel below.


Fast-forward a few days and I was in the process of sourcing the materials for a new shaft and rudder when I got a call from the Marina. They found my rudder!
I picked up the rudder and matched it up the upper shaft that I had in hand. It was then I discovered how poorly the upper shaft was made.



The upper shaft and rudder are mated through a pair of flanges. I discovered that the upper shaft and flange were poorly mated. (Sorry, I did not take a close-up photo) . Because it was so poorly welded, the darned thing was bound to fail (which it did).
So I cleaned it up and contacted a buddy of mine that could weld stainless.
He did an awesome job. The top of the flange/shaft is double fillet-welded. And the underside is equally well done. This should last for a few seasons.




Although the rudder is fixed, I don’t like how the current configuration is set up. I especially don’t like that the rudder is not to spec. The rudder is supposed to be supported top and bottom. I feel that the current configuration puts a lot of undue stress on the rudder flange as force is applied on the rudder by the prop, especially when the rudder is turned and the prop-blast is slamming against it.

I plan to install a lower support as shown in the photo below, but I will do that in a few years as the current fix should last a while.
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Old 01-10-2022, 06:45 PM   #35
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Good luck...hope you paid well less than $20,000.
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Old 01-10-2022, 06:50 PM   #36
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Good luck...hope you paid well less than $20,000.
Oh yes!! Much, much less than 20K. And that's in Canadian dollars too!
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Old 01-10-2022, 06:52 PM   #37
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Looking forward to your progress. You have taken on a challenge. I hope you are retired, have the boat in a heated shed so you can work on at your schedule during the winter without being weather dependent.

Sweat equity can accomplish the otherwise impossible. I guestimate 500 hours of your time will bring it back to new condition.
I think you mean 5000 hours as my boat was in much better condition and after 10 years there is still more to do as 1/2 the projects double in complexity before you can even get to them.

Thats why so many project boats fail.

Of course if on the hard till done and with the proper work shed full of tools that time can be reduced some.
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Old 01-10-2022, 07:37 PM   #38
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I think you mean 5000 hours as my boat was in much better condition and after 10 years there is still more to do as 1/2 the projects double in complexity before you can even get to them.

Thats why so many project boats fail.

Of course if on the hard till done and with the proper work shed full of tools that time can be reduced some.
after seeing the 2nd list my first estimate is off. But 5000?. Even 500 works out to 62.5 days at 8 hours doing it non stop. The OP said he still works, that gave me pause as starting/stopping short hours, returning/restarting adds up wasted hours. That is what causes these projects to fail.
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Old 01-10-2022, 09:51 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Max1 View Post
[B][SIZE="4"].....Although the rudder is fixed, I don’t like how the current configuration is set up. I especially don’t like that the rudder is not to spec. The rudder is supposed to be supported top and bottom. I feel that the current configuration puts a lot of undue stress on the rudder flange as force is applied on the rudder by the prop, especially when the rudder is turned and the prop-blast is slamming against it.

I plan to install a lower support as shown in the photo below, but I will do that in a few years as the current fix should last a while.
Absolutely right. The rudder should be supported by a foot and lower bearing. The way my rudder is set up in the pic is a good example of how it should be. I can't believe anyone set that boat's rudder up without the lower support.
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Old 01-11-2022, 09:15 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I think you mean 5000 hours as my boat was in much better condition and after 10 years there is still more to do as 1/2 the projects double in complexity before you can even get to them.

Thats why so many project boats fail.

Of course if on the hard till done and with the proper work shed full of tools that time can be reduced some.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soo-Valley View Post
after seeing the 2nd list my first estimate is off. But 5000?. Even 500 works out to 62.5 days at 8 hours doing it non stop. The OP said he still works, that gave me pause as starting/stopping short hours, returning/restarting adds up wasted hours. That is what causes these projects to fail.
Either way you slice it, there will be a lot of labour invested in this boat. Right now my labour is cheap, since I enjoy doing the work.
The aim of this boat is to enjoy summer getaways with it. I mentioned earlier that we will have it on the water in 2022 and it will be a long way from being "nice". But it will allow us to enjoy summer on the water. We will keep working on it, but on a lesser scale during the summer.

The big jobs will be tackled in the spring and in the fall when the boat is on the hard. Unless another perfect boat shows up at at amazing price, we plan to keep this one for a while.
  • Could this project take years? Yup!
  • Could it be that we might get fed up with all the work and ditch the boat? Yup!
  • Could it be that we will stick with it and year over year have a great summer on the boat regardless of its state of renovation? Yup!
Only time will tell
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