Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-01-2023, 03:42 PM   #161
Senior Member
 
Max1's Avatar
 
City: Toronto
Vessel Name: Bermuda Belle
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 36 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
Sorry, coming in on this thread a bit late in the day, but if it is a seat that folds right down you want, I presume you had thought of, and discarded, this original idea the CHB people used..? The pole, attached to a hinge via a plate that supports the seat, , swings back flush with seatback. I'll try to fine and underneath shot.
This is genius. I wish I knew about this before

I haven't thought about it because I am new in the trawler community and haven't seen much of what's out there. I'm always looking for new things and new ideas. Thanks for sharing the CHB method!
Max1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2023, 04:34 PM   #162
Senior Member
 
Max1's Avatar
 
City: Toronto
Vessel Name: Bermuda Belle
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 36 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 268
I guess now is the time to catch everyone up on the biggest challenge we faced last year- The front deck.
It was a triple-whammy. In my frustration working on this part of the boat, about 1/2 way into the teardown of the front deck in the sweltering heat of June and July, I coined the phrase “Idiot Fiberglassing”

“Idiot Fiberglassing” is a term I use to describe someone who has a leak in their boat and decides to fix it by fiberglassing the areas that are suspected of leaking. Fair enough to want to fix a leak, but “Idiot Fiberglassing” is going through all the work and effort of applying fiberglass, but either a) not prepping, b) applying it in a sloppy manner or c) applying fiberglass in the same place as the old fiberglass, bringing it up to an abutment, but then not sealing the abutment. What is the point of fiberglassing in this manner? What a waste of time. And the boat still leaks. Hence ““Idiot Fiberglassing” I can tell you, I muttered this phrase in disgust lot under my breath for about 30 days last summer working in the boatyard under a relentless summer sun!


The problem started with leaks into the cabin from above. The stateroom ceiling had evidence of water intrusion.


Here is a good example of idiot fiberglassing. The hatch was covered in resin and cloth but not sealed. Would it have been so hard to remove the hatch, fiberglass, then butyl and replace the hatch?.... Nope. Idiot fiberglassing says: “Lets fiberglass over everything!! That should stop the leak….. Um…NO!


In addition to the hatch, we knew there was leaks elsewhere in the top deck. The other area that had water damage was portions of the port side of the V berth wall.


The stateroom port wall looked to be in better shape so I hoped it would hold out for a few more years. My initial plan was remove the rotted wood, clean it up, and fiberglass the repair. Wishful thinking.


Once I started working on the stateroom ceiling from the inside, I could see I had a worse problem on the port wall as well. The V berth wall was also worse than I thought. And the head, located opposite the stateroom on the port side, had evidence of water intrusion from above as well . Things got worse once the admiral started poking into the wood on the port wall. It looked to be in good shape and I chided her for wanting to chip out the rotten sections. It was rotten. I was hoping all I would have to do is cut out a small piece of rot and replace it. Unfortunately, the more she poked the worse it got. This was becoming a nightmare.
Max1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2023, 04:50 PM   #163
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,012
Greetings,
Mr. M. Hoo boy! We had a similar but not as extensive a problem with our '74 Marine Trader DC. Bad fore and aft decks with rot migrating to the side cabin walls. I really hate to suggest it but I think it would be best, in the long run, to remove the FRP already applied, take out the hatches and re-build from the inside out using new structural members and new plywood for skinning. THEN apply FRP to seal the whole shebang.


I can appreciate the heat factor and THAT may be lessened by use of a tarp covering raised sufficiently so you can stand and work underneath.


I also wouldn't be so hard on yourself. NOT idiot fiberglassing, newbie fiberglassing. Looks like your resin flashed way too soon (too hot) thereby not giving you enough time to properly work it into the cloth and around the edges. The shade should help with that as well as using less catalyst hardener when mixing. You might also put your mixing pot into a larger container with ice water in it.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2023, 11:31 AM   #164
Senior Member
 
Max1's Avatar
 
City: Toronto
Vessel Name: Bermuda Belle
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 36 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. M. Hoo boy! We had a similar but not as extensive a problem with our '74 Marine Trader DC. Bad fore and aft decks with rot migrating to the side cabin walls. I really hate to suggest it but I think it would be best, in the long run, to remove the FRP already applied, take out the hatches and re-build from the inside out using new structural members and new plywood for skinning. THEN apply FRP to seal the whole shebang.


I can appreciate the heat factor and THAT may be lessened by use of a tarp covering raised sufficiently so you can stand and work underneath.


I also wouldn't be so hard on yourself. NOT idiot fiberglassing, newbie fiberglassing. Looks like your resin flashed way too soon (too hot) thereby not giving you enough time to properly work it into the cloth and around the edges. The shade should help with that as well as using less catalyst hardener when mixing. You might also put your mixing pot into a larger container with ice water in it.
Hey RT. This wasn't my handiwork. This is how I got it. It was a hot mess

These are my catch-up posts from last summer's work.
By the way, I did end up getting some shade when the final glassing was done after the repairs were made. But I’m getting ahead of myself. More to come
Max1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 11:57 AM   #165
Senior Member
 
Max1's Avatar
 
City: Toronto
Vessel Name: Bermuda Belle
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 36 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 268
Carrying on with the deck issue, here is photo of the stateroom ceiling and the poor installation of the hatch. Inadequate support and inadequately sealed.
(the temporary light was installed by me to give me some lighting as we worked on the boat into the darkness every night last spring...)


First thing I did was remove the hatch. It was a lot of work as the fiberglass was laid OVER the hatch. I used a heat gun and knife to soften the FG and cut it away from the hatch.


Next I had to tackle the diesel heater chimney in the same manner, Fiberglass was laid over everything..sheesh! This is what I meant about idiot fiberglassing not stopping the leaks. Water would still weep into the boat!


Here is a good shot of how well the heat-gun was at softening the FG and cutting/lifting it off.


I also removed all the caulking from the butterfly hatch.





All the hatches and chimney removed. Note the flanges on either side of the top deck. I hated these stupid things as they held the water on the deck and ultimately, led to more leaks. I don't know who put them there or why, but its inadequacies will be revealed in the next few photos.


Another look at the water dam these flanges created.


A look from below. WHY??


Removed these suckers. Good riddance. Notice the opportunity for leaks abound!
Max1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 11:09 AM   #166
Senior Member
 
Max1's Avatar
 
City: Toronto
Vessel Name: Bermuda Belle
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 36 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 268
Still posting catch-ups from last summer's work....

Sometime in this boat's past, someone once thought of repairing the leaks and soft deck walls by adding a second piece of plywood to the side and then fiberglassing over it using fiberglass mat. As you can see on the last two slides from the previous post, the second layer of ply on the side meant there was a gap between the new ply and the top deck. I am guessing that is where the idea came to add flanges in the previous post. These flanges were screwed to the side to make up for the difference in thickness. Of course, the flange was sealed but over time it leaked again. Now that the flanges are is gone, I started removing this second layer of ply which by the way had some rot in it.


Once the second layer of ply was removed, I think I'm looking at the original side. When inside the boat, there is a lot of rot in this wood.


Now I'm starting to remove some of this material. Some of the open areas seen here are from when the Admiral started picking away from the inside. Back then we didn't know the true extent of the problem so, so when we got to this part here we realized the whole wall had to come out.


I used a circular saw to cut the periphery, and started prying out the rotten wall.


All the rotten sections have now been cut out. At the bottom there is a flange which is the actual fiberglass deck. Thankfully this was still solid, which created a seal from the decking to the sidewall.


Another angle of the same cleanup. Notice the 2x4 inside the stateroom. This was put in place to act as a support from the top since the entire sidewall is now gone.


I decided to build up this wall using two layers of 11 mm plywood. The two layers will be glued and screwed. I found this to be very advantageous, because of the Curve that the wood is required to take would be easier into separate thinner pieces than one thick piece. Also note the conduit that I embedded into the decking. I discovered that most of the rot that was found on the previous plywood was because the wood was put into the trough of the deck. Water draining down the trough would be wicked up into the wood. By adding the conduit, it acts as a channel to drain the water down the deck and not get absorbed by the wood. Later I added drill holes to the conduit to allow water to weep in and drain.


Here's a close up shot of the trough I was talking about. There is a lot of rotten dust still in there that I will clean up before installing the conduit. At some point in the next few years, all the teak decking will be removed, but for now we intend to leave it for the time being.


Another shot of the conduit. The conduit is nested into the trough and does not need any glue or screws. This is the first layer of ply, there will be one more layer placed on top with staggered cuts so that the seams do not overlap.


This is the second layer of ply. It will eventually be trimmed down to the correct height.
Max1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 02:25 PM   #167
Senior Member
 
Action's Avatar
 
City: Phoenix, AZ
Vessel Name: Enigma
Vessel Model: 1997 Wellcraft Excel 26 SE
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 318
OK you impressed me.
__________________
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM   #168
Senior Member
 
Max1's Avatar
 
City: Toronto
Vessel Name: Bermuda Belle
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 36 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
OK you impressed me.
Heck, I even impressed my self.

Last year when we started working on the boat in May 2022, there was SO MUCH work to be done, there were mornings I got up and my mind was numb. I was so overwhelmed with work that I did not know where to start. I could see no end in sight and the matter of the rotten wood on the front deck over the Vberth & stateroom was not anticipated. The more we looked, the more rot had to be removed. Some days I just wanted to sit and cry. But we kept at it. Bit by bit, day by day.
Planned launch dates came and went. End of May.. HA HA.. good one! That was never going to happen. Mid June? Nope. Nowhere near done. End of June? No. that was when we started tackling this rotten wood issue. Start of July? Nope.
At that point I told my wife we were launching in mid July "I dont care what is still not finished"
We busted our buts and in mid-July, we launched. The rest of the summer on our boat was heaven.
This spring we still have more work to do.
But between now and that day, I will continue to make catch-up posts of last years work. Hope you like it
Max1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:01 PM   #169
Senior Member
 
Action's Avatar
 
City: Phoenix, AZ
Vessel Name: Enigma
Vessel Model: 1997 Wellcraft Excel 26 SE
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 318
+1

Action
__________________
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
europa, marine trader, project

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012