Lifepod upgrade

[Greg QS]

Hello all. There has been a lot of chat on the lifepod batteries. This is my project. I have researched this extensively. I have utilized MTS in Maryland, a Victron dealer . I have also used signature solar for batteries, and Victron's information site.

My 8 -8d house bake is dead. I have been loosing batteries all season.

boat set up will be the following.

1 new independent led acid battery for starting each genset. total of 2 with dual bank charger for led acid. existing

1 24 volt battery bank for starting 2 main engines . Use of 2 new 8d led acid agm. existing

New house bank . EG4-LL Lithium Battery (V2) | 12V 400AH | Server Rack Battery Two 3 battery combinations in server rack with bus bars. This will give me 2400 ah of power total.

Victron Lynx distributor system utilizing the lyx shunt for communication from batteries to the system. new

Victron multiplus 120/3000/125 amp inverter charger programable for lifepod existing

Victron cerbo gx, for system communication existing

Victron 7" touch screen display new

Victron solar charger and solar panels. (Planned in for future install system will be able to accept seamlessly )

350 amp alternator existing with new wakespeed 500 charge controller fully compatible with the Victron system. with balmar alternator protect ( in case of a sudden bms shudown.)

First attachment is from the Victron website, Basic system Mirroring what I am doing.

Second attachment is the simplified version of what I have to do. Each battery represents a battery bank.

 

[Greg QS]

Miscellaneous Victron parts arrived on Friday and the batteries are to be here within the hour.

 

[Greg QS]

OK I'm on the hard. Thank god I have a boom on the boat. It would have been a real pain to get the batteries on board. Have all the batteries in the boat and the server rack boxes. I'm glad they were out of the 6 battery racks, I think the 2 -3 battery server racks fit better . I can install the batteries Horizontal and acess them through doors under the bed Instead of lifting off the mattress. I had to disassemble the cases , they would not fit through the vip cabin door. All re assembled now an ready to start laying stuff out. !!

Ok the plan now is

1. Install the server racks (2) under the vip bed, centerline of the boat. Assessable though the doors under the bed. Each with a master breaker for the bank.

2. Install the Victron lyns shunt with the lynx distributer system Each connection in and out is fused with a mega fuse. The lynx distributor system acts as the + & - bus bars with each connection fused. Much better than what i have now.

3. run dedicated cables to the alternator and install a wakespeed 500 with talks to the Victron equipment . Alternator proctor from balmar, and an alternator temp sensor from wakespeed.

4 All new battery cables in red and yellow 4/0. All cables to battery boxes equal length + & - wires.

5. Install temp senor to battery compartment that goes into my Maretron system to monitor the cabinets environment. Also planning to put in some dc fans on a simple thermostat to turn on at a pre set temperature. It would be sweet if I could do that directly though the Maretron system..

6. add a 7" touch screen for the victron system. This will give me full control and acess to the battery system even if my MFD's are off.

A lot of moving parts here. Figuring out layouts and stuff. Once I finalize the layout I will start posting some pics. Its going to take some time. I am out of the water and doing the usual pre season stuff. So my time is split.

 

[twistedtree]

I'm looking forward to following along. Sounds like a really nice system.


I can think of a couple of things you might want to watch out for, based on bumps I have encountered along the way.


Everyone says to make the batter cables the same length so you get equal resistance to each, and therefore equal current. I discovered that can be interpreted two different ways, so worth clarifying. All the positive cables need to be the same length, and all the negative cables need to be the same length, but it's not necessary for the positive and negative cables to be the same length. It does no harm if pos and neg are the same length, but if there is an opportunity to shorten the cables by making them different lengths, that has a clear advantage. When my boat was built the yard made all cables the same length, and the result was probably 2' more cable in all the negative cables that was necessary.


I have found that Victron products do not accept 4/0 cables and cable lugs without modification. I can't say it's true with 100% of their products, but it's true for those I have dealt with, and a friend who does this stuff for a living was belly aching about it too. The cables barely fit, or don't fit at all through holes and opening. Adjacent 4/0 cable lugs make contact with each other, and you need to cut them narrower to fit. And 4/0 cable lugs will contact the body of a mega fuse, so you need to grind down the end of the cable lug until it clears the fuse body and lays flat on the conductor. When I redid the cables between my BMS and batteries, I switched to 3/0 cable and lugs and everything fit as expected. So I'd suggest test fitting a 4/0 lug and small segment of cable to see how everything fits, and consider using 3/0 instead.


You also mention vertical vs horizontal orientation of the batteries. I'm not sure how all that plays out with your equipment, but all the prismatic LFP battery cell manufacturers that I have explored require that the batteries be operated upright, and not on their side. Presumably that requirement carries through to the battery itself, but if there is any possibility that you are orienting the cells on their sides, you may want to reconsider.


Good luck on the project!

 

[twistedtree]

I thought of another thing to keep in mind. You mention Maretron, and there is a fundamental incompatibility between Maretron and a number of other manufacturers, including Victron. It may or may not be an issue for you, depending on what you want to do.


Here's more info


https://www.mvtanglewood.com/2023/04/maretron-nmea-2000-incompatibilities.html

 

[luna]

The battery cable length issue for separate batteries that you want to parallel by connecting each battery to a battery bus (in my mind the best way) can also correctly be defined as, the length of the sum of the Positive and Negative conductor from each battery to the bus, must be the same.

If your buses are, as they should be more than am arms length apart, it makes no difference if the the positive and negative on Battery #1 happen to be 6 feet each and the negative on Battery #2 happens to be only 3 feet long, as long as the positive on Battery #2 is 9 feet long. Equal total round trip length is what matters.

 

[twistedtree]

The battery cable length issue for separate batteries that you want to parallel by connecting each battery to a battery bus (in my mind the best way) can also correctly be defined as, the length of the sum of the Positive and Negative conductor from each battery to the bus, must be the same.

If your buses are, as they should be more than am arms length apart, it makes no difference if the the positive and negative on Battery #1 happen to be 6 feet each and the negative on Battery #2 happens to be only 3 feet long, as long as the positive on Battery #2 is 9 feet long. Equal total round trip length is what matters.

Interesting. You might be right. I guess I've always found in practice one battery is furthest away and that pushes the length of both cables. But there are probably physical layouts where what you describe would be an advantage.

 

[Greg QS]

Batteries everywhere

Rough layout of mounting

Hope the directions are not like stero directions. LOL

 

[Greg QS]

Going live

What an event.
Finally went live on the batteries.
I balanced them out at 50 % charge and it took the multiplus about 7 hrs to charge.
Solar is being worked on now. Choosing panels and laying out. Probally more a fall project. I have hooked up the wakespeed 500 but have not done a test run on that yet. Powered at idel no error codes. Good I guess. LOL

I still have to mount the 7" Victron screen. Just hate putting permanent holes in cabinetry. Thinking of mounting under the piolet house console.

I installed 2400 amp hours of power. That will give me 1920 amp hours usable at 80% We are going out on the first weekend trip , this weekend. Curious to see how long batteries last in the real world. My girl is a pig on power. Guages report 36 amp hours sitting on the hook without the inverter running. That is full electronics. At 36 amp hours that's 53 hours ! I have no clue what the inverter will draw . Wife always has the tv, wifi, and radio going. We will see.

I am sure i can knock the amp hrs down. On the hook I could turn off multiple screens, turn off sounders , etc. Im sure there is a power savings mode on the garmin stuff. At least 1 screen needs to stay on for the anchor alarms and of course the sat radio.

Installed under the vip center line bunk . Tight location so a bitch to photo.

 

[Hyperion]

Upgrade looking good. I have a similar project I'm planning on mine but with less capacity. I was thinking of exactly those server rack batteries but was a bit worried about their viability in a marine environment. I guess the fact you put them in the cabin and you likely keep the boat climate controlled at all times likely makes it a mute point. Any thoughts on your considerations for that choice?

 

[CharlieO.]

How are you for airflow around your equipment?

 

[twistedtree]

Wow, I'll bet that was fun space to work in - not. Nice job!

 

[Greg QS]

Yes got a few cramps and choice words at time.

Air flow is good around the equipment . I installed a muffin heater fan on a stat in the compartment as a safety. I can see all the temps of the compartment on my Victron gear.

I am in the cabin space with the equipment. The victron unit is in a steel case and has been there from 2019 with no visible corrosion. The same for washer and dryer. The boat is temp / humidity controlled all year. Im not seeing any problems with this type of install. I mounted the cabinets on isolation pads ( rubber pads) to minimize vibrations. But really these type of boats do not take hard poundings like go fasts.

You cannot beat the value . 1600 per battery for 400 amp hr of power.

 

[w8n4sun]

You mentioned solar will be in your future, and that will help with recharge rates.

Do you have plans to install another charger? With only the Multiplus it will take all day to charge you house back from 1-2 days on the hook.

Thanks for posting your installation, very impressive work.

 

[Hyperion]

You cannot beat the value . 1600 per battery for 400 amp hr of power.

That is why I'm considering them. In my case, my boat is also climate controlled 24/7 but not the engine room. I am considering putting servo controlled louvers in the ER vents for the halon system. If I do then I would leave one of the ER hatches and the door open so the AC can reach it and remove humidity. Otherwise I would need to install them in my forward cabin closet.

 

[Greg QS]

Went Live this weekend on new batteries.
I got to the anchorage on sat night. We went off the genset at 530 pm. Used the boat off the inverter and did not change our habits. Tv, wifi, microwave , coffee maker, 1 frige , 1 drink cooler, 1 chest freezer. ships computer 24hrs ,all used as we normally do. I even had a small charger charging the dingy battery. (dont leave the key on in your dingy it kills the battery dummy) Put the Garmin stuff on sleep so the monitoring stuff would ring through. We stayed the night and left the anchorage at 1230 pm in the afternoon . That's 20 hours and the bats were at 71%.

Had a 7 hour run back and the bats were at 87% . The wakespeed 500 went out on an error . I have not looked into that yet. So I was only charging on the inverter.

 

[Darlin]

I am planning to replace my 5 battery type 31 x 100 ah combined agm start-house bank this fall and am considering lithium. It is primarily charged by 500 watts of solar but also has a 50 amp shore power charger and 2 alternators connected. Has anyone made this conversion and used lithium for a start bank?

 

[ranger58sb]

I am planning to replace my 5 battery type 31 x 100 ah combined agm start-house bank this fall and am considering lithium. It is primarily charged by 500 watts of solar but also has a 50 amp shore power charger and 2 alternators connected. Has anyone made this conversion and used lithium for a start bank?

We have not. This thread may be useful background, since our thruster needs current similar to starting a big diesel.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/lfp-thruster-inverter-66835.html

There ARE some lithium batteries (with BMS) out there that are being marketed for SOME starting applications.

You might want to start a new thread on the topic, so any more recent updates to the marketplace could be highlighted.

-Chris

 

[Greg QS]

Went out for a week on the hook. Too hot and wife wanted ac for 24/7 . The week before we did 3 days and still 50% left in batts. Made coffee , used toster oven, microwave. Quite impressive. Had a freind stop in from Liberty landing electonics. Checked out the boat and loved it. He told me to add another inverter to pick up the ac circut and not re wire to the panel. The panel is pre wired with an additional 30 amp inverter panel. Looks like more wire in my future. LOL

 

[Barking Sands]

Sounds fantastic! I am sure it makes the boat much more versatile and useable. I will be doing mine soon. Cant wait.

 

[DevDoc]

I've been wondering about this...the ability to mate servo-rack batteries and their internal BMS with an integrated system. Can the EG4 battery BMS communicate over can bus with Victron units (seemingly so). Any idea why the Wakespeed alternator regulator went out? Did you look at the SOK batteries? I had read that they are better prepped internally for bumps and such for RV applications. I assume that the same would apply for marine applications.

Following with interest!