Marinas That do not allow Pets?

[JohnP]

Have any of you guys been to a Marina that bans Pets? We have cruised up and down the East Coast and up in the New York canals thousands of miles with our precious crew a ten year old Shih Tzu named Pixie. She is about 10bs gentle and quiet and nice. All the Marinas and public docks we visited over the years never had a problem with dogs. In fact we have had pets on boats for at least 30 years. Well we finally found one a Marina that bans Pets. Yikes. It is our home Marina we have been it for 20 years! It is a condo Marina In Toms River NJ. The first ten years we rented from an old friend than we finally bought our slip. The original bylaws we were given had no pet ban. The Marina also has condominiums for living in with their own bylaws, somewhere along the line about 4 years ago they amended them with the Pet ban and the signs went up in the parking lot. About two years ago our dock master put some no pet stickers on the gate.
This 4th of July we were confronted about having our Pixie on our boat. So the slip is going on the market it is useless to us. We can't throw our dog in a crate and go enjoy the boat with her in prison. So what I want to know from you folks if this is the only Marina in the Country that bans Pets on boats. Thanks

 

[psneeld]

Condo marina's have some real doozies as managers.

When I worked for a marine electronics firm, a manager at a local marina refused to let us park in the parking lots near the owners boats (even though the owners weren't going to come down till the "season" months away. So we had to hump tools and equipment a pretty long ways around the marina to the far docks.

The manager in question I would have no doubt would have outlawed dogs at the marina if there was ever an issue with one, even just a yap bark or slight aggression or accident on the docks.

Other than that, no to dog bans..... most marinas I have been at welcome dogs and many even have a few "regulars" (dogs) unleashed and lazily wandering or snoozing around.

 

[O C Diver]

You may simply want to contact a lawyer. My slip in Florida is within a condominium association. Changing the bylaws requires unanimous approval of the slip owners. This isn't something the governing board can do. A simple visit with a real estate lawyer well versed in condominium association law may tell you whether it's legal or not. In Florida, in a situation like this, the state prosecutes the board for unlawful violations of state law.

Now if you misspoke, and it wasn't a change of the bylaws, the board may or may not have the power to do that.

Certainly worth an hour with a good lawyer before selling.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

This link would lead me to believe in NJ, condo boards could impose such a rule, especially for a given area like the marina or pool area. The may not maybe change them for your condo, but public areas may be fair game....at least in NJ.

https://nj.cooperatornews.com/artic...ticle XI, Section,amend and publish rules and

 

[JohnP]

This link would lead me to believe in NJ, condo boards could impose such a rule, especially for a given area like the marina or pool area. The may not maybe change them for your condo, but public areas may be fair game....at least in NJ.

https://nj.cooperatornews.com/artic...ticle XI, Section,amend and publish rules and

Interesting read-- Condos are tough--Glad I don't live there.

 

[mvweebles]

It's pretty common to get around no-pet policies by declaring your pet a "service animal" with a cheesy internet certificate and a red vest. Sort of pisses me off (apparently the ADA frowns on it too), but condo boards especially are very concerned about law suits. The ability to interrogate an owner about the nature of their disability is extremely limited.

Peter

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. mv. Yep. Emotional support animal. Good call.

 

[psneeld]

Emotional support (cheap easy net certificate or certified by mental health person) versus Service animal (I believe a certificated training school ) are 2 separate thing and places can and do differentiate between the 2 (housing has to allow both but in not public areas). Gets a little complicated so a bit of research is wise.

Not all but some, and the more abused, the more wary the restrictors.

 

[mvweebles]

Emotional support (cheap easy net certificate or certified by mental health person) versus Service animal (I believe a certificated training school ) are 2 separate thing and places can and do differentiate between the 2 (housing has to allow both but in not public areas). Gets a little complicated so a bit of research is wise.

Not all but some, and the more abused, the more wary the restrictors.

Ergo the concern from the ADA about abuse. They do not want truly handicapped people with mobility issues with a highly trained service animal lumped into the same category as Fred & Ethel who don't want to pay $75 to have Muffy fly on the plane with them; or who don't want to be turned-away from an apartment they want to rent.

Unfortunately, differentiating between an actual service animal trained to perform a mobility task and a fake 'emotional support companion' quickly runs afoul of ADA laws and into legal hot water - you simply cannot easily ask the proper questions to distinquish between legit and fake. Law of unintended consequences. There are ways to enforce it, but the path is narrow with a treacherous legal precipice on either side gleefully watched by a cottage industry of plantiffs' attorney who do nothing but troll for murky infractions seeking (and winning) quick settlements. Ehibit #1 for Tort Reform......

Trust me, Home Depot isn't crazy about having their customers step in feces or urine from a claimed service animal, but they prefer that to the difficulty of controlling it.

I think it stinks, but it's a well-worn path others in the OPs shoes have taken.

Peter

 

[JohnP]

I wonder if I brought our dog to the boat by dinghy from a nearby public dock, and she never set foot on the docks, common areas or parking lot if that would be a violation. She is astro turf trained for cruising days. Does the association own the water? Or just the docks,pilings, and facilities. When we navigate into the fairway leading to the slip areas there are no signs banning pets, just coming in on foot from The parking lot. Is the boat not our private property in its slip? Or only when the lines are removed and we are ten feet away? Just a thought.

 

[Comodave]

I don’t understand how they can arbitrarily change the rules without the condo association members agreement. I agree on checking with a lawyer.

 

[psneeld]

"Can a HOA board change the rules without member approval?

Typically, the board does not need approval from the members to enact a rule or make a rule change. The only vote will come from the board members themselves. If the board reaches a majority vote as defined in the bylaws or CC&Rs, then the rule will come to pass."

"You might think HOA rules is just another term for bylaws and CC&Rs. And while a lot of people do use these terms interchangeably, there is a difference. An association’s operating rules and regulations (HOA rules) are additional rules that are not covered in the bylaws and CC&Rs. Usually, these rules tend to be more specific and help homeowners comply with the covenants.

"But, can HOA change rules? Similar to bylaws and CC&Rs, the HOA does have the power to change its rules and regulations. The process, though, is a little different.

It starts out the same, with a proposal of the rule change and a meeting to discuss the proposal. The board must provide notice of the proposed change to all homeowners within a specific time period. In California, it is 28 days’ worth. Boards also obtain input from homeowners. But, there is no vote from the members."

https://www.hoamanagement.com/how-t...l from,CC&Rs, then the rule will come to pass.

 

[psneeld]

In Florida.....

https://www.floridacondoattorneys.com/condo-hoa-boards-change-restrictions-owners-vote/

"I have seen many cases where boards have enforced rules that are outside the scope of their rule making authority. In many instances this practice has gone on for years without any challenge from the owners. People have been forced to get rid of pets, kids have been banned from playing and these Associations have been allowed to be run like dictatorships. All too often we are told of various Rules that we must comply with at our Florida Community Associations. Just because our Board Members voted and enacted these Rules does not mean that we should blindly follow them? Part of the problem is that many Board Members serving Condo Associations and Homeowner Associations are unaware of what proposals need to be voted on by the Owners and what matters the Board can enact on it’s own. The first place to look is the Association’s Governing Documents. These typically include the Declaration, By-Laws, Articles of Incorporation and Rules and Regulations. The Declaration of the Association is like the Constitution for that particular development and takes precedence over the By-Laws, Articles of Incorporation and Rules and Regulations."

 

[jleonard]

If it were me I would fight it.
At a minimum you should be grandfathered.

 

[Comodave]

Get a new board of directors…

 

[JohnP]

All good points --Thanks for the input. Several of the board members I know are going to bring this to the attention of the slip association President. I will let you know if anything happens--will probably take a while. I don't think it will be changed. If this had been the policy 10years ago I would not have purchased. It was good while it lasted. Me and the Admiral are considering a plan B. or C or D Haha

 

[mvweebles]

A registered letter from an attorney noting your diminished use and an offer to reach an amicable conclusion would likely go a long way towards a "grandfather" conclusion. At the very least, would cause your BoD and/or property manager to alert the insurance company.

Peter

 

[FWT]

Condo associations are tough. Many will say "yeah, but mine is a good one" and that's no doubt true. But many are not good.

The biggest issue arises on dues and budget. Some just will not vote for a dues level to adequately maintain the place. Especially when there is a big item that disproportionately affects one or two units. There was a major case on the Baltimore harbor years ago. A high rise condo building had a serious roof leak that trashed the top floor penthouse. The association would not assess dues to have it fixed.

A condo makes a lot of theoretical sense in retirement. But who needs the grief. The odds of getting the straight scoop on the place before buying isn't very high.

There is only one marina condo I'm familiar with. It looks perpetually seedy. Which is a shame, because owning a slip can make sense.

 

[mvweebles]

In Florida at least, HOA rules and financial accounting is fairly closely regulated. There are defined reserve accounts that must be maintained (such as roofing, painting, and anything that has a potential repair liability of $10,000 or more). Note, while there is a requirement to have a reserve account, there is no requirement that it be adequately funded.

10-years ago at the bottom of the market, I purchased a condo with a deeded slip in St Pete Beach, on the ICW. I spent some time on the board which was incredibly frustrating due to well-meaning but clueless board members who have zero experience managing a multi-million dollar property, the cumulative value of the 26-unit 1950s era building that went condo in 1983.

There are only three ways to fund maintenance. Adequate reserves via monthly dues. Occasional assessments. Or deferred maintenance and let the building go into decline with resulting reduction in resale value. There is no free lunch but #3 is usually the choice to keep monthly HOA fees low. In my opinion, from a TCO perspective, I suspect it's the most expensive, especially since repairs are often makeshift and do not last.

There is a small dock that is community property but each of the seven slips are individually owned. I now own two (25-foot) slips side-by-side and am converting them into one single slip to fit my Willard 36. Requires a lot of red tape. I managed to talk the HOA into letting me do it which was a chore. They have since threatened to recind permission which is a fools errand on their part unless they are willing to write a massive check (at least according to our professional property management company).

I will tell you it was difficult to find an attorney to help me - seems in that narrow section of the law, the bulk of legal work is assisting BoD make decisions, meaning the few lawyers there are so not want to run afoul of the HOA. But it is possible and a sternly worded letter is not that expensive

Good luck

Peter

 

[JohnP]

Our Marina is very well maintained. Nicely landscaped, parking lot freshly repaved all looks nice. It is great to own a slip a home for the boat without worries. It is pretty economical also with dues at 100 per month- Taxes about 500 year. The budget is in the black--one of the biggest expenses is insurance. Be sorry to leave but I don't think the pet thing makes sense--Nobody lives on their boat so the pets will not live there. But we need access to our boats and if that includes bringing a dog I don't see it as a problem.

 

[JohnP]

Dad, What do you mean I can't go boating anymore?

 

[HTurner]

Our Marina is very well maintained. Nicely landscaped, parking lot freshly repaved all looks nice. It is great to own a slip a home for the boat without worries. It is pretty economical also with dues at 100 per month- Taxes about 500 year. The budget is in the black--one of the biggest expenses is insurance. Be sorry to leave but I don't think the pet thing makes sense--Nobody lives on their boat so the pets will not live there. But we need access to our boats and if that includes bringing a dog I don't see it as a problem.

What is the punishment for bringing a pet as you do? Has this punishment been published?

 

[magna 6882]

It seems to me a pet restriction would have an economic impact since so many boaters have pets. Even if you were inclined to sell it may be in your economic interest to get this cleared up.

 

[JohnP]

What is the punishment for bringing a pet as you do? Has this punishment been published?

No published punishment--probably no way to enforce.

 

[Comodave]

Maybe survey the owners and see if they agree to this new rule. It could be that a couple of members of the board pushed it for their own personal agenda and the owners may not agree.

 

[JohnP]

It seems to me a pet restriction would have an economic impact since so many boaters have pets. Even if you were inclined to sell it may be in your economic interest to get this cleared up.

You are correct--this would be negative and put off some buyers!

 

[psneeld]

It seems to me a pet restriction would have an economic impact since so many boaters have pets. Even if you were inclined to sell it may be in your economic interest to get this cleared up.

But if tied to the actual condo buildings/public areas...there are lots of people fed up with pet owners who do not take proper care of their dogs on many levels.

So it's easy to see the typical American philosophy of punish all for the sins of a few.

 

[mvweebles]

JohnP - sounds like you don't own the slip, rather you rent it from the HOA. In my case, both slips are listed as property on the deed to my condo, the preferred arrangement. Second form of ownership is use-rights where the owners rights are listed in the HOA - not a bad form of ownership but not as firm as deeded ownership. But if you have neither form of ownership, you are likely a renter with few rights.

It's not uncommon for renters to pay property tax on rented slips. For me, since it is part of my condo, it's just included. I have not seen a meaningful increase in taxes but perhaps it will catch up with me someday.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[JohnP]

Maybe survey the owners and see if they agree to this new rule. It could be that a couple of members of the board pushed it for their own personal agenda and the owners may not agree.

I think I will go from slip to slip and see who is for or against pets. We the slip owners may be being forced by the homeowners who I can understand not wanting to live with pets in close apartments.

 

[JohnP]

JohnP - sounds like you don't own the slip, rather you rent it from the HOA. In my case, both slips are listed as property on the deed to my condo, the preferred arrangement. Second form of ownership is use-rights where the owners rights are listed in the HOA - not a bad form of ownership but not as firm as deeded ownership. But if you have neither form of ownership, you are likely a renter with few rights.

It's not uncommon for renters to pay property tax on rented slips. For me, since it is part of my condo, it's just included. I have not seen a meaningful increase in taxes but perhaps it will catch up with me someday.

Good luck.

Peter

I own the slip, deeded property pay taxes to the Township of Toms River. I do not own a condo apartment on site. Live in a Single Family Home in another Town.