Paint or gelcoat

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Beau Sejour

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
7
Location
Montreal
Vessel Name
Beau Sejour
Vessel Make
Bayliner 4550 1988
Hi,
I own a Bayliner 4550 1988 and my gelcoat is pretty chalky.
I’m hesitant between regelcoat or paintIng it with kind of Alwgrip.
I’m looking to do the entire boat above water and stay in white.
Any advise?
 
I can't speak to gelcoat, but I repainted with Alexseal, a polyurethane paint similar to Awlgrip, and got a good result with it. Bear in mind that surface preparation is more important than the brand of paint you might use and that's where the bulk of the labor hours, and cost, will be.
 
I asked the same question to the forum several months ago. Steve D'Antonio was kind enough to chime in along the way. In the end, I firmly decided on paint vs gelcoat. My understanding is that gelcoat, being porous, is more problematic. It is intended for use within a mold with fiberglass against it. Painting it on is not as effective.

But here's the thread - you may find some interesting tidbits.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/paint-vs-gelcoat-48035.html

EDIT: Post #34 in the attached thread is from Larry M, a KK42 owner who has consistently posted what I consider knowledgeable and helpful information. He had painted some of his boat, gelcoated other parts:

Fast forward 7 years. I wish we had painted the entire boat. The gelcoat was more expensive to do since it is more labor intensive. It’s harder to keep up and imho harder to repair. We also have a few areas where the application was thin or the crew removed to much while finishing. As far as the standing water, yes that can be an issue but then again we haven’t had the 75-100” of rain we saw while we were in Central America. The gelcoat still looks good but it's hard to beat modern paints.

Best success in whatever decision you make!

Peter
 
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Are you going to DIY it or hire it done? Alexseal has some great reviews. Boat Works Today has some good videos on it.
 
Thank you all for your quick replies and sorry for the typo. I’m a French speaker..
It seems to be a tuff decision without any black and white zone.
I’m planning to keep the boat for more than 10Y and at +- the same price I’m still jongeling.
I saw previously all the videos from Boat Works and other from painters.
I see more tendency to go to paint .
I will use my local fibreglass/ gelcoat technician who already did few well done job on my boat.
He strongly suggests paint for the glossy finish and lesswork after to maintain.
But after 10Y????
This where I’m blocking...
 
Cross link urethanes like Awlgrip or Imron etc are generally good for ten years max. Alexseal is a less toxic ( non isocyanate ) plastic coating but it’s longevity has yet to be confirmed. Either way dings scratches and abrasion accidents are impossible and or difficult to patch. Imron being the only of these coating systems that can be compounded and blended though results are iffy. In fact most customers are never happy with patches, blending etc. A good Awlgrip job will include roughly 6-8 mils of primer and 6-8 mile of topcoat in the best jobs and more primer and fairing with rougher topsides. Most painters short cut the primer/undercoat.

A decent gel coat Job will be between 16-25 mills or more and can be compounded buffed and waxed for thirty-five to forty years quite easily. Just go out and look at well maintained production FG boats built in the 80’s . Gel coat is a no brainer if you can find a good gel man to spray it, compound it and wax it.
 
If it helps, a French couple aboard an Amel sailboat lived in same marina as I did. Nice couple - both teachers at the French School in San Francisco.

They painted their Amel sailboat over the course of a summer using one part Brightsides paint. I bumped into them last summer 15 years after they had painted the boat. It still looked great. And that's a DIY job with one part paint (granted, they were meticulous about prep).

Gelcoat oxidizes pretty rapidly, probably faster than paint. For me, price to paint vs gelcoat would have been the same. I chose paint.

Peter
 
Remember the OP is in Montreal so his boat will likely be inside half the year. So getting a 2 part paint to last 10 years is not that hard. Also at the latitude the sun isn’t as fierce as say Florida.
 
Cross link urethanes like Awlgrip or Imron etc are generally good for ten years max. Alexseal is a less toxic ( non isocyanate ) plastic coating but it’s longevity has yet to be confirmed. Either way dings scratches and abrasion accidents are impossible and or difficult to patch. Imron being the only of these coating systems that can be compounded and blended though results are iffy. In fact most customers are never happy with patches, blending etc. A good Awlgrip job will include roughly 6-8 mils of primer and 6-8 mile of topcoat in the best jobs and more primer and fairing with rougher topsides. Most painters short cut the primer/undercoat.

A decent gel coat Job will be between 16-25 mills or more and can be compounded buffed and waxed for thirty-five to forty years quite easily. Just go out and look at well maintained production FG boats built in the 80’s . Gel coat is a no brainer if you can find a good gel man to spray it, compound it and wax it.
"10 years max" on LPU has not been my experience. Hatteras boats are painted right out of the factory. They look better for longer than gelcoat boats of similar quality and vintage. I've owned my 1970 California built boat since 1998. Even in San Francisco's mild climate the gelcoat was shot beyond buff and wax.

I simply do not agree with this post. All I can say is that when time came to put money down - and gelcoat was same price as paint, I went with paint based strongly on recommendation of Steve D'Antonio who ran the yard at Zimmerman Marine for years before hanging out his own shingle. He is one of the most trusted and respected experts in the industry. He did not hesitate in his strong recommendation for LPU.

Peter
 
Gel coat is thicker so you can buff it and wax it, buff it and wax it, buff it and wax it - you get the idea. Every 6 months or so. Awlgrip for other good 2 part paints will look good for 10 years up north with no care at all. Then you can buff it and wax it about twice, then repaint. Over a 20 year period, it isn't clear which is less work, if you want it to look nice. Some work every 6 months or a lot of work every 10 years.
 
We have just about finished re painting our topsides. Settled on International two pack for the cabin and International single pack for the bulwark.

As we decided to do it ourselves we did not expect a top grade professional finish, and so it turned out. Though it does look pretty good, as long as you don't look too hard. This saved us about $15-17K.

This follows our general philosophy we take in looking after the boat. We want it to look good without trying to make her look brand new inside and out. We found two pack tricky to master, one pack much easier.

If this lasts us ten years I will be pleased. Given this dam Covid epidemic, and what may still eventuate, if the boat needs repainting in ten years time and I am up for it, I would be very happy to break out the roller & brushes.
 
Remember the OP is in Montreal so his boat will likely be inside half the year. So getting a 2 part paint to last 10 years is not that hard. Also at the latitude the sun isn’t as fierce as say Florida.

I bought a boat that had been in Michigan since new, one owner. He kept in a slip all summer; stored it outside but covered in winter. It had been Awlgripped 20 years prior to my buying it. Still looked like it had been done yesterday; no particular maintenance on his part (normal rinsing).

I didn't own it super long, but the people I sold it to still own it. It has now been on a Chesapeake mooring nearly year around for 12 years (not as bad as Florida, but plenty of sun and nearly year around exposure, plus the lesser typical care of a moored boat - no dock hose, etc).

It has now been 33 years since it was Awlgripped. I believe the "new" owners have had it buffed (with Awlgrip this means you are to the buying-time stage as you don't normally buff it). Still looks pretty decent, IMO.

My shoulders are aching just thinking of buffing gelcoat over 33 years. (I've done it on other boats.)

--Original molded gelcoat? Sure, keep it going as long as you can (I would).

--Spot repairs? Gelcoat.

--A complete new job on an existing boat? 2-part paint all the way in my book (Awlgrip, etc)
 
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Frosty makes a good point about buffing and waxing gelcoat. Tendency is to think of it as trivial work. Done properly with correct tools is time consuming, detail-oriented work. Having it done professionally is expensive. A friend just had his 52 foot power cat buffed/waxed at a cost of $3500. He has it done annually. Granted this is in the Florida sun, but to say buffing and waxing is a small amount of annual work to offset a large paint project every couple decades minimizes the cost and expense involved in gelcoat maintenance.

I'll be interested to see where the OP lands. I had same choice at same price for either. I initially thought gelcoat. Decided on paint.

Peter
 
If the boat will be cruised paint is the way to go , as it can more easily be refreshed.

Some days you tie up to a big commercial, some days the big boat ties up to you.

If the paint is only distressed sand prime and paint.

The easy cruisers are the many French aluminum boats , that simply buff out surface rash.
 
I'd make a strong argument for paint. The poly urethanes are much better and less maintenance than the gel coat.


Now, paint is much harder to apply, and much less forgiving if you make a mistake. Also, hard to patch dings.


Question: Are there good poly urethanes that can be brushed successfully? That make it a lot easier, unless you have a paint booth and a lot of tape and paper.



And yes, hiring it done is EXPENSIVE!



I've messed with brushed on poly urethanes at times with bathroom fixtures, with mixed results. Wouldn't do it on a boat unless there is a new proven method.


With my airplanes (painted several, and one I did totally myself) the urethane paints last at LEAST 20 years, even in the sun. And the airport/flying environment isn't a lot less harsh than marine. My current plane still looks new and can be clay polished to look even better. They paint is 23 years old, poly urethane.


Same with my Formula, 15 years old when I sold it and it looked showroom. And just look at other boats that are urethane painted.



The urethane paints just LAST, if you take reasonable care of them. And if they dull over the years, they can be brought back to life.
 
Now, paint is much harder to apply, and much less forgiving if you make a mistake. Also, hard to patch dings.


Question: Are there good poly urethanes that can be brushed successfully? That make it a lot easier, unless you have a paint booth and a lot of tape and paper.

The urethane paints just LAST, if you take reasonable care of them. And if they dull over the years, they can be brought back to life.

I would not say that gel coat is easier to apply than paint. Yes it may be easier to get it on the surface, but a lot of work has to be done after application, it doesn't lay down smooth and has to be worked extensively to get to a smooth surface. Paint is the opposite, a lot of prep work prior to application but application is almost the easiest part of the job and once applied, you are done.

I'm currently painting my boat (DIY) and started with Interlux Perfection. It applies with the roll and tip method very nicely, easy to do. At this moment due to Covid it's hard to get some colors and I've switched to Alexseal after painting only two test panels with it.

Alexseal has a new additive for their topcoat that enables application by roller only. So far I'm happy with the results, I'll be posting more about it in my refit thread once I have gotten a bit further into the process.

Not all of the Marine LPU paints can be 'refreshed'. Both Interlux Perfection and Awlgrip restrict any form of buffing/polishing, they don't even want you to wax it. This is due to the way their products layer color and UV protectants, with the UV protectants floating to the top and staying in a thin layer at the top of the coating. Buffing/Polishing removes the UV protection and will only look OK for a short period of time after.

The Alexseal Topcoat advertises that they have UV protection throughout the coating to enable repair and buffing/polishing, they also recommend regular waxing which Awlgrip specifically advises against.
 
Did you try wet sanding a test patch? I’ve been amazed how effectively this restores gel coat
 
Thank you all for you advises and comments.
I’m now a bit more convinced to go with the paint option.
I’m in contact with two shops to do the job during the cold winter of Montreal...
I will see and keep you posted.
Sincerely.
Serge
 
Wet sand can’t be an option because at many places I already see true the gelcoat
 
Gelcoat applied to a female mold also has a different finish than one sprayed on an exterior surface. It is less porous and stays shiny much longer. Once you have to sand it or compound it, you are in to the porosity below the surface. And if sprayed on the exterior, it will have orange peel and has to be block sanded and compounded, so you start with a gelcoat with all the disadvantage of 5 years of aging. Once you start compounding, you have to keep at it year after year.

There are Xlinked PU paints that can be compounded and repaired. PPG, I think Imron, perhaps some of the yacht finishes as well. Not Awlgrip. I'll be looking for one of those when I have to repaint my Awlgrip'd sailboat. The new Awlgrip "repairable" finish has instructions (can be found online) and it is a time consuming, meticulous, many step process. Others are easier. On the other hand the original Awlgrip surface seems to be tougher than any of the others.
 
For me, the benchmark boat was a 70 Hateras that a friend bought in 1989 or so. It had the usual Hatteras white colour, but looked quite tired. Within a year or so it was painted bright white, with Awlgrip. Before the repaint, it would pick up the yellow moustache quickly. He and I traded remedies, tried them all. After the paint job, no more yellow. This year I finally bit that particular bullet and painted my own boat. Saw his boat again recently and now, over 30 years on, his still looks like the paint job was done yesterday.
 
.
At $50 a gallon One thing to remember is ordinary oil paints have improved vastly over the years .

In the past oil paint has looked fine (if not damaged) at 7 to 10 years , like most dirt homes.

Oil paint may not shine like like some complex paints , but new surface coatings can work wonders .(Flitz?)
 
Thank you DDW,
I will discuss it with the shop.
How much would you think it could cost to do it?
Total cost or cost per feet?
I want to be prepare when the quote will come.
 
Hi,
I own a Bayliner 4550 1988 and my gelcoat is pretty chalky.
I’m hesitant between regelcoat or paintIng it with kind of Alwgrip.
I’m looking to do the entire boat above water and stay in white.
Any advise?

Have you looked into refreshing the gelcoat via buffing? It can be done if it is just the surface chalkiness that is at issue.
 
Hi,
I own a Bayliner 4550 1988 and my gelcoat is pretty chalky.
I’m hesitant between regelcoat or painting it with kind of Awlgrip.
I’m looking to do the entire boat above water and stay in white.
Any advise?

Beau,
I'd suggest your two options should really be: either buff/shine your gelcoat, or paint.
Before you go down the full paint or full gelcoat path, it is only a fraction of the cost to simply get a good detail shop to see how well they can refresh your gelcoat. Wetsanding is kind of the last resort but they might be able to refresh with compounding wax before they resort to wetsanding. Even with wetsanding, you really have nothing to lose by trying it first before you start spending the big bucks.
This is a very rough estimate; but you might spend say $1000 USD on the buff/wax/compound/wetsand.... versus perhaps $15,000 on a total paint job. Others on the forum can chime in on the estimates but i don't think you can get a boat painted for less than $10,000......
 
OP mentioned above that the gelcoat is already so thin you can see through it in places. So my guess is it has already been buffed as much as possible (or was very thin to begin with and wore through).
 
When we painted our boat 2 years ago, we did all the fiberglass repairs, PO hit the dock just about everywhere on the boat, and all the other prep work. I had a pro painter come in and spray the boat. Cost me $85 per hour for 12 hours work. I asked him what it would have cost if he had done all the work. He said over $25K. I spent about $1000 in prep materials, fiberglass, epoxy, sand paper, tape, masking, etc. around $2000 in paint. So in total I spent under $4K for a $25K+ paint job. If you are able to do the prep work and then have someone spray the boat you will save a bundle. My prep work was very involved due to the PO lack of docking skills and President putting way to thick gel coat on so it was cracking. In one area I completely sanded off all the gel coat and started over. If you boat is in good condition but just old faded gel coat then the prep work would be much easier.
 
OP mentioned above that the gelcoat is already so thin you can see through it in places. So my guess is it has already been buffed as much as possible (or was very thin to begin with and wore through).

Oops, thanks Frosty I missed that part of the thread.... in that case wetsanding is probably not a good option....
 
Alexseal is repairable, OP is talking white so that makes it a lot easier. What use to be common is to paint the house with Awlgrip which is not repairable and the hull with Awlcraft, which is an acrylic urethane and is easily repairable but not quite as durable as Awlgrip. The thought was that the hull gets beat up, banging into docks and such, more than the house, so make that repairable.
It's impossible to determine what the cost would be as everyone has different expectations. Ballpark, if you want to have a professional do a professional repaint of the whole boat, take it all apart and put it back together again, it's going to likely be around $1k/ft. But it is a 32 year old boat, chances are you're going to find unexpected things that will drive the cost up from there. And you might be adding yard costs. And those freakin' black anodized Bayliner window frames that are now all faded and are going to look lousy against the shiny new paint so you'll want to paint those also, which is a surprising amount of work.
I've re-gelcoated a couple of smaller boats. I can't even imagine how expensive it would be to do a boat this big, you're talking serious expensive. You'd have all the same prep that you'd have with paint. But instead of just spraying topcoat and it's all shiny you'd add massive hours of wetsanding, buffing and polishing to get it shiny. I doubt if 2X the price of a paint job would do it and you'd end up with an inferior finish to paint, it would not be as shiny or as durable. Gelcoat sprayed in the open just isn't the same as done in a mold, don't care what anyone else says.
 
Today I received my first quote
$15K only for the bottom with Awlgrip (Cracks repaired + +primer 2 coats+ clear coat)
They recommand 3M clear protection film on the fender section (same as for front car to protect against bugs).
They evaluated bottom and top at more than $40K -$50K,.....
I told them I will not pay that amount.
The boat value is +-100K in overall very good condition Including most important the mechanics.
They asked me for a detail video because they are far from the boat,
I will provide it next weekend for a quote revision.
I’m also waiting for an inside space availability close to the boat where my local fibreglass /gelcoat technicien is willing to do the paint job on an hour bases.
I trust this guy and he wants the job for the winter.
It is still a work in progress project...
I own this boat for 8Y and love it.
I want to keep it probably for another 15Y including a great loop trip in 3-5Y on my retirement.
In my mind I would be willing to invest +-25K-30K for the total job.
Feel free to comment
Thanks to all
 
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