AIS Upgrade

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firstbase

Guru
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
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United States
Vessel Name
Black Eyed Susan
Vessel Make
Grand Banks 42' Classic
I have a Si-Tex AIS receiver for Garmin MFD and VHF's. I want to upgrade to a both see and be seen. Is it better/cheaper to add on a transmitter or replace my current AIS with a new full transceiver? How much is involved in upgrading to a single unit? Probably a bad question and dependent on the particular boat but generically speaking. What cabling is required to add on the transmitting portion?

Thanks in advance...
 
Do they even sell a transmitter-only AIS? I don't see how that would even work.

Buy a standalone AIS transceiver. It will be able to send data to your MFD and VHF.

I love my Vesper, but whatever brand you choose, it's a pretty simple install.
 
You may be correct. I thought that I ran across one in my searching. What additional has to be added for a full transponder? I have power and antenna for the receiver, cabling to VHF's and NMEA 2000 for Garmin (I think?) I have a mix of old and new.
 
I finally broke down and bought an AIS transceiver. I have Raymarine electronics so bought a Raymarine unit. It has a built in antenna splitter to use the existing VHF antenna, but I opted for a separate antenna. Installation was simple. Power and ground wires, a cable to the Seatalk network, a GPS antenna, and the new VHF antenna. Then I went home and looked at our boat on Marine Traffic.
 
You may be correct. I thought that I ran across one in my searching. What additional has to be added for a full transponder? I have power and antenna for the receiver, cabling to VHF's and NMEA 2000 for Garmin (I think?) I have a mix of old and new.

firstbase,

Nothing else. You have what you need.

I think the only things that could possibly be different is 1) possibly just a bit more power requirement, so check the wire size (ampacity required) for the transponder you select and 2) the transponder might be more picky about antenna and connector quality.

I have a digital yacht AiT2000, and was surprised to find that it internally measures SWR of the antenna, and will error out if you have issues in your antenna system. It was irritating, but good for me, because it found and forced me to find and fix the issue I had in a connection. As far as power supply, mine only draws 2 amps, so the power supply requirement is small.

Otherwise, the NMEA2000 does not require different wiring. If you were to say you had NMEA 0183, I would tell you you would have to do some additional wiring because you would need to worry about both a listener and a talker...

In short, you may just have a swap, with the possible exception of checking antenna/connection quality...

I wish you well, in the short time I have had active AIS, I have noticed multiples times that other recreational and commercial vessels use that knowledge of my speed and course to make both our lives a little easier, especially the ones that move substantially faster and are more maneuverable than I.
 
Thanks guys. I appreciate your responses. going to take your comments and study some more. I have some other upgrades/additions I am doing (new VHF's, additional nav unit - laptop/tablet/MFD, not sure) at the same time. Would be nice for everything to play well together.
 
Thanks guys. I appreciate your responses. going to take your comments and study some more. I have some other upgrades/additions I am doing (new VHF's, additional nav unit - laptop/tablet/MFD, not sure) at the same time. Would be nice for everything to play well together.

(I plugged everything I have, NMEA 0183, 2000, and a laptop on an ethernet into a Rose Point NEMO and it all just talked....) Garmin nework via NMEA 2000, my ComNav autopilot via NMEA 0183, the VHF is also NMEA 0183, the AIS is NMEA 2000.... I can see my AIS targets on both of my chartplotting programs on the laptop and on my Garmins, I can run the autopilot from the laptop route course or the Garmin route course (whichever I have a course activated on). I can get the depth from the Garmin network but not the sounder data onto the laptop.. I was very impressed with how easy it was to multiplex all these diverse systems with the NEMO.

About the only thing I haven't done is set up a wifi system on board for my nav computer instead of the ethernet. Theoretically I could navigate via my autopilot from a course on my tablet in opencpn. Instead I stick with coastal explorer on the laptop.
 
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(I plugged everything I have, NMEA 0183, 2000, and a laptop on an ethernet into a Rose Point NEMO and it all just talked....) Garmin nework via NMEA 2000, my ComNav autopilot via NMEA 0183, the VHF is also NMEA 0183, the AIS is NMEA 2000.... I can see my AIS targets on both of my chartplotting programs on the laptop and on my Garmins, I can run the autopilot from the laptop route course or the Garmin route course (whichever I have a course activated on). I can get the depth from the Garmin network but not the sounder data onto the laptop.. I was very impressed with how easy it was to multiplex all these diverse systems with the NEMO.

About the only thing I haven't done is set up a wifi system on board for my nav computer instead of the ethernet. Theoretically I could navigate via my autopilot from a course on my tablet in opencpn. Instead I stick with coastal explorer on the laptop.

That's what I wish would happen. I don't want Star Wars or anything but a reasonable upgrade would be nice. Not going to attempt anything myself, will have someone work on it. Just finishing an electrical audit and finally understand my system which is a little convoluted. Now want to do the same with the electronics and not comfortable going on my own. I'm sure its pretty simple as these things go but not a sandbox I want to play in without supervision. :)
 
One point about the Vesper AIS units; they re-transmit a lot of NMEA data (their own, as well as other data they receive either from NMEA 0183 or 2000) over a built-in WiFi router. This makes using just about any phone, tablet or laptop easy.

That said, if I were re-rigging a lot of electronics, I'd look at their new Cortex offering. I haven't really had a chance to dig into it, and it's not officially for sale yet, but the idea is intriguing.
 
One point about the Vesper AIS units; they re-transmit a lot of NMEA data (their own, as well as other data they receive either from NMEA 0183 or 2000) over a built-in WiFi router. This makes using just about any phone, tablet or laptop easy.

That said, if I were re-rigging a lot of electronics, I'd look at their new Cortex offering. I haven't really had a chance to dig into it, and it's not officially for sale yet, but the idea is intriguing.

Yes, I saw the new Cortex w/ VHF. I'm not so hot on brand new release of Version 1 products but it looks promising. Not cheap but promising!
 
Also check out Digital Yacht AIS units.
 
That said, if I were re-rigging a lot of electronics, I'd look at their new Cortex offering. I haven't really had a chance to dig into it, and it's not officially for sale yet, but the idea is intriguing.


I wouldn't get too excited about Cortex (combined VHF and AIS T&R) just yet. Standard Horizon announced their combined device over two years ago and still doesn't have FCC/USCG approval to sell in the US. At this point I just assume it's never going to happen, for whatever reason.


Hopefully Vesper has some magic or took a different approach that will avoid whatever buzz saw Standard Horizon ran into.
 
Does your current installation use a dedicated AIS antenna, or is it shared with the VHF? If shared, you will have some extra work to switch to a full AIS device, either installing a dedicated antenna (preferred) or an active switcher (sometimes easier where adding an antenna is untenable).
 
I have a dedicated AIS antenna. I assume it will be fine for a transponder?
 
Yes, sounds like it should be an easy swap out of the AIS unit.

Cool. I have a budget amount for it so now that I hear it should be a simpler job I will expect an actual cost that is only double my estimate not triple. :)

I have seen Digital Yacht, NEMO, etc. multiplexers. Are they fairly equal in quality just chose the options you need and whatever fits or is there a standard issue unit that fits most? Need to study, same with the AIS units. Haven't a clue whats good and bad.
 
I have a Si-Tex AIS receiver for Garmin MFD and VHF's. I want to upgrade to a both see and be seen. Is it better/cheaper to add on a transmitter or replace my current AIS with a new full transceiver? How much is involved in upgrading to a single unit? Probably a bad question and dependent on the particular boat but generically speaking. What cabling is required to add on the transmitting portion?

I have a dedicated AIS antenna. I assume it will be fine for a transponder?


Does Garmin offer an AIS transceiver? Does it talk over NMEA2000? If so, and given it seems you already have power, ground, and antenna... could be as simple as out with the old, in with the new. Then some set-up options in your plotter.

Maybe.

Possibly not much more difficult if it's NMEA0183, just maybe connecting some wiring...

-Chris
 
Hal,

You mentioned you have Garmin MFD? Is so I would recommend staying in the Garmin family and install a Garmin transceiver (Transmit and receive) AIS. Also easier to update if all in the same family.
 
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I wouldn't get too excited about Cortex (combined VHF and AIS T&R) just yet. Standard Horizon announced their combined device over two years ago and still doesn't have FCC/USCG approval to sell in the US. At this point I just assume it's never going to happen, for whatever reason.


Hopefully Vesper has some magic or took a different approach that will avoid whatever buzz saw Standard Horizon ran into.

I'm worried about delivery times with the Cortex as well, both from the FCC perspective, but also just in terms of their delivery schedules. I'm hoping to get a review unit, hopefully earlier, but it sounds like that is not happening for a few months.

Besides that, given that the Cortex is going to have a lot of software stuff inside of it, I would not likely want to deal with the first 6 months or longer of usage as I expect there will be bugs to work through that could be challenging.
 
You mentioned you have Garmin MFD? Is so I would recommend staying in the Garmin family and install a Garmin transceiver (Transmit and receive) AIS. Also easier to update if all in the same family.

I hear that a lot, but it really hasn't been my experience. At my upper helm, I think I have at least one component from every manufacturer I've ever heard of (and one I hadn't.) They all talk to each other just fine.

In fact, the only problem is with the Garmin MFD itself. It doesn't talk nice (doesn't follow standards) sending to a non-Garmin autopilot in certain unusual situations.

Because Garmin can't follow standards seems like a very poor reason to buy more of their stuff. I'd tend to go the other way, and avoid them. Although admittedly, sometimes their stuff is the best value for a particular task, and I have to weigh that against their flaws.
 
AIS is pretty well generic over nema 2000 and 183...
Well designed units are interchangeable on almost any system.
As mentioned in previous post Vesper's WiFi interface will translate and provide all the data (gps, wind, depth, cog, sog, heading) on nema 2000 and probably 183 networks.
There free IOS and Android apps put information on your phone or tablet.
Using OpenCPN via WiFi on laptop gives you excellent 3rd MFD.
Anchor alarm with very low power consumption makes for good sleep.
Its just an excellent product.
 
Yes, Garmin does have a transceiver. $800 or so. Have no idea of the quality or bells and whistles though.
 
I hear that a lot, but it really hasn't been my experience. At my upper helm, I think I have at least one component from every manufacturer I've ever heard of (and one I hadn't.) They all talk to each other just fine.

In fact, the only problem is with the Garmin MFD itself. It doesn't talk nice (doesn't follow standards) sending to a non-Garmin autopilot in certain unusual situations.

Because Garmin can't follow standards seems like a very poor reason to buy more of their stuff. I'd tend to go the other way, and avoid them. Although admittedly, sometimes their stuff is the best value for a particular task, and I have to weigh that against their flaws.

I have Raymarine and have had awesome results. Having it in the same "family" makes installation, updates and trouble shooting a bit easier..
 
I used to be a field engineer for a computer company. When a customer added foreign equipment to one of our systems and had a problem the standard first answer was it was the foreign equipment causing the problem and we were usually correct. So when I add equipment to my electronics suite, I stick to the brand of equipment I have, in my case Raymarine. I would see if Garmin has something and bite the bullet and spend the money. It will make it Garmins problem if you have any issues in the future. I think you may need to modify your radio station license to add the AIS.
 
I used to be a field engineer for a computer company. When a customer added foreign equipment to one of our systems and had a problem the standard first answer was it was the foreign equipment causing the problem and we were usually correct. So when I add equipment to my electronics suite, I stick to the brand of equipment I have, in my case Raymarine. I would see if Garmin has something and bite the bullet and spend the money. It will make it Garmins problem if you have any issues in the future. I think you may need to modify your radio station license to add the AIS.

:iagree:I would agree to this statement, if you can commit to it.

While some boats and customers are able to do this, many are not, for various reasons.

In the case of the installation of equipment on my boat, it came to me with a mostly Garmin electronics suite and a non-garmin (ComNav) autopilot which is arguably better equipment that what Garmin produces. Additionally Garmin (nor any other plotter manufacturer) simply does not produce a product that I can easily use both at home and on the boat to plan/review my routes and trips in a PC platform that takes advantage of the NOAA's free ENC charting; problematically it does not allow any importation/exportation with other platforms. While I still depend and update my Garmin chartplotters as a secondary nav source and for my radar and sounder, I would double check with other actually users what AIS data will come out of them to other systems, if you need to do that.

The other benefit of the system I have is I have redundant GPS sources. If my DC power goes down I'm dead, but if I had a failure of my Garmin system I still have my laptop and the independent GPS of the AIS.

An AIS transceiver is not a magical piece of equipment that one manufacturer has an edge over another. It either sends and receives at an acceptable level and sends and receives over the specified NMEA specification the appropriate data sentences. I DO know from my experience that Garmin does RECEIVE outside AIS data just fine - one issue I did have is that my two chartplotters are connected with a Garmin network cable, and only my chartplotter (4200 series - i know, but olds kewl) connected to my NMEA 2000 network directly immediately showed the AIS - the Garmin network did not pick up that data and send it to the other plotter. This required me to extend my NMEA network up to the flybridge to connect to the second plotter for that data connection. I'm sure I wouldn't have had that problem if I had bought a Garmin AIS. The cost of my network extension did not justify the additional cost of a Garmin product.

NOTE: I looked back at my AIS and the current Garmin offering, and the current Digital Yacht offerings. Most of the older Class B (recreational) transceivers are 2 watt transmitters. Some of the newer ones (Digital Yacht AIT2500 and Garmin 800 AIS in particular) are 5 watts. This won't help your receiving - I would guess you will receive exactly what you have before, but could increase your straight-line visibility a bit. For us, we boat in areas where it is rare we will ever be somewhere our AIS signal will outrun VHF straight line....

When considering a Garmin AIS transceiver it would be important to see what experiences others have getting that data out of the Garmin network...It may be simple, I'm just dubious simply because of how near-impossible I've found it to try to update routes from my PC to my GARMIN chart plotters.

If I were planning a large funded electronics refit, I would certainly consider a suite from one manufacturer; assuming I could find one with the combination of features that fit my needs and desires. Not sure there is, but I'd try. I'm a technology skeptic, I think a lot of it self serving for profit. For example, I'm quickly coming to terms with the fact that Windows Office may be something of the past in my life; going from a purchased product to an annual subscription in the cloud is not my idea of a good consumer purchase - its the same with some of the mapping products out there. I already pay NOAA a lot of dang money to give me updated charts; i actually get chart updates from them WAY more often than I do for the Navionics charts I update annually at a cost for our cuddy runabout.

RE the radio station license; I don't think there is a modification necessary - its the same ship and same MMSI. I don't yet have a SSL for NWD but that is my understanding from the research I have done. Has anyone had actual experience with this?
 
It will make it Garmins problem if you have any issues in the future.

Until about 18 months later, when they declare it "legacy" and no longer supported.

If it's an connectivity issue, Garmin will point the finger at the installer, anyway.

Those times I've needed manufacturer's support, I rarely get it.

Those times I've gotten good support, I had a specific question and there was no finger-pointing.

Sure, if you wire everything up wrong, and expect the manufacturer to fix it for you over the phone, you're going to be disappointed.

If you connect everything properly, in my experience, it just works. Things that don't work are generally software-related issues specific to the device, and can be addressed regardless of what brand device it's connected to.
 
I have had excellent support from Raymarine. In fact they replaced a depth sounder module I was having with an 8 year old module. They had had some problems with that model so they sent me a newer one free. They have spent several hours on the phone with me over a couple of months when I was working on some legacy equipment.
 
So when I add equipment to my electronics suite, I stick to the brand of equipment I have, in my case Raymarine.
Not being an electronics nerd, I adhere to the above advice & so far have had good luck in filling out my glass helm.

Raymarine is my preference but I'm sure there are others just as good or better. I have 2 Raymarine MFDs, and an AIS transceiver. The VHFs, however are standard Horizon with AIS & iCom without AIS but it includes a hailer, fog horn program, etc. The fuel management & SOC systems are Maretron while the Windlass & chain counter are Maxwell.

Right now I have only 2 cameras, ER & cockpit but 2 more are on order. (Salon & flybridge ladder.) Why include a complete rundown of my equipment? All were installed by industry techs and everything (except the chain counter)can be viewed on the Raymarine plotters. BTW, everything works great! Lesson? Stick with one manufacturer if possible.

Edit: It just dawned on me that even the windlass chain counter can be viewed on the MFDs if it was added to the Maretron bus. :dance:
 
Why include a complete rundown of my equipment? All were installed by industry techs and everything (except the chain counter)can be viewed on the Raymarine plotters. BTW, everything works great! Lesson? Stick with one manufacturer if possible.

I have components from 11 different electronics manufacturers on my boat. Most of them I installed myself. The devices already aboard when I bought it I largely re-installed, or re-connected.

All can be viewed on various displays, mostly integrated along two main trains feeding two different MFDs. Not counting a lot of the data accessible over WiFi via smart phone, laptop or tablet.

Everything works great!

Lesson: No need to stick with one manufacturer.

My point: There's more than one approach out there. Sure, if money were no object, I'd give an installer a blank check and say "I want the works."

But I suspect I'd still develop the specs myself, and specify the best fit for my needs for each component, regardless of manufacturer.
 
Yes, everything works great, until it doesn’t. And when it doesn’t then you have to figure out where the problem lies. And that is when having one vendor pays off. Now yours may work great forever, but not everyone has that experience.
 

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