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-   -   New to me 50, Steel full displacement, engine questions (https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/new-me-50-steel-full-displacement-engine-questions-30464.html)

Nomad Willy 04-08-2017 09:12 PM

Boat's too big and complicated.

FF 04-09-2017 05:39 AM

"Boat's too big and complicated."

Not really he just never got a PDL (pass down log)

so has to figure all the idotsincracys from scratch.

bluebyu 04-09-2017 06:02 AM

Really doubt the hydraulics are in series. Just may look like it.
Take a photo of the tubing/hoses at the bow windlass, there will be a "t" somewhere. The "t" could even be far away, trace the tubing.

Some where in your system you have a pressure regulator, find it and get a gauge on it.

Hydraulics can be dangerous if not properly maintained and adjusted. Look up pin hole leaks.
If properly maintained, they provide great service.

Much like electric, if you don't understand it, get a pro.

Obie 04-09-2017 09:28 AM

It truly is in series. And when you are not trying to ingage any motor in the series, there is no presher in the system. When you ingage the clutch pump it dose not draw the engine down at all.
I will get pics when I get back to the boat.
Obie

Britannia 04-09-2017 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obie (Post 542164)
It truly is in series. And when you are not trying to ingage any motor in the series, there is no presher in the system. When you ingage the clutch pump it dose not draw the engine down at all.
I will get pics when I get back to the boat.
Obie

I am just starting to understand how my hydraulics work (bowthruster and fin stabilizers.) My system uses a variable volume pump with a load sense. This is a small return line from the load side of the system that the pump uses to increase volume to maintain pressure when load is applied. Like yours, my pump creates no engine load when no systems are engaged.

I still have much to learn and it's hard to find hydraulics mechanics these days - at least where I am.

Richard

FF 04-10-2017 04:37 AM

"it's hard to find hydraulics mechanics these days - at least where I am."

Stop in a shop that is a hyd specialist. They repair trash trucks , earth movers and farm gear.

They will know of a mechanic that would love to earn cash some weekend figuring and then explaining your system.

mike50 04-10-2017 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obie (Post 542020)
Ok I have hit the wall on one of my systems and I need help.
Hydraulics! So I have a hydraulic system that is daisy chained. The oil exits the pump go first to my crane. The crane workers grate, then it goes to my front windlass. Then I try to bring the windles forward or back it makes the pump belt slip. Then the oil goes to the stern windlass. The same thing happens when I try to operate that windlass. From there it then returns to the tank. Has anyone heard of a system like this? Were they are not in peralel, but in series.
Obie

FWIW, If you haven't already checked it, see if there is a mechanical dog or brake locking the windlass shafts or hubs.

Obie 04-10-2017 08:40 AM

That's what I thought, a lock. But if you reach inside the windlass you can by hand turn the motor, and that then turns the Gypsy.
It's kinda cool though the gear the motor turns JABSCO
Mag Drive Pump, 11 GPMI'll only be turned by the motor. If you try to turn the Gypsy to turn the motor it will not turn. It has an automatic break in the gearbox. Not sure how that works , but it works well.
Obie

Northern Spy 04-10-2017 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF (Post 542425)
"it's hard to find hydraulics mechanics these days - at least where I am."

Stop in a shop that is a hyd specialist. They repair trash trucks , earth movers and farm gear.

They will know of a mechanic that would love to earn cash some weekend figuring and then explaining your system.

Good idea. Pay him to draw a schematic with ISO symbols for troubleshooting later.

Britannia 04-10-2017 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF (Post 542425)
"it's hard to find hydraulics mechanics these days - at least where I am."

Stop in a shop that is a hyd specialist. They repair trash trucks , earth movers and farm gear.

They will know of a mechanic that would love to earn cash some weekend figuring and then explaining your system.

Thanks for the suggestion. I know a guy who rents out heavy equipment - I'll bet he has a mechanic for the hydraulics.

bayview 04-10-2017 09:31 AM

Any goodyear hose shop will know mechanics.

Do check belt tension and make sure the cranes are not frozen.

Xsbank 04-10-2017 01:49 PM

My hydraulics have a selector - one way for the crane, another for the windlassand a third circuit to the rear that is looped. I can only use one at a time. Look for a selector.

fijigone 04-10-2017 03:35 PM

boat hydralics
 
The experts on this is Spencer Fluid Power with offices in Portland and Seattle. Many years ago they put together a complete hydraulic system for my boat.

Obie 04-10-2017 10:59 PM

Yes I know spencer, they are very close to me.
And my hydraulics have a selector also. 1 for the bowthrusrer, then one for windlasses and crane.
I think it has to be a problem with the valve body? I don't see we're it could be anything else
Obie

mike50 04-11-2017 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obie (Post 542783)
Yes I know spencer, they are very close to me.
And my hydraulics have a selector also. 1 for the bowthrusrer, then one for windlasses and crane.
I think it has to be a problem with the valve body? I don't see we're it could be anything else
Obie

FWIW...some thoughts, if not already checked; once in the windlass mode is it possible you have 2nd /another hyd selector for the fwd and aft windlasses mode?
When moving the selector valve into the windlass position; does the pump immediately pull down or do you have to move the in/out selector at a windlass for it to pull down/slip the pump belt?

Obie 04-11-2017 11:31 PM

You have to move the leaver at the windles. That is when you here the pump pull down. At first you here oil squirting through the valve as you begin to restrict it. The way the se stem is desighed I believe all valve at there neutral state allow oil to fee flow to the next valve bodie, and so on till it returned to the pump. Then you pull a valve you then send it through one side ore the other in the hydraulic motor. It then exits the motor and continues on through the loop.

mike50 04-12-2017 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obie (Post 543125)
You have to move the leaver at the windles. That is when you here the pump pull down. At first you here oil squirting through the valve as you begin to restrict it. The way the se stem is desighed I believe all valve at there neutral state allow oil to fee flow to the next valve bodie, and so on till it returned to the pump. Then you pull a valve you then send it through one side ore the other in the hydraulic motor. It then exits the motor and continues on through the loop.

It appears given all of your descriptions that the problem is either flow restricted by stuck hyd motors (unlikely given earlier comments), or a restriction or closed valve in the downstream windlass return line. Any chance you have a stuck check valve some point down stream of the windlass return lines? As a quick test you could temporarily/remove the return line (into a 1-2 gal can) at one of the windlasses and see if you get any motor rotation.

Portage_Bay 04-12-2017 01:40 AM

Quote:

As a quick test you could temporarily/remove the return line (into a 1-2 gal can) at one of the windlasses and see if you get any motor rotation.
That may not be a good idea. Older heavy duty work boats can have hyd pumps with flow rates on the order of 10 to 25 gal / min.

mike50 04-12-2017 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portage_Bay (Post 543139)
That may not be a good idea. Older heavy duty work boats can have hyd pumps with flow rates on the order of 10 to 25 gal / min.

Could not agree more!
My prior suggestion assumes that pressure and flow rates are understood and that "reasonable safety precautions" are followed. The idea is to run a line into a large enough container to allow for a "momentary" engagement of the selector valve to see if there is any motor movement. Another alternative (expensive/difficult??) if possible/accessible is to run a temporary by-pass line back to the return point at the hyd tank.

Obie 04-12-2017 09:07 AM

I think I will pull one of the controle valves that I believe is the problem and take it into spencer. Maybe they can test it. I think there have to be something stuck. But that should tell a lot.
Obie
Thank all of you for trying I will keep you posted, I was hoping some one would have had the same thing and been able to say (it's this). Maybe that some one will be me once I get it solved.


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