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-   -   New to me 50, Steel full displacement, engine questions (https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/new-me-50-steel-full-displacement-engine-questions-30464.html)

Obie 02-24-2017 01:25 PM

That is awesome info Richard, thank you. I do not mind cruising at 7 to 8 kts, as long as my autopilot is working.

Jeffrey S 02-24-2017 04:55 PM

It's a slick boat - congratulations - and welcome to the steel boat world.

Have you thought about paint, rust prevention, and general hull maintenance? I'm curious what paints for steel boats are used in the PNW area.

SaltyDawg86 02-24-2017 05:23 PM

Boy, I'm in love. Beautiful!

Obie 02-25-2017 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey S (Post 527069)
It's a slick boat - congratulations - and welcome to the steel boat world.

Have you thought about paint, rust prevention, and general hull maintenance? I'm curious what paints for steel boats are used in the PNW area.

I have an aluminum boat now, so this should be a bit different. I plan on putting in a isolation transformer. Lots of zincs, not sure what else to do. There is no room on the shaft for a anoid, so I think I will have to make a grounding divine that rides on shaft inside of the hull.
Pain I am also not sure about. I know there is a realy good undercoating but I am note sure what that is, and then this Vesel is not really yachty, so I don't think I need to worried about a supper high gloss gourgus Finnish. I know rustolium makes some good paints. Not sure that thought out hers will have for me but I do want to here.
Obie

Jeffrey S 02-25-2017 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obie (Post 527257)
I have an aluminum boat now, so this should be a bit different.

I think it will be different. Rust protection and paint will be incredibly important.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Obie (Post 527257)
There is no room on the shaft for a anoid, so I think I will have to make a grounding divine that rides on shaft inside of the hull.

There's nothing unusual about that. The resistance between the engine and the shaft brush inside the engine room should be around 1 ohm. We have two brushes like that - one on each engine.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Obie (Post 527257)
I know rustolium makes some good paints. Not sure that thought out hers will have for me but I do want to here.
Obie

We're keeping a "workboat" finish ourselves.

Rustoleum, I believe, isn't appropriate for outside the boat. I do use it on inside hull areas because it's much less obnoxious with fumes, etc, since we liveaboard. On the outside, you pretty much have to use an epoxy paint. It will be two part - selecting the primer and topcoat is religion with steel boats. You'll need to talk to a bunch of people to figure out what's best. I'd be very interested in your findings.

We use PPG Amercoat 235 for priming and 229T for topcoat. There's a lot that I don't like about 229T and I'm probably going to switch that.

RT Firefly 02-25-2017 01:00 PM

Greetings,
Mr. O. While there's not much wrong with Rustoleum, POR15 is a far superior coating for steel IMO. No UV protection so inside only.

Jeffrey S 02-25-2017 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RT Firefly (Post 527282)
Greetings,
Mr. O. While there's not much wrong with Rustoleum, POR15 is a far superior coating for steel IMO. No UV protection so inside only.

Firefly! I didn't know you had a steel boat. Glad to know you have some direct experience with this to share.

Rustoleum is significantly less expensive and for inside hull areas, they're more protected so as long as they are rust free, they don't need much. Rustoleum is also easily obtained online or in Home Depot and even Walmart. I think it's about 1/3rd the cost.

I like the Rusty Metal Primer and Gloss White topcoat. They're oil based but clean up pretty easily. I use Corroseal for rust treating although you'll likely want a couple of needle guns.

Obie 02-26-2017 08:14 PM

I am on a plane headed back to Oregon. So starting Tuesday I will be working on the girl full time trying to get her back in the water ASP.
Great forum, thank you all for your encouragements and help. I tend to kinda avoid the forums, just because of the responses you get back on so many of them. But this forum feels a bit different. There seams to be a lot of like minded people trying to help each other with real advice and intelligent toughts. Thank you all for allowing me to be part. With a bit of luck most things will go pretty smooth and she will be back in the water inside of 30 day. I will keep all posted.
Obie

Nomad Willy 02-26-2017 09:28 PM

Jeffrey,
I thought POR-15 just required that the loose stuff be brushed of prior to application. And where exposed they have a coating called (I belive) Chassy Coat frequently used on car frames. Fairly user friendly and a very high performing product.

Jeffrey S 02-26-2017 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad Willy (Post 527719)
Jeffrey,
I thought POR-15 just required that the loose stuff be brushed of prior to application. And where exposed they have a coating called (I belive) Chassy Coat frequently used on car frames. Fairly user friendly and a very high performing product.

POR-15 is good stuff. I've used it. The real problem is that if you get any of the material on the can lid edge, it'll seal the can.

I think for the price, Corroseal + Rustoleam primer/topcoat does as good a job for interior hull surfaces. Neither POR-15 nor Rustoleum are strong enough for a full outside, salt-water environment, IMO.

Using Corroseal is easy and binds the rust immediately giving you a week or more to cover with primer. That works really well in a do-it-yourself mode.

RT Firefly 02-26-2017 10:09 PM

Greetings,
When using POR15, place a couple layers of cling wrap or saran wrap over the top before you snug down the lid. You'll never have a problem re-opening the can.

Mr. NW. Yes, POR15 suggests you leave a light layer of rust on the surface to aid in bonding. I've never had a problem either leaving the skim of rust or applying to clean metal. The trick is to get a continuous coat so no moisture can wick through any voids in the paint layer and reach the substrate.

Rustoleum is very popular due to low price and aggressive marketing. It is not a bad coating but is not comparable to POR15 in toughness.

I was at a friends place years ago and he had used a piece of 1/2" re-bar to stir his can of POR. He gave me the re-bar and his 5lb sledge and dared me to chip the finish. No go. Half a dozen good whacks on his anvil with the sledge made no mark or impression.

No affiliation with the POR company, just a satisfied customer...

Obie 02-27-2017 07:52 AM

That POR15 sounds good, but it is interior only? We're do you get it.
Obie
What I'd good for the exterior?

RT Firefly 02-27-2017 08:02 AM

Greetings,
Mr. O. Stop Rust with POR-15 - We Know What Permanent Means! Interior only? You'll have to read the information on the website. The stuff I've used has no UV protection and must be overcoated AND there is a specific recommended procedure for that on the website. The website is fairly extensive so there may be a product you can use on the exterior. Give them a call. They stress not getting it on your skin. Believe them. It IS permanent.

SlowGypsy 02-27-2017 09:51 AM

POR 15 is indeed amazing stuff, 'though a bit pricey in my part of the world. (But what do we use on our boats that is not pricey?!)
Another product you might want to try is Devoe Pre-Prime 167.
This stuff is a 100% solids epoxy product, no shrinkage, and very thin - looks like water. It goes on very easy, converts and bonds the rust, and then you apply your choice of epoxy formulation on top. ( my current favourite is Devoe/Ameron Bar Rust 235.)
The main advantage I find with the PrePrime 167 is that it is "creepy"!
It is very thin, and it will literally creep uphill, getting into cracks and crevices that your brush can't reach. It will hit rust you can't even see. It creeps under gussets and frames and voids, and it displaces any water as it goes. Very useful for those situations where your arm is only just so long!
Not sure how compatible it is with POR 15 - that would be a question to ask the manufacturer.

Jeffrey S 02-27-2017 10:58 AM

POR-15 is good material for steel but I don't know of anyone using it on a steel hull. They might - I just haven't seen it in the recreational world.

The problem with getting advice for a steel boat is that a lot of people have fixed up a steel chair or railing somewhere and now think they're experts with steel boats. Don't get advice from these experts. Find people who have really used products over a long period of time on their own boat's hull. For what it's worth, I'm not in that class myself yet as I've only been learning about this all for about 8 months with our steel boat. I've gotten some dumb advice from people who painted a trailer once - turns out to be all wrong for a boat.

SlowGypsy - as you probably know Devoe and Ameron no longer exist as brands - they're all part of PPG now - I assume that's true in Canada too. For the exterior, I've pretty much standardized on AMERCOAT 235 which is wonderful stuff. And from everything I've learned about, for exterior steel, the primer is the most important step.

I had a PPG tech rep out to our boat 2 weeks ago and I learned a lot from him. We're currently using AMERCOAT 229T for our exterior topcoat but might change that to something harder and a little easier to obtain. I'd like to find some paint schedules from tug yards too in warmer climates with high sun exposure to see what they use.

I think that for interior, just staying on top of it and using something that is less toxic is the critical part. It should be inexpensive and easy-to-apply too. I'm liking Rustoleum products for that now. A different product like POR-15 might be great but if you liveaboard full-time, you really have to consider the environmental factors a bit more for the inside.

SlowGypsy 02-27-2017 11:44 AM

Hi Jeffrey: yes, the Ameron / Devoe story is a little convoluted!
Devoe has been around since 1754, and does still exist as a brand within PPG.
Both Devoe and International now come under the umbrella of the global brand Akzo-Nobel, but I still can buy my favourite Devoe branded products here in Ontario.
When Ameron and Devoe parted company, they both kept producing some of the same epoxies. So, Amercoat 235 is actually Devoe BarRust 235, both still available, as is Devoe Pre-Prime 167. You really should try some 167! It can be used under Rustoleum as well as epoxy.
I agree with your comments about using less toxic products in the interior!
I am doing my engine room with epoxy, and my lungs are not enjoying it, even with respirator! A full enclosure suit with supplied air would be better!

To the OP, I would not use Rustoleum or Tremclad on an exterior boat surface, 'though I must confess to having used them on lawn chairs in the past. 😃
I did my entire deck and cabin trunks, rust and all, with Pr-Prime and BarRust235 over fifteen years ago, and they are still holding up beautifully.
I have been (mostly successfully!) chasing boat rust for over thirty years now.
Everybody has their favourite brand, but in my opinion, they are all pretty good, so long as you follow directions.

By the way, I am currently looking at trawlers, and the more I research, and the more I see the issues with fibreglass, the more I love my old steel boat!

SlowGypsy 02-27-2017 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey S (Post 527912)
And from everything I've learned about, for exterior steel, the primer is the most important step..

This, of course, is true for painting any surface, interior or exterior. 90% or more of a successful paint or varnish job is in the preparation.
Devoe 235 is a surface-tolerant product that can be applied directly to bare steel, or rusted steel, but I still think a good primer is a good idea.

With RedHead, you certainly have a very nice reason to be interested in becoming an expert in the application of protective coatings for steel!

Jeffrey S 02-27-2017 11:57 AM

SlowGypsy - what do you use for an exterior topcoat? I'm struggling with that now. I'd love to make a connection with you outside here too - us steel boat owners need to stick together. There should be a group just for steel boats - I'll likely make one in ActiveCaptain if there's no other place to discuss things like this.

chriscritchett 02-27-2017 12:35 PM

Don't want to get in trouble for promoting another site here, but if you look up the Metal Boat Society you may find what you're looking for. Seems to be way more sailboat oriented, but still people with the same issues.

By the way, I've been chasing paint nirvana on my 1961 steel boat for a long time now, and DeVoe 235 seems to be religion pretty universally as a primer. For various reasons I've been using Sherwin Williams industrial / marine products most recently and I'm guessing they're pretty equivalent. Been very happy with them. And as much of a pain as it is, have to recommend going with a 2-part urethane outside. No comparison to single part paints that I've seen.

chriscritchett 02-27-2017 12:36 PM

For topcoat that is...


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