Winterizing Assistance

[MikeM]

Good morning,

Does anyone have any recommendations for someone in the Hampton Roads area that could assist me in winterizing our KK42? She is in the water at Salt Ponds Marina in Hampton.

I would like to do as much of it as possible myself, but would like some help with the engine and generator. This will be my first, and hopefully only, time doing this; so I want to be sure I do it correctly.

Thanks, Mike

 

[gehales]

Full Throttle Diesel
757-546-7936

Used them last year. Quick, reliable, competitively priced.

Greg Hales
"Tranquility"
KK42-023

 

[MikeM]

Full Throttle Diesel
757-546-7936

Used them last year. Quick, reliable, competitively priced.

Greg Hales
"Tranquility"
KK42-023

Thanks Greg! I got that same recommendation from someone on the Krogen Cruisers Forum. I'll give them a call.

 

[hmason]

Thought you wanted to do it yourself. Winterizing a genny and an engine is easy.
1. Run the engine and generator up to temperature and then change the oil and the oil filter.
2. Close the seawater intake, remove the top of the seawater strainer and pour non-toxic antifreeze into the strainer while an assistant runs the engine until the stuff comes out of the exhaust for a minute or so. Do this for both the engine and the generator.
3. Go home, you are done with the engine and generator and saved a bunch of $$$.
4. Remember to open the seawater thru hulls when you start the units in the spring.

Good luck, Howard

 

[MikeM]

Thought you wanted to do it yourself. Winterizing a genny and an engine is easy.
1. Run the engine and generator up to temperature and then change the oil and the oil filter.
2. Close the seawater intake, remove the top of the seawater strainer and pour non-toxic antifreeze into the strainer while an assistant runs the engine until the stuff comes out of the exhaust for a minute or so. Do this for both the engine and the generator.
3. Go home, you are done with the engine and generator and saved a bunch of $$$.
4. Remember to open the seawater thru hulls when you start the units in the spring.

Good luck, Howard

That does sound kind of easy. I guess I should give it a try. Do I need to rig up a 5 gallon pail with a hose running into the sea strainer?

 

[hmason]

No, I simply line up the bottles of the antifreeze with the bottles opened. I then pour them in as needed. For the generator you will need less antifreeze than for the engine. I should add that I'm assuming the glycol antifreeze in the freshwater cooling system of both units is up to snuff.

 

[timjet]

It is indeed a project you can do yourself, but it needs to be done correctly.

I did it for the first time last month and spent a ton of time researching the proper methods. Do a search with my log in name "timjet" to get good info.

BoatUS has a good checklist on their web site but the info on this forum is much better.

Don't forget the engines aren't the only system that needs winterizing.

 

[MikeM]

Tim/Howard, Thanks for the info. I re-read all of the winterizing threads. I think I will give it a shot. Seems like the most variation on the FW system. Not sure if I want to put the pink stuff in or try blowing out the lines.

 

[psneeld]

Tim/Howard, Thanks for the info. I re-read all of the winterizing threads. I think I will give it a shot. Seems like the most variation on the FW system. Not sure if I want to put the pink stuff in or try blowing out the lines.

If your water system is easy and accessible, don't be afraid to use pink antifreeze.
In the lines is no big deal, in the water heater and water tanks is another story as they are harder to flush.
If you drain the heater and tanks well, they are usually fine with no antifreeze.

 

[timjet]

Doesn't make sense to blow out the lines to me. You still need to fill all your fw lines with anti-freeze. Blowing out the lines will not remove all the water, especially in low spots where it will collect and allow air to pass above, ready to cause trouble when it freezes.

I've heard the pink stuff is very difficult to get out of water tanks and heaters, so best to empty as best you can and leave alone.

 

[Tomas]

Blowing the lines out makes sense if you don't put antifreeze in your water tanks. I put antifreeze in the lines from the pump to the outlets and blow out the pickup lines back to tanks.

 

[Bacchus]

I read a lot about +/- of blowing out vs pink when I first started doing boats & RV's. The recommendation that mode the most sense to me (and my procedure now) is to hook up a compressor using a fitting in the hose inlet (I have switched to an air quick connect so I can do it single handed) open all the outlets to get MOST of the water out. I installed a bypass on the HWH so after draining it I bypass before pinking. I usually allow a small amt pf pink into the HWH just to protect the outlet fitting. I then pink via 3 way valve installed on inlet to the FW pump.
Why this makes sense to me is...
By blowing down first you don't have to guess if you've ran enough pink - w/ little / water to dilute when you see pink that's enough.
Rational to not just blow down (or blow down after pink) is that bacteria (& other STUFF) likes moist air but doesn't like submerged... if you blow down all the lines are damp and more likely to grow stuff you don't want all through the system.
Flushing the lines is the easy part by hooking up to shore power and letting outlets run. Tanks are more of a challenge but you don't need much pink in a tank that's well drained - only enough to protect the outlet connection. a couple of partial fills & drains will usually clear them up and I usually do a Clorox clean / flush of tank / lines each spring anyhow to start the season "fresh".
Just my methods & rational... everybody has their favorite and may ways to do it.

 

[Spottsville]

Good morning,

Does anyone have any recommendations for someone in the Hampton Roads area that could assist me in winterizing our KK42? She is in the water at Salt Ponds Marina in Hampton.

I would like to do as much of it as possible myself, but would like some help with the engine and generator. This will be my first, and hopefully only, time doing this; so I want to be sure I do it correctly.

Thanks, Mike

Does your KK have a Seachest?

 

[MikeM]

Does your KK have a Seachest?

No it doesn't.


Mike Metts
KK 42-165
Virginia Beach, VA

Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[MikeM]

I winterized the engine and genset this weekend. The engine was a piece of cake. The genset...not so much. Opening the stainer to pour in the af apparently caused it to lose suction. I ran it for a few minutes waiting to pour in the af but it was not drawing in anything. So I shut it down.

Thinking that the impeller was bad, I replaced it. But the old one looked fine, and it apparently was. It took me forever to get the air out of the line and get the genset to draw in the af. I hope someone can suggest an easy way to prime/purge air from the raw water loop before I try to start the genset in the spring!


Mike Metts
KK 42-165
Virginia Beach, VA

Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[Spottsville]

After the engines comes the water system and HVAC. Same as the engines you have to get the pink in the lines so start at the thru hull and enter the system water intake and substitute pink no-tox for water. For me it was very easy....block off the water intakes (plug the sea chest by pulling a swim float under sea chest to block it off) then pour the pink in the sea chest as each pump runs. For you, with no sea chest you may be able to pour pink in the sea strainer or couple the raw water hoses to a bucket of pink.

The freshwater system may be easier depending on how many water tanks you have. For me its one and its 480 gallons so I remove the intake hose and couple it to a 5 gallon bucket full of pink, then EVERY faucet and appliance, and head, must be systematically run (furthest away from pump first) until pink shows bright. I bought pink this year for $2 per gallon and used 35 gallons total. My water tank still has 350 gallons in it (port side) and I wont drain it until our nights and days stay below 32deg. I know will list when I drain the tank, (I mistakenly filled the 480 gallon diesel tank on the starboard side and my main 900 gallon tank was already 3/4 full) so I'm waiting until later to pump it overboard so I can conteniue to process my winter todo list while still level.

Don't forget any wash down pumps (fresh or raw water) hoses or outside showers and remember to pump out the holding tank and run pink through all the heads. I bypassed and drained our water heater and if you have an active water maker........>>>>>> read your manual.

I suggest if you have to cut or open any hoses insert the proper fitting so next year you can open a valve instead of busting your knuckles...

Last but not least enjoy..yes it is work but it can be a challenge which can also be fun!

 

[hmason]

Don't forget windshield washers if you have them. I also pour a gallon or two in the bilge and run some thru the bilge pumps.

 

[timjet]

Yes for sure add af to the bilges. I was worried about the bilge pump hoses too, but the shrink wrap guy said since the pumps don't have check valves water flows back into the bilge so no water should be trapped and freeze in the hoses.

 

[MikeM]

After the engines comes the water system and HVAC. Same as the engines you have to get the pink in the lines so start at the thru hull and enter the system water intake and substitute pink no-tox for water. For me it was very easy....block off the water intakes (plug the sea chest by pulling a swim float under sea chest to block it off) then pour the pink in the sea chest as each pump runs. For you, with no sea chest you may be able to pour pink in the sea strainer or couple the raw water hoses to a bucket of pink.

The freshwater system may be easier depending on how many water tanks you have. For me its one and its 480 gallons so I remove the intake hose and couple it to a 5 gallon bucket full of pink, then EVERY faucet and appliance, and head, must be systematically run (furthest away from pump first) until pink shows bright. I bought pink this year for $2 per gallon and used 35 gallons total. My water tank still has 350 gallons in it (port side) and I wont drain it until our nights and days stay below 32deg. I know will list when I drain the tank, (I mistakenly filled the 480 gallon diesel tank on the starboard side and my main 900 gallon tank was already 3/4 full) so I'm waiting until later to pump it overboard so I can conteniue to process my winter todo list while still level.

Don't forget any wash down pumps (fresh or raw water) hoses or outside showers and remember to pump out the holding tank and run pink through all the heads. I bypassed and drained our water heater and if you have an active water maker........>>>>>> read your manual.

I suggest if you have to cut or open any hoses insert the proper fitting so next year you can open a valve instead of busting your knuckles...

Last but not least enjoy..yes it is work but it can be a challenge which can also be fun!

Yes...water and HVAC this weekend. I've already done the raw water wash down and forward bilge. I also plan to bypass and drain water heater before doing the rest of the fresh water system...less water tanks.

Thanks for all the advice!


Mike Metts
KK 42-165
Virginia Beach, VA

Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[cappy208]

I would recommend buying an antifreeze tester to make sure the fresh water radiators of the engine and Genset are at minus 20 or so. It doesn't matter if you flush the seawater side, if the interior loop isn't protected.

I have not found a tester to test the 'pink rv stuff' for freeze protection. It is not glycol based. BUT, it is really cheap. So, in My opinion, more is better. Err on the side of caution.

I use my pink stuff to flush the fresh water system. I catch ALL of it after I have blown the lines out with compressed air. Then I reuse the 'used' stuff as an initial flush for the AC system. Then flush the AC system with a gallon of new pink. I catch the last gallon of pink from the AC and use it in the generator. Then flush with another gallon in the Generator. Catch the last gallon and use it to flush the Engine. Then use 3 gallons to flush the engine until all the water coming out the exhaust is pink.

My sea strainers have removable lid. These are conveniently just oversized to use 12 wraps of electrical tape around the threads of the bottle, and a quick tip over and I can step on the bottle and give a 'power assist' to the pink stuff on its way.

BTW, The earlier question about 'sea chests' refers to a valve on the water intake hose. If you really don't have a valve on EACH and EVERY seawater intake hose (below the waterline) you should have them installed.

Speaking as an ex yachtyard worker, many (I mean MANY sinking, swamping, or near misses) are caused by below the waterline intakes that (even WITH valves) are not shut, when the boat is not in use. This is a FATAL mistake made by a majority of boat owners who routinely leave underwater valves open. This is not just a idle topic, but valves that are not used regularly often get seized up, and need large efforts (or shipyard haulhouts) to make them right (loosening up or replacing)

If you do have the valves installed, use them. Use them regularly. They make flushing easier, and allow you to use the valve to force the pink stuff in the right direction. The only thing to remember, is to open the valves once you are done, to let the water drain out, so nothing freezes in the valve. Just make sure you close them, so critters dont crawl in and make a nest. That's a 'itch' to clean out next spring.

 

[MikeM]

I would recommend buying an antifreeze tester to make sure the fresh water radiators of the engine and Genset are at minus 20 or so. It doesn't matter if you flush the seawater side, if the interior loop isn't protected.

I have not found a tester to test the 'pink rv stuff' for freeze protection. It is not glycol based. BUT, it is really cheap. So, in My opinion, more is better. Err on the side of caution.

I use my pink stuff to flush the fresh water system. I catch ALL of it after I have blown the lines out with compressed air. Then I reuse the 'used' stuff as an initial flush for the AC system. Then flush the AC system with a gallon of new pink. I catch the last gallon of pink from the AC and use it in the generator. Then flush with another gallon in the Generator. Catch the last gallon and use it to flush the Engine. Then use 3 gallons to flush the engine until all the water coming out the exhaust is pink.

My sea strainers have removable lid. These are conveniently just oversized to use 12 wraps of electrical tape around the threads of the bottle, and a quick tip over and I can step on the bottle and give a 'power assist' to the pink stuff on its way.

BTW, The earlier question about 'sea chests' refers to a valve on the water intake hose. If you really don't have a valve on EACH and EVERY seawater intake hose (below the waterline) you should have them installed.

Speaking as an ex yachtyard worker, many (I mean MANY sinking, swamping, or near misses) are caused by below the waterline intakes that (even WITH valves) are not shut, when the boat is not in use. This is a FATAL mistake made by a majority of boat owners who routinely leave underwater valves open. This is not just a idle topic, but valves that are not used regularly often get seized up, and need large efforts (or shipyard haulhouts) to make them right (loosening up or replacing)

If you do have the valves installed, use them. Use them regularly. They make flushing easier, and allow you to use the valve to force the pink stuff in the right direction. The only thing to remember, is to open the valves once you are done, to let the water drain out, so nothing freezes in the valve. Just make sure you close them, so critters dont crawl in and make a nest. That's a 'itch' to clean out next spring.

Cappy,

I was thinking a sea chest was a single hull penetration that multiple systems fed off of. On my boat, each system that needs sea water has it's own thru-hull...each of which has its own valve. I am closing them as I winterize.

I'm confused by one thing you wrote. Are you saying they should be opened or closed for the winter?


Mike Metts
KK 42-165
Virginia Beach, VA

Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[cappy208]

The valves should be opened, to drain out whatever is it that portion of the hose. Then, once drained, closed back up. The last couple feet of hose from the valve to the strainers are hard to get the sea water out. Usually there is a dip or a U in the hose. When putting the pink stuff into the strainer it is hard to get it to flow backwards to the throughull with certainty. By opening the valve (then shutting it for the winter) you ensure the bronze valve body is free of ANY possible unprotected water. I mention shutting them, because I have heard of several times that wasps or hornets made a mud nest inside the opening, and once launched that gets sucked into the hose fittings. A pain to have to pull apart every one until you find the culprit. Also, make sure you buy a small can of Lubriplate waterpump grease. Not only good for the impeller, but good to use to put some grease on the ball of the thruhulls from the outside. Also, lubriplate is just generally good to have aboard for general preventative use.

 

[Carolena]

Cappy - it sounds like you are talking about valves open if hauled for the winter. I think MikeM is wintering in the slip like we do, which means valves closed to keep the ocean out, not critters.

 

[MikeM]

Cappy - it sounds like you are talking about valves open if hauled for the winter. I think MikeM is wintering in the slip like we do, which means valves closed to keep the ocean out, not critters.

Yes you are right. Finished up tonight. The advice I got on this forum really helped. And I learned a lot in the process of doing it.


Mike Metts
KK 42-165
Virginia Beach, VA

Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[DavidM]

Let's talk about seacocks and whether you should leave them open or closed after winterization. Both ball valve seacocks and tapered plug seacocks have a cavity that if left full of sea water could freeze and damage the valve.

So if the boat is on the hard- absolutely, positively, no question- leave all seacocks open so the cavity will drain and it won't freeze.

But if the boat is kept in the water, then it is a bit more problematical. You probably want to keep your seacocks closed, just as a good precaution against hoses popping off or whatever that might sink your boat if they are left open.

If you are in moderate climates where the water doesn't freeze around your boat or you have a bubbler that keeps it ice free, then you can probably close he seacock and not worry about the cavity freezing.

But if you are in harsher climates, say north of the Chesapeake, the water can freeze deeply- 6" or more, and even a bubbler won't keep it ice free in an extended power outage.

In this case, most ball and plug valves have a little 1/8" NPT plug that can be removed when the valve is closed to drain the cavity. Whether you leave the plug off or not during the winter is another question. Tapered plug valves particularly can leak and let sea water refill the cavity. So I would leave the plug off in that case. Ball valves with Teflon seats seal very well and if you know that your valve is in good shape and seals tight I would put the plug back in. But leaving it off until spring is safest.

David

 

[Bacchus]

An additional note of caution...
Mainship had a technical bulletin affecting multiple models from 2002 - 2009
"SERVICE BULLETINLetters sent to owners 11/27/07 & 1/3/08: Mainship has made metallurgical analysis of Marine Hardware brand ball valves, which were installed by on their vessels between 2001 through 2007. Preliminary information is that corrosion may affect the stem or handle of the ball valve, which means that the handle may turn without actually opening and closing the ball valve as intended in the event of maintenance or an emergency."

I experienced a problem the first year winterizing my 2008 Mainship34 HT Trawler. The stop on one of the seacock valve handles had corroded and did not provide a positive stop at the correct ball position - the result was a slow weep of raw water into the ball cavity after draining via the valve drain plug. It was only after hauling and removing the valve that the problem was identified. At the time I was not aware of the bulletin or the BoatUS Consumer complaint database. The fix was an easy one - replace the handle but the lesson learned was to always confirm the ball cavity has been drained and to check the Boat US complaint database for potential problems.

 

[cappy208]

Cappy - it sounds like you are talking about valves open if hauled for the winter. I think MikeM is wintering in the slip like we do, which means valves closed to keep the ocean out, not critters.

Yes, I missed the wintering over part. I was responding as if this was hauled out on the hard for the winter. Sorry for the confusion.

Regarding the valves, look at the valve type. There are two (that I know of) that have an integral flush spigot (for lack of a better word) to hook a hose to to inject antifreeze into the hose right next to the valve. This was the entire hose is protected from freeze damage. The sea valve is left in the closed position. Hopefully you have one of the types that has a flush valve built in. I am contemplating swapping my sea valve for one of these next year. Here's one that can be installed immediately after the sea valve. http://www.westmarine.com/buy/groco...uW8JbJVcnFqgBNK1P0LRFJXUSmPQDCA4EZBoCxl_w_wcB