Alaskan Sea-Duction
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Gov. Brown signs boating safety law
- Thread starter Alaskan Sea-Duction
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
SaltyDawg86
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Oh no, now you will learn the rules of the road and hopefully become a safe boat operator. Ohhh the horror!!!!
OFB
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Its an honest try, maybe it might even keep a few folk from getting into the "sport"
But we have had the PCOC here in BC for a while. I am not seeing any benefit on the water ways I live on, play on, and work on.
More recently the fellow that now teaches the Fraser power squadron is not only incompetent in the operation of any water craft but he is simply dangerous behind the helm of anything. Boggles the mind. But he is unwilling to take a few boat rides with me, so I just shake my head and fend off!
My point , be aware be safe, be respectful can help ensure some fun when pleasure cruising. The license or written proof of competency just don't seem to be doing the trick.
Worth the try I guess.
All IMO
But we have had the PCOC here in BC for a while. I am not seeing any benefit on the water ways I live on, play on, and work on.
More recently the fellow that now teaches the Fraser power squadron is not only incompetent in the operation of any water craft but he is simply dangerous behind the helm of anything. Boggles the mind. But he is unwilling to take a few boat rides with me, so I just shake my head and fend off!
My point , be aware be safe, be respectful can help ensure some fun when pleasure cruising. The license or written proof of competency just don't seem to be doing the trick.
Worth the try I guess.
All IMO
Yup. How many people with drivers licenses get into wrecks on a daily basis?
You can't legislate common sense. But they try. you can't legislate safety. But they try. You can't legislate sobriety. But they try. You can't legislate knowledge. But they try.
You can't legislate common sense. But they try. you can't legislate safety. But they try. You can't legislate sobriety. But they try. You can't legislate knowledge. But they try.
Tunajoe
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psneeld
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In NJ, where it's been around for awhile...
It really hasn't reduced the number of numbskulls on the water so the only accidents it's helping with is newbies not doing dumb things like anchoring from the stern (to a point at least)...seems to have helped in that little way.
But the big thing it has done has provided a means of keeping SOME people off the water by now having something that can be taken away (for whatever reason) and the fines/punishment much more severe if caught operating without it.
It really hasn't reduced the number of numbskulls on the water so the only accidents it's helping with is newbies not doing dumb things like anchoring from the stern (to a point at least)...seems to have helped in that little way.
But the big thing it has done has provided a means of keeping SOME people off the water by now having something that can be taken away (for whatever reason) and the fines/punishment much more severe if caught operating without it.
TONTOROSS
Senior Member
Look guy's, no one is everything. What I am has nothing to do with boating. For insurance & rule of regulation. We took the Oregon Boaters ED. No big deal. We are putting in as much motoring time as possible. So, here is a story. My saddle pard & I were on the Columbia. All was going fine. We went down river frm Portland & just tried this & that. Getting to know the boat. On our return up river, there were several go-fast boats. No problem (keep looking over your shoulder) slow boats we passed. Then we met a sailboat that was going down river (about a 32' Catalina) he was trying to tack, on a dead on the bow wind. To shorten this up, I watched him frm about a mile away. I moved, what I thought was way out of his port tack. He changed course as soon as I moved over. I came back to center channel, & stayed on that course. As we closed to within 100 yrds, he luffed the sails & came at us bow to bow. With a little power, we went around on our starboard. Just a thought, is it illegal to mount a Maw 2 on the bow?
OK... So's here a little breakdown on article about the NEW Law!
Though the new law is still more than three years away from being implemented, the authors and supports of Senate Bill 941 hope to address the nearly 200 to 500 boating accident injuries that reportedly occurred annually between 2004 and 2013. As you will see in 2nd to last paragraph - that tiny number is out of 4 million boaters
Specifically, 46 percent of incidents involve a motorboat, compared to 18 percent for personal water boats such as jet skis) and 17 percent for cabin motorboats. 17 percent of an average 300 annual boating accident injuries = only about 50 injuries per year for all boaters in CA that are similar to we members of TF. Those injuries could happen for many reasons other than what a govt regulated "boating" course will address! And, that very low injury count would hardly register on the percentage scale
According to Senate Bill 941, California’s Division of Boating and Wildlife serves an estimated four million recreational boaters who in turn operate about 2.6 million recreational boats. Govt's BIG Blind Hand reaches into another sector of free lance public enjoyment!
Even more, Senate Bill 941 applies only to recreational boating, not kayakers, standup paddleboard users, or any others intermingling with the boats. Peddle Bike riders have become a very pushy nuisance on many roads. I have complete respect for their right to ride on side of roads. I have NO respect for their increasing push into traffic lanes and the fact that many of them take no concern for traffic laws. Far as most bicyclers are concerned stop signs, redlights, arm turn signals mean nothing. I've said for years... make any bicycle that is ridden on roads be licensed. Cops should ticket bike riders similar to auto drivers for breaking rules of the road. This would be a good way for Da Govt to raise more funds and it would level the playing field for occurrances between autos and bicycles. Reason I bring this up in this thread's boating discussion - If Da Govt is going to make boaters pass a course, than so should the kayakers, paddleboarders and other waterborne equipment users be required to pass a test. You'll see what I mean when you read the link.
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The problem with reading newspaper articles is the reporters are often idiots. From the article:
In South Carolina, adults do not need boating safety courses. All they need is to be able to buy, borrow or rent a boat. There's a marina locally that advertises "Boats for rent - no experience needed". I followed one of these boats on the ICW coming home from mu cruise. All over the channel and erratic speeds.
If you're going to write newspaper articles, it might be a good idea to do the research first.
And that's a good thing. In SC, your "privilege to operate a boat" can be taken away for violations but since there's no license or card granting that privilege, there's really no effective way to take that privilege away.
OFB
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Honestly Ron what part of "card" ownership will keep the usual two, three, four, six time offender from operating a boat.
Guys remember the stats collected will never represent that part of the story. Fines ? they don't care, courts with loss of freedoms for the convicted for driving with out said "card" ? really , like they have something to loose.
Random thought's. Why have our societies come to such a point where we the honest hard working, respectful folk are actually the guys being penalized with the loss of our freedoms ?
Follow the cash !
IMO.
SaltyDawg86
Senior Member
I'm a fan of it, y'all have it easy compared to guys who sail as officers in the Merchant Fleet. Boo hoo you have to take a class, if it keeps just one idiot from making my life miserable while I'm underway, it's doing it's job. After all, if an accident happens and I was in the right, I still get screwed and there goes my career....
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I'm confused. Frequently on this forum I have seen posts by members highly critical of other boaters actions, (read antics), and clear lack of knowledge of even the most basic rules of the (sea) road. In many countries like Australia we have had mandatory licensing of boat owners/operators for some years, and this has been reflected in less boating 'accidents'. It is a good idea. I would say a must, now there are so many boaters out there, and the number is growing, and many are getting bigger, faster and more powerful.
Now you have a state doing something similar, many of you are still cynical…! What gives..?
Now you have a state doing something similar, many of you are still cynical…! What gives..?
FF
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IF I was a resident of CT , mu USCG 100T endorsement would not allow me to drive my dink.
I must pass a CT test. OH yes there is a co$t to take the test.
I must pass a CT test. OH yes there is a co$t to take the test.
Well perhaps we should get rid of drivers licenses, pilots licenses, plumber and electricians licenses and quit licensing doctors as well.
One of the legitimate functions of government is protecting its citizens. Not just from foreign enemies but from other citizens. By requiring drivers, pilots and hopefully boaters to demonstrate competence or at least a knowledge of the rules and safety practices, the government is protecting me from their carelessness.
It's not perfect, just as the drivers license requirement is not perfect but it is a step in the right direction. If you can pass the test, it's not an inconvenience for you and it may save your boat or your life.
Tom.B
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I don't hate the idea and don't know why it has been so long coming? It can be very dangerous out there and there are a lot of people that just don't "get it". I will qualify that by saying that most of us (meaning the larger tonnage vessels) *DO* pay attention to our surroundings because A) we know what damage larger boats like ours can do & B) Our boats are our "babies". They are expensive to fix and we have all put many hundreds of blood, sweat, and tears into keeping them up.
No, like someone said earlier, the majority of accidents and deaths, by a wide margin, are the smaller sport, skiff, bay, and small fishing boat owners. I call them "boat owners" and not "boaters", not to be derogatory, but because they have a boat... grab the pickup truck and ten friends... and throw it in any body of water, they think they can do whatever they please. Most don't embrace the lifestyle of being a boater. My apologies if I offend anyone here because I really am painting with a broad brush.
Many go out Willy Nilly without any regard to weather or sea conditions in boats that HAVE NO BUSINESS and WERE NOT DESIGNED for the body of water they are in. They don't pay any attention to nav aids or understand rules of the road or who is the stand-on vessel when underway. Many don't have, or don't monitor, a VHF radio. They have a $2000 fishing reel and no chart plotter. They bring onboard a cooler of water and a pallet of Miller Lite.
I have a friend who has owned many boats since we were kids and NEVER knew why inlets were sometimes impossible to get thru in their 18' Dixie (example). Just last year I explained to him about tide and winds and what is really going on and it was like I told him Santa Clause wasn't real! Anyway, I see people in crowded turning basins letting their 8 year-old kid drive. I see boats, clearly designed for four people, loaded with six, eight, or more AND enough camping gear to scale Mount Everest. I'm certainly not surprising anyone here. Y'all have seen it all and probably way worse.
Hey, I won't say I remember everything I learned 5 years ago in the USCG course we took (and I was planning on a refresher sooner-or-later) nor do I don't pretend that a program like the one in CA will work to end boating accidents. However, like the driver's license program, it does, at least, give a MINIMAL amount of comfort to me and does put SOME liability back onto the operators.
No, like someone said earlier, the majority of accidents and deaths, by a wide margin, are the smaller sport, skiff, bay, and small fishing boat owners. I call them "boat owners" and not "boaters", not to be derogatory, but because they have a boat... grab the pickup truck and ten friends... and throw it in any body of water, they think they can do whatever they please. Most don't embrace the lifestyle of being a boater. My apologies if I offend anyone here because I really am painting with a broad brush.
Many go out Willy Nilly without any regard to weather or sea conditions in boats that HAVE NO BUSINESS and WERE NOT DESIGNED for the body of water they are in. They don't pay any attention to nav aids or understand rules of the road or who is the stand-on vessel when underway. Many don't have, or don't monitor, a VHF radio. They have a $2000 fishing reel and no chart plotter. They bring onboard a cooler of water and a pallet of Miller Lite.
I have a friend who has owned many boats since we were kids and NEVER knew why inlets were sometimes impossible to get thru in their 18' Dixie (example). Just last year I explained to him about tide and winds and what is really going on and it was like I told him Santa Clause wasn't real! Anyway, I see people in crowded turning basins letting their 8 year-old kid drive. I see boats, clearly designed for four people, loaded with six, eight, or more AND enough camping gear to scale Mount Everest. I'm certainly not surprising anyone here. Y'all have seen it all and probably way worse.
Hey, I won't say I remember everything I learned 5 years ago in the USCG course we took (and I was planning on a refresher sooner-or-later) nor do I don't pretend that a program like the one in CA will work to end boating accidents. However, like the driver's license program, it does, at least, give a MINIMAL amount of comfort to me and does put SOME liability back onto the operators.
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SaltyDawg86
Senior Member
How's that so? It's a federal license. Va allows guys who have a license to bypass that class.
And being given a license doesn't prevent accidents, but knowing what to do and what not to do is half the battle. How much would you know if you didn't take a driving class before you started driving?
mahal
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I'm not confused by the responses at all. It's actually what I expected. Don't people in your part of the world like to whine about any new laws or just about anything for that matter? I hope this isn't just us.
Bay Pelican
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There is some truth in both sides of this discussion. No one has ever said I was a big government proponent. I have taught basic boating classes every year for a generation. My take is that something should be done.
I have taught classes where the owner of a 46 foot planing boat did not know what the green and red things in the water meant other than to go between them. He was taking the course for insurance reasons. I have seen student after student shocked to hear that one should limit one's time on the VHF hailing channel to hailing only and then switch. Propane tanks on a boat and ventilation for gas inboard engines were other favorites for pure ignorance. What are the right of way rules (what right of way rules?). Anyone who has taught a basic boating course can tell story after story, the new stories never end.
I followed what was done in Canada requiring permit/licenses and knew from the beginning that sooner or later the United States would follow suit. My hope is that it will be effective.
I have taught classes where the owner of a 46 foot planing boat did not know what the green and red things in the water meant other than to go between them. He was taking the course for insurance reasons. I have seen student after student shocked to hear that one should limit one's time on the VHF hailing channel to hailing only and then switch. Propane tanks on a boat and ventilation for gas inboard engines were other favorites for pure ignorance. What are the right of way rules (what right of way rules?). Anyone who has taught a basic boating course can tell story after story, the new stories never end.
I followed what was done in Canada requiring permit/licenses and knew from the beginning that sooner or later the United States would follow suit. My hope is that it will be effective.
OFB
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Well perhaps we should get rid of drivers licenses, pilots licenses, plumber and electricians licenses and quit licensing doctors as well.
One of the legitimate functions of government is protecting its citizens. Not just from foreign enemies but from other citizens. By requiring drivers, pilots and hopefully boaters to demonstrate competence or at least a knowledge of the rules and safety practices, the government is protecting me from their carelessness.
It's not perfect, just as the drivers license requirement is not perfect but it is a step in the right direction. If you can pass the test, it's not an inconvenience for you and it may save your boat or your life.
Ron I guess my point is that the card is not addressing the actual handling of a boat. The card is not addressing the types of vessel one is "qualified" to run. Its kinda scary seeing a 45' 450 HP twin engine cruiser running up behind you in close quarters , knowing full well the guy behind the helm has like 40 hours total running boats. Here the "card" can be obtained by folk that are unable to speak English. I have still never received a solid answer as to how a Mayday can be handled. Just a couple of examples.
Maybe some sort of graduated license would be more in order.
Again just random thoughts.
Brooksie
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Agree. Licenses, for the most part, are a state money grab. If gov. moonbat's state of CA can find a way to bring in more money, they will do it. States that have licensing requirements do not seem to have better accident records. Swift, harsh, & complete punishment of existing lawbreakers seems a better answer.
psneeld
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Actually they aren't a money grab everywhere.
In NJ (the tax state) I think only $5 of the course went to the state at most to defray the paperwork costs.
My guess if the courses are run for less than $50/person in your state, and it's being taught by private providers, I doubt the state is getting much at all.
It may even be a federal funding issue...that states aren't allowed to make it a tax...just cover fees.
OFB
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Yes and no.
There is a ton of motivation to collect tax on that 45 foot twin powered yacht, even with the knowledge that the guy making the purchase has zero experience running it. That card is not addressing this issue.
Again just random thoughts.
Like you I live aboard and run around helping folk. The card is not improving my pleasure cruising experience. I am suggesting the "card" is actually giving folk some sort of false scents of abilities.
Again just some random thoughts.
Just trying to create some sort of order in my own head. You have to laugh.:lol:
Brooksie
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Not a money grab yet in NJ maybe. But first they have to get their foot in the door. Anything the state gets involved in eventually becomes a fiefdom of bureaucrats feeding on the public. That moron that drowned the 2 kids in NJ could have had a license and it would not have prevented him from overloading and putting 10 POB his flying bridge, then blaming the boatbuilder. Putting him in prison would be more effective than issuing expensive pieces of paper.
Tom.B
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You guys please try not to turn this into a political discussion. **stares right at Brookie for starting this tangent** There is a good discussion going on. If it turns political, it goes away ;-)
River Cruiser
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The thing to remember is the legislature in any state or the members of the U.S. Congress don't think new laws up on their own. Someone is lobbying them to pass it in this case insurance companies, law enforcement organizations, BoatUS or similar organizations that are interested in education of boaters.
kthoennes
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Oh, that's not nececessarily true River Cruiser. The recent federal decision to go to annual renewal fees for fed documented vessels - overwhelming public opposition but the agency did it anyway. Here in South Dakota we used to register boats for two years. They recently reduced it to every year and increased the fees. No lobbyists or public pressure for those, all about higher agency revenues, initiated by the agencies themselves.
