Loss of SV Rum Truffle, Bahia del Sol bar, El Salvador

In another thread maybe I asked Scott if he noticed in addition to the 8 foot min what the max depth was at the time. He answered about 12 feet but of course was not glued to the sounder.
From this information, calm water depth would be about 10 feet.
Rum Truffle was bound to bottom out if the day later high tide was a foot lower or the wave crest to trough spread was say 7 to 11, or 7 to 13

How does Bill determine the "safe" course?
I know it`s no pilot operated bar crossing and things are different down there but an understanding of choosing the safe(er) course, and how and when it is checked would help instill confidence. Local knowledge is vital for an ever changing bar crossing, something of "black art" based on living and boating there for so long. Regular use of good sonar system would seem important, especially when prevailing conditions suggest to an old hand that change is afoot.
Other people relying on Bill`s expertise makes it a big deal. I can`t imagine PL Insurance is in play but Rum Truffle`s insurers may be wondering.

BruceK said:

How does Bill determine the "safe" course?

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Great question Bruce! And one that has been asked by many people many times . . . . with no clear answers.
Note, the pilot boat had no depth sounder, no GPS, and no compass.
Water depth was determined, WHEN it was actually checked, with a lead line.
I can't think of any way that the pilot boat could legitimately determine where the "deep" water actually was, and how they could possibly guide boats into that channel effectively.

They have stated that they have procured a depth sounder for the panga pilot boat, but without a chartplotter to plot the actual depths observed, in my opinion, just a depth sounder, while a tiny step in the right direction is of limited value.

slowgoesit said:

Great question Bruce! And one that has been asked by many people many times . . . . with no clear answers.
Note, the pilot boat had no depth sounder, no GPS, and no compass.
Water depth was determined, WHEN it was actually checked, with a lead line.
I can't think of any way that the pilot boat could legitimately determine where the "deep" water actually was, and how they could possibly guide boats into that channel effectively.



They have stated that they have procured a depth sounder for the panga pilot boat, but without a chartplotter to plot the actual depths observed, in my opinion, just a depth sounder, while a tiny step in the right direction is of limited value.

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Scot - Bill said they have purchased a Garmin depth sounder that actually looks like it could have much of the bottom scanning needed.......except my hunch is it requires a transducer that is likely very expensive versus the included transom hung transducer. But that's only a guess.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/739042

I have no idea how you accurately map a bar with a lead line. Realize the bar is a half mile out from the channel opening so you're floating in the middle of nowhere so remembering where the deepest part is would be a memory meme far beyond my abilities.

One question that hasn't been asked is the channel is 12 feet deep. When? At the highest tide? MLLW which is traditional? Having viewed the Google Earth history, I sincerely doubt the 12 foot is consistent if it even exists. Given the number of boats that have recently broached or touched bottom, guessing this is not a 12-foot year.

At the very least, folks have to take more responsibility for a safe crossing. I would have left it to Bill and the pilot which obviously would have been a mistake. I probably would have gotten lucky but maybe not.

Here's my best thinking knowing what I now know

1. I am a displacement speed boat and cannot match the speed of rolling waves. If they break, I am at serious risk of broach. Kevin's Bayliner 4788 likely has the speed to ride a wave in so my decision might (might....) be different in his boat.

2. Panga drivers have no idea what it's like to drive a large slow vessel. Even Bill, reportedly an ex cruiser, has likely become complacent. According to accounts of VHF chatter during the event and his 4 incidents of 585 crossings' stat, what's an incident to him far exceeds my threshold for "incident." In short, you cannot outsource risk.

3. You have to really, really study tides. Not enough to just show up at high tide, but you need to pick a day with higher high tides.

4. Going in means coming out eventually. You simply must have the time to wait it out to avoid making a mistake.

5. Speaking of giving your self time, one of the issues with BDS and going in is anyone approaching from the north do so from Chiapas which is over 200 nms away. The urge to listen to the pilot/Bill and believe them must be overwhelming when a slip and cold beer with swimming pool is just 10 mins away and the alternative is not great. You simply must not put yourself in that type of decision matrix if you can at all help it. I don't know Mark on Rum Truffle, but he was clearly hesitant about going in and he went anyway, a decision I'm sure he regrets more than any other in his life. He didn't have great alternatives.

Bottom line is BDS is not for me. But the lessons learned are deeper than that.

Good discussion.

Peter

no mention of waypoints being used to duplicate a successful entry with same track exit.

I had a civilian conservation officer from Helen Reef come out in a Jon boat to the ship (205-feet long, 14-foot draft, single screw salvage tug) to tell me it was ok to enter the atoll astern of him. Having neither detailed chart nor confidence in his experience running ships, I declined. That was not the only time that trip through the then-Trust Territories of the Caroline Islands I declined to enter so-called channels. I had 69 Sailors aboard to deliver safely home to their loved ones, and this was a decade before the first GPS satellite soared into the heavens. Having conned ships into harbors all over the world and through both Suez and Panama Canals, I will say that for the most part pilots were not required except to interpret to me some of what is going on above the surface of the water to help avoid collisions and to run the tugs to nudge us into our berth (also usually not needed). I can actually not remember a time when a pilot ever told me to steer a particular course to avoid shoal waters in his port because we had updated charts and had laid down a safe course on our paper charts. When it came to the more remote locations like Helen Reef (and apparently Bahia Del Sol), I realized the "pilot" was no real pilot at all, and I never placed the ship in a no-safe-retreat position. BDS sounds like a do-it-or-die run with no safe abort once committed. Hopefully, the word is out and it gets a pass except on exceedingly rare ocassions when there is little to no swell.

In Baja there is a bar "Boca de Solidad" about 30 miles north of Mag Bay. You can enter Mag Bay and travel up a pretty, narrow channel to the Boca then enter back in the Pacific. We anchored on the inside of the Boca and then climbed a hill that gave a good shot of the channel. Watched a shrimper go out so we had a handle on it. Channel made an almost 90 degree turn to the south. Next morning we had no issues exiting. Next year we did the same thing but could not even find the channel. Very nervous about trying it when a Sardine boat came out to exit. We quickly upped anchor and followed him out. Channel now was straight out. There is no way I would ever attempt to enter the Boca from the sea side. No way to tell where the channel is. But it's a great trip going north avoiding a little bit of north wind on the nose. Worse case you can always back track to Mag BAy to go north.

Pilot? Mooncusser where I'm from.

Best not underrate local knowledge. Someone who really knows a bar could know from experience (hopefully not grounding) that,for example,a week of south easterly will shift the channel in "X" direction. But confirmation with a good sounder is a sound idea.
The entrance to Lake Macquarie from the NSW(State) coast is via a narrow opening span in a traffic bridge. Beneath it and the approach from either side,is an ever shifting bar in a not very deep channel. I`ve never been through it but understand constant local surveillance and buoy adjustments apply, and even then there are bumps.

BTW, talking of pilotage, I read recently that the Evergreen "Whatever" which blocked Suez canal for weeks was under pilot control when it grounded.

I was bringing a boat out of Deltaville VA. We had a local electronics tech on board to set up some new equipment that needed to be done underway. We got about 1/2 way out of the channel when we ran aground on a sandy bottom. I was shocked and said "I'm in the middle of the channel." The local tech replied "That doesn't matter, it changes all the time."

We crossed this bar last year in February 23, all I can say is wait for the right weather and go only at high tide. Bill was great and did an amazing job for us. If it wasn’t for them there would be many more sunken boats including mine.

Even in the US I think there are 3 different kinds of inlets. 2 can be plagued with breaking waves, the third is usually monitored and dredged frequently enough to avoid dangerous breaking waves. There could be other types, but don't come to mind this morning.

In layman's terms....there is charted with controlling/reported depth, marked with no controlling/marked for best depth, and unmarked inlets.

I used to almost daily run a marked but no controlling/marked for best depth. For many years the marked channel was by far not the best way to get in and out of the inlet. I am not sure that ANY commercial operator that commonly used the inlet followed the buoys at the outer channel. The USCG Aids to Navagation people even asked me should they switched the buoys. I said yes.... but 15 years ago I guess the inertia to change was great enough and the "marks" marked a channel of similar depth to just coming straight in, it had a bad dogleg that put you in danger of a broach shouls a large wave catch you in a bad spot.

For those that remember the dogleg in old, old Barnegat Inlet in NJ and it having about the worst reputation along the east coast for supposedly an all weather inlet (both marks and protective jetties).... the inlet I am describing (Townsends Inlet, NJ) would present the same broaching problem. Townsends inlet is safely used by thousands of boaters each summer because they have the local knowledge to ignore the buoys and come straight in/out of the inlet.

I read cruising guides and lots of posts by cruisers that declare the inlet too dangerous to use. But except for a tricky drawbridge (not different than may other places), it really is an easy inlet with a 30 second local knowledge brief.

The moral of the story is that local knowledge from the right skippers often trumps all the other info out there. It how you get it and from whom you get it and whether it is a consensus of good info or not.

Just following someone isn't always the best course of action either. The first boat could have made it by inches either in depth or track that the second boat may find impossible to mimic exactly. Also just one abnormal wave can be a big difference too.

22 years ago we were persuaded to enter BDS in our 48ft sailboat with 7 ft draft. There was a concerted effort to convince folks to come in to the resort there and the risks were grossly understated. Our entrance was pretty nerve racking, ran parallel to the beach then a couple of jogs to stay in deep water. No way I could have done it with out a pilot.

When it came time to leave the main guy was busy so sent out a young guy to lead us and another boat out. He took us straight out the channel. We hit bottom a couple times and the other boat took a breaker over the bow. The kid didn't have a clue about what we needed.

I feel like going in was one of the dumber things I've done. I put my boat in someones hands that I didn't know and that later showed a serious lack of responsibility for getting us out.

It was my mistake to trust them and I'm sorry that nothing has changed there.

I would never enter there again.

esheufelt said:

22 years ago we were persuaded to enter BDS in our 48ft sailboat with 7 ft draft. There was a concerted effort to convince folks to come in to the resort there and the risks were grossly understated. Our entrance was pretty nerve racking, ran parallel to the beach then a couple of jogs to stay in deep water. No way I could have done it with out a pilot.

When it came time to leave the main guy was busy so sent out a young guy to lead us and another boat out. He took us straight out the channel. We hit bottom a couple times and the other boat took a breaker over the bow. The kid didn't have a clue about what we needed.

I feel like going in was one of the dumber things I've done. I put my boat in someones hands that I didn't know and that later showed a serious lack of responsibility for getting us out.

It was my mistake to trust them and I'm sorry that nothing has changed there.

I would never enter there again.

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Exactly! There is no need to risk your boat.

It seems to me from all the information that the owner of the local resort wants cruisers to come in, use the facilities, spend money.

This is economically driven.

It is a shame to come all that way, only to risk your boat on a place you didn't need to visit anyway.

We enjoyed our (longer than planned) stay in Bahia del Sol, but while there, the knowledge that we would eventually have to depart loomed over us. As stated above, we sustained no damage, except to our nerves, but after we crossed the bar inbound with no damage, telling us to just follow the "channel" in was irresponsible, as there was no channel marked, no bouys, no markers, nothing, just a wide expanse of shallow water between two spits of sand. We picked the middle, and didn't hit anything, but we honestly had NO IDEA where the "channel" was, or where any shoals might have been. That what a pilot should have been for. We went really slow, and didn't go aground.

On exit, having the guide boat move to the side, and fall back behind us because it was too rough "up there", and then when we finally were able to communicate via VHF, to tell us "We can't see the waves from back here, but if you see the way clear, JUST GO FOR IT!" was the height of irresponsibility. We had absolutely no idea where the mythical "Channel through the bar" was, didn't know where the shoal water was, but at that point, we were committed, and I thank God we made it out with less than 18" under our keel.

Been across the bar at BDS, Done that. With the knowledge we now have, we would never do it again. That's our personal opinion. It's up to each and every boat owner to decide what their risk tolerance is, but for us, crossing that bar again, with the current safety measures in effect (or not) exceeds our risk tolerance, and we would not recommend it to anyone. YMMV

Short (belated) update on our friends from the Panama Posse who were caught behind the bar at Bahia del Sol after the broaching of SV Windid and catastrophic loss of Rum Truffle while attempting to cross the bar inbound under the guidance of the pilot boat. To the best of our knowledge, all the Panama Posse boats, and several others as well, have all successfully crossed the bar outbound and have moved on to Nicaragua, and Costa Rica, Southbound. Kudo's to them.

How the entire Rum Truffle saga will play out with Bahia del Sol's cruiser trade still remains to be seen, but from our perspective, given all we now know about past issues that were, shall we say, never brought to the forefront in order for people to conduct informed risk assessments, and given the minimal actions actually taken/implemented to manage the risks in order to prevent a repeat of the Windid/Rum Truffle fiasco/loss, we personally would chose not to enter into Bahia del Sol again. As always, each and every crew must decide how risk adverse they are, but for us, the potential danger of loss of vessel/loss of life far outweighs the benefits of the entry.