IG teak decks

Marin said:

How are the deck seams? .....

Click to expand...

Bad, especially on the foredeck, fair on the side decks under a degree of cover, reasonable in the covered cockpit (we are a Europa). I started planning re-caulking, a major job in itself, a lot of work is needed on screws and plugs where the teak has thinned too, risk is the problem remains if goop under the planks has failed as I suspect,pretty sure water gets under the planks from the outer edge where water should drain down aft (spilt Deks Olje certainly did) ,so decided to bite the bullet and go to fibreglass decks, adding glued teak on the fibreglass if cost permits, for a certain fix. BruceK

On a re-check, the exposed edge around the lazarette opening for the heavy hatch doors looks like foam and not like wood. The hatch hinge is screwed to the teak planks (not the core). While gluing plugs into the thin teak where the screw holes had failed a while back, I thought it was an odd place to screw to, but it is consistent with not being able to screw to a foam core. I emailed Mark Halvorsen, no response yet, hope to see him at the Sydney BoatShow next week,(also Rex from Sarca Anchors).
I`ve got whatever core I`ve got, but interesting no one knows of this form of deck on IGs, me included. Thanks to everyone who responded,especially JohnP with an actual core photo, and AndyG with his deck experience. BruceK

The full-length bronze hinges on our lazarette hatches are screwed to the teak planks on either side of the hatch opening too. The screws are actually quie short but we've never had a problem with the security of the hinges.

BruceK said:

On a re-check, the exposed edge around the lazarette opening for the heavy hatch doors looks like foam and not like wood. The hatch hinge is screwed to the teak planks (not the core). While gluing plugs into the thin teak where the screw holes had failed a while back, I thought it was an odd place to screw to, but it is consistent with not being able to screw to a foam core. I emailed Mark Halvorsen, no response yet, hope to see him at the Sydney BoatShow next week,(also Rex from Sarca Anchors).
I`ve got whatever core I`ve got, but interesting no one knows of this form of deck on IGs, me included. Thanks to everyone who responded,especially JohnP with an actual core photo, and AndyG with his deck experience. BruceK

Click to expand...

Bruce, I am amazed there is an exposed edge around your Lazarette hatch. You would think if the core was foam they would have put some teak around the opening first so the core did not show.

By 1983 the edge of the hatch opening below the deck planking is solid fiberglass with a built in gutter system that drains thru the transom.

The hardwood blocks in my sample are well soaked with resin and spaces between are filled, you can see this in the image.

Speaking of Lazarettes mine was a very damp and unpleasant place till I got in the habit of proping the hatch up with a piece of wood when we leave the boat. I think mine has little or no ventilation.

JohnP

JohnP said:

Speaking of Lazarettes mine was a very damp and unpleasant place till I got in the habit of proping the hatch up with a piece of wood when we leave the boat. I think mine has little or no ventilation.

JohnP

Click to expand...

Ours is a mold farm. Trying to figure out where to rig one of those solar powered vents to keep the moisture down in there.

dwhatty said:

Ours is a mold farm. Trying to figure out where to rig one of those solar powered vents to keep the moisture down in there.

Click to expand...

Just propping one end of the hatch up two inches when you leave the boat can make all the difference in world.

Very little rain comes in due to the gutter system around the opening.

Try it. JohnP

Thanks guys. Spoke to the shipwright today, he`s sure its a foam sandwich deck and thinks the cost of new teak glued on after filling all the screw holes won`t be all that much more than building fibreglass decks,which will involve changing a few things, like the lazarette door hinge attachment. If the deck is sound he could be right, and I keep the look of the boat.He has concerns about using kiln dried teak which may continue to dry/shrink after laying, reckons he has a source who ages it further after importing, before selling it.Sounds like aging red wine!
My lazarette drains are teak, same as my previous boat, strange making drains out of wood. The center cross support/drain is rotted a little at the ends so water leaks in, fortunately no mould so far, I`ll rebuild the ends so they fit snugly again and leak a bit less. BruceK

JohnP said:

Speaking of Lazarettes mine was a very damp and unpleasant place till I got in the habit of proping the hatch up with a piece of wood when we leave the boat. I think mine has little or no ventilation.

JohnP

Click to expand...

I assume you have an emergency tiller so I assume there is a deck plate over the lazarette that you would remove in order to use it. You can either buy a vent to replace the deck plate when you are not using the boat, or if you can't find a vent to properly fit the deck plate rim you can buy a whole new rim with a plate and vent included. Since we have a twin the deck plate for the emergency tiller is in the starboard lazarette hatch. We bought a pair of new deck plate assemblies that inlcluded a small cowl vent along with the plate and installed one where the original plate had been in the starboard hatch and put the new one in the port hatch.

When we use the boat we install the flat plates, when we aren't using the boat we install the cowl vents and aim them to get a nice crossflow of air down and through and up out of the lazarette. As a result the lazarette stays dry, odor free, and mold and mildew free.

If you don't want to install a second deck plate/vent even the one for the emergency tiller will help ventilate the space underneat

In a dry climate propping open a deck hatch would be okay but up here it would result in a whole lot of rainwater getting into the lazarette and thus into other parts of the bilge.

As it's not unknown for mice and rats to get on boats out in the islands and even in the marinas, particularly those with commercial fishing fleets and fish processors in or near them, we jam a piece of hardware cloth into the cowl vents to prevent any rodents from getting in. (Ask Carey what a rat can do to the inside of a boat if it gets in and can't get out.)

Marin said:

I assume you have an emergency tiller so I assume there is a deck plate over the lazarette that you would remove in order to use it.

Click to expand...

Yes to the emergency tiller, no to a deck plate opening for it, on my 1981 IG36.I`ve not used it(except to re-varnish the magnificent teak handle and re-paint the metal tube), I`d have to open the lazarette hatch covers to fit and use it; there could be times you wouldn`t want to do that. You GB owners are fortunate; I readily see how the tiller hatch could double as a vent. BruceK

When I replaced my decks I did away with the emergency tiller, I could not for the life of me understand how with an aft cabin set up the emergency tiller could work, I would always rely on the two engine set up in that situation.................I know, I know, what if you lose an engine as well as the steering, well by then I would be so far up the creek without the proverbial paddle I would probably be aground!

Bruce if you are going to the boat show, would you like to meet up for a beer, I usually go down to have a look at whats new.

The tiller will connect to either one of our rudders but the original access plate was in the starboard lazarette hatch cover. This puts it off to the side of the centerline of the boat, and since the cabin structure on a GB Classic (tri cabin) is not full width it's actually pretty easy to stand in a spot that lets you work the tiller and see down the starboard deck. I've never tried steering with the tiller but when we had it out of the lazarette the other week during our plumbing refit I fitted it to the rudder and tried out the steering "position." I think it would work fairly well.

I agree that it makes more sense to simply use the two engines to control direction and that is what we'd do. But the tiller could be quite useful is in a docking or something when you needed asymetrical thrust and the rudders hard over one way or the other to put the boat where you wanted it. We do this a lot in a variety of maneuvering or docking situations.

In the case of a steering system failure my wife, who generally does the dock line bit so is on deck anyway, could operate the rudders while I ran the shifters. Communication would be easy since we'd both be on the same side of the boat so we would just talk down the length of the starboard deck.

Marin, I do have the emergency tiller but the hatch has to be open to use it.

Your set up makes more sense, and a vent with a deck cap is now on the to do list.

Like to get a vintage one--like looking for boatiques at flea markets. And ebay.

JohnP

If one does install one or two deck plate/vent units in their aft hatches something to be aware is the trip factor, particularly with the low ones. Very easy to snag a foot or shoe on one. We don't remove the vents when we're just working on or staying on the boat in its home slip. So I painted the vents OSHA yellow which makes a big difference to seeing them in our peripheral vision when moving around the aft deck. The deck plates we install when we're using the boat are white like the rims.

At the Sydney BoatShow, I asked Mark Halvorsen (exhibiting a Selene (?62) the second year running), if any IGs built around 1981 had foam sandwich decks. Politely, Mark said he was still at school in 1981,his first visit to the China factory was 1988, he`d expect wood sandwich but it was possible. He also said (I think) the deck top fibreglass layer, cabin sides, & bulwarks were all moulded in one piece before put onto the hull.
When the teak comes up we`ll find out for sure;that and condition will help decide whether to glue on fresh teak or go for a fibreglass finish.
The rest of my BoatShow visit involved buying a No.6 (22kg) Super Sarca from Rex of Anchor Right who sends his regards, avoiding Riviera and Maritimo displays, checking a Beneteau Swift Trawler 44, not excited, quite excited by an Alaska 46 ($800K), a beautiful modern "trawler like" set out, stunning stainless steel entry doors and frames sides and back, but with a hull described as"warped-plane" design capable of 25kts courtesy of two 480hp Cummins QSBs (gulp!,they certainly would). I`d wish for a semi displacement hull, less engine, less price, and a lottery win,but it`s a nice boat, I`ve seen a 42 before, just as nice. A lot of them just get run at hull speed,now there`s a hint Mr. Alaska. BruceK

Everytime, I go to a Boat Show I come away with the same conclusion--I Have to hit the Lottery to get a brand new boat!

JohnP

sigh! after tapping a reply out, very slowly and carefully on my I phone, only to hit the wrong button to send, and watching it disapear into cyberspace.....again, I think I will give up till I have managed to get myself sorted out with a new laptop etc.
Point form then
1/Liked the Flemming 55 much more than the Selene,loved the lines on the 55, almost femine compared to the Selene. New Flemming being launched shortly, good deals on 55's as owners upgrade.eg 5 year old 55' out of NZ <$1M
2/ Liked the new Slovenian boat, dual power, electric <5 knots, nice lines, can't remember the name.European boat of the year
3/ Liked the Walker Bay inflatable tandem kayak.
4/ Bruce, your IG build date is slightly later than mine, know an IG with a build date slightly newer than yours, both mine and his had wood block cores.Perhaps your foam core is a result of some deck work done by a PO.

Looking forward to my new laptop.

Andy G said:

sigh! after tapping a reply out on my I phone....I
know an IG with a build date slightly newer than yours, both mine and his had wood block cores.Perhaps your foam core is a result of some deck work done by a PO.

Click to expand...

Roll on the new laptop (or maybe an Ipad??)
I`m waiting a quote from another shipwright who inspected yesterday;he found foam around the lazarette, wonders if it is just sealing the end wood. Knowing the boat I confidently exclude deck repair by PO.
The BoatShow:Inspecting the Fleming 55 would have caused outright envy, the Alaska was tough enough, it`s like an original Halvo brought right up to date; the 46 sedan weighs 19 tons dry, it`s a solid thing. I think Bill Buckle (Toyota,etc) owns the displayed Fleming. Was the solar power boat a Greenline?
Winter in Sydney is lifting,Spring is coming. If Saturday`s southerly weakens as predicted, Sunday holed up from a light westerly might be nice. BruceK

Finally a proper keyboard to type with.

Yes I think the boat was a Greenline, interesting concept.

Bruce I think you are right about the Flemming belonging to Bill Buckle, it is definitely moored up here in Pittwater.

Nothing new to add just trying out the laptop.

Quote 2 for my decks = Quote 1,both quite fairly exclude what`s found under the teak. I`m reluctant, due to cost (?8K over nonskid), to replace the teak. Shipwrights,no doubt with an eye to a $, say I`ll reduce the value of the boat if I don`t replace it. Its a 30y.o. boat,anyone think it really matters?
The written quote (one is verbal, I don`t like it but need him to respray the transom which bubbled after he sprayed it last year) is to remove the teak, countersink and epoxy the screw-holes,add a fibreglass layer;then lay glued teak,or for a nonskid finish, another layer of fibreglass and paint it.Sounds a fair plan to me.
Andy,a friend crewed for Bill Buckle, the Fleming`s owner, on an offshore racing yacht and helped bring the Fleming down from Qld after he shifted sail>power.A lovely trawler for post Lotto win dreams. BruceK

The value reduction thing is hard to judge. It depends on the type of people who would be inclined to buy your boat.

With a Grand Banks it's a little easier to determine because many GB owners or buyers feel the teak deck is a major contributor to the appeal of the boat and wouldn't want one without it. I have seen a few GBs at the brokerage in our marina over the years that had had the teak removed and fiberglass and nonskid put in it's place. The boats took forever to sell and the lead broker told me that the lack of a teak deck was partly the reason. in one case, the boat finally sold when the owner dropped the price by a large percentage of what it would cost to install new teak decking.

That said, there are buyers who find the lack of a teak deck a benefit even with GBs.

As for other brands of boats that were built with teak decks, I don't know how much the teak adds to their appeal, particularly in the used boat market. For some boats the removal of the teak and the proper application of a fiberglass/nonskid deck probably increases the value of the boat to potential buyers.

My guess is that in the case of a 30 year old boat that has a failing teak deck, its removal and the application of a fiberglass/nonskid deck would not reduce the appeal of the boat to potential buyers for that age of boat. While installing a new teak deck would certainly be nice, both for you and a potential buyer, I very much doubt you would see the high cost of the new teak reflected in the selling price buyers would be willing to pay.

So unless you siimply really like a teak deck, which I and my wife do, I would think that removing the old teak and replacing it with a well-done fiberglass deck might be the way to go in this case.

The price differential of the $8K, teak over glass, is about the same cost differential I was quoted for my deck.

I agree with Marin, to some people not having a teak deck is a plus, irrespective of of the cost. I would venture that your decision should be based on what you would prefer, balanced with what you can afford, worry about potential resale issues when you are selling the boat.

One thing though, I have seen some very good glass jobs and some shockers, and a bad job may well cost you a sale.

Bruce, further to Bill Buckle, we had a car show at the club a month ago he came along and brought one of the last original 'Buckle' sport cars he built in the early 70's.

FWIW he is a picture of a 1949 Willies Jeep Traveller that was next to the Buckle. I was offered it for $15K, quite tempted.(Hope this is not hijacking the thread too much)

Originally ordered the Coot with a teak-deck option (laid over the steel deck), but I eliminated it due to input received from this forum. Why pay more for hotter decks and maintenance headache? With the money saved, I splurged on a very expensive air-horn setup.

markpierce said:

Originally ordered the Coot with a teak-deck option (laid over the steel deck), but I eliminated it due to input received from this forum.With the money saved, I splurged on a very expensive air-horn setup.

Click to expand...

Good decision markpierce. I think I`ve heard those air-horns,right across the Pacific.
I`m told the cost of a factory type cross hatched non skid surface on a teak deck renovation falls somewhere between ordinary non skid and teak, non skid panels get fabricated in the workshop and glued to the repaired f/g deck surface. At that, I`d opt for teak.
Shipwrights are afraid of quoting for fear the old teak is hard to get off,and understandably exclude what rot lies under the teak. One won`t (one did) provide a written estimate, yet is short of work.
Andy,I remember Bill Buckle racing the eponymous fibreglass Buckle coupe, maybe based on Holden (GM) mechanicals. Amazed one survives. BruceK

IG 32 Teak Deck drainage by aft scuppers

JohnP said:

Andy,* When you removed your teak decks, was the hardwood block core*bad in large areas or just around the filler pipes and deck fittings?* How much of the core was compromised by water leakage?* When I installed new fillers for my fuel tanks I cut new holes thru the deck and found a fairly substantial glass laminate above and below the core.* Was the deck stiff enough without the teak or did you have to add more layers of glass?* Also did the old sealant holding the teak seem be intact? Would the deck remain in place without the screws?* Just wondering.* John P

John P
IG 32 #25
Toms River NJ

Click to expand...

John,
I recently bought a 1981 IG 32' out of NY and it was also named Adagio. I am new to the boat and will be reseaming the decks with caulk in the off-season. Following rain, I noticed that water squeezes out of the seams where the last teak trim board wraps around the aft teak deck by the scuppers and doesn't dry out until several days later. I have no visible leakage in the laz or main engine compartment from the decks. How would you suggest I repair this problem? When I reseam the decks, should I also put a bead of caulk around the entire edge of the teak deck between the teak and the fiberglass? It seams to me that teak trim board that wraps around the aft deck by the scuppers sees the most water since this is the path taken by the water to the scuppers. How would you prevent the water from getting under the teak deck at this location? Would removing and rebedding the teak trim board be the answer? I don't want to trap water in and cause a bigger problem. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

We've redone a number of seams on our deck. It's pretty easy but it can be time consuming and it has to be done right or the repair won't last.

1 The deck planks need to be completely dry before you attempt to repair the seams. I mean completely dry.

2. Reef out the old seam sealant.

3. Sand the inside of the grove to remove all traces of the old sealant and smooth the groove sides and bottom.

4. Tape off the seams to keep the new sealant off the surrounding planks.

5. Clean the groove with acetone to remove the surface oil that's natural to the teak.

6. Lay bond-breaking tape in the bottom of the groove. We use 3M automotive striping tape. Some people say this isn't necessary but if you don't the new sealant will adhere to the bottom of the groove which reduces its ability to flex with the plank movement and seam separation from one side or the other of the groove will occur sooner rather than later.

7. Apply the new sealant with a caulking gun. The only caulking compound on the planet worth using is TDS from Teak Decking Systems. It's what companies like Grand Banks, Fleming, etc. use on their decks at the factory.

8. Force the compound into the groove and smooth it level with a putty knife or other flat tool. I use the plastic paddles that our (Boeing) painters use to seal the edges of masking tape when masking out the airline livery on the plane's base coat.

9. Remove the tape masking the grooves. If you wait for the caulking to cure it will be difficult to get the tape up and pulling it up may damage the adhesion of the sealant to the sides of the groove.

10. Let the new seams cure completely before walking on them. We generally give it a week although TDS is probably cured sufficiently in less time than that.

Some shipwrights I have talked to don't tape off the grooves but simply apply the sealant, smooth it, let it cure, and then sand the excess off the planks. This makes for a little less exacting work but I don't like the idea of sanding on a teak deck any more than one has to. Most of the shipwrights I've talked to about this process prefer to tape the seams.

If the problem is that one side of a seam has pulled away from the inside of the groove there is a method of repair that does not involve removing the old sealant. The separated side of the seam is cut away at a 45 degree angle and new sealant is applied. I've done this a few times, but have found that iif the sealant has separated from one side of the groove the chances are its adhesion to the other side is compromised, too, so we prefer to replace the entire section of seam.

Marin,
Thanks for the advise. What do you think about putting a bead of TDS seam sealant or other type of caulk around the entire edge of the teak deck between the teak deck and the fiberglass? My concern is water seeping in around the edges of the teak deck. Not sure if the bedding is compromised where the last teak trim board wraps around the aft teak deck by the scuppers or if water is simply getting into the bad seams in this area. I am leary of trying to remove and rebed any of the teak for fear of breaking it in the event some areas still have adhesion. Any suggestions? Also can you recommend where to purchase replacement teak bungs? Are they a standard diameter for all teak decks or do they vary with boat manufacturer?
Thanks

Our boat has a groove between the outermost deck planks and the fiberglass bulwarks and this is treated the same as the grooves between the planks themselves. Unlike some GBs, our boat was not fitted with a quarter-round trim piece between the edges of the deck and bulwarks and cabin sides, which is a good thing in my view.

Deck plugs are available at any decent marine supply store. What size were used may vary by boat manufacturer but the most common size seems to be 3/8." The deck screws in a GB are #8. Reseating or replacing a deck screw is properly done with a drill tool I can never remember the name of but it's a combination drill bit, countersink, and borer. The drill bit slides though the center of the countersink]borer and is locked in place with a setscrew so you can set the drill for the correct length of the deck screw. Someone here can probably provide the right name for the tool--- they're available at any good hardware store.

Deck plugs should be inserted with their grain aligned with the grain in the planks, which is to say fore and aft. I always dip the tip of a deck screw in a sealant like Lifecaulk (the only thing I've ever found Lifecaulk to be good for) before seating it. I was taught this by the shipwright who regrooved and reseamed our main deck a number of years ago. He did it because he said it helped prevent moisture that got under the planks from migrating down alongside the screws into the wood subdeck core. Don't know if it does but the theory makes sense so I do it.

This is a seven year old photo and our deck does not always look like this--- it had just been washed the day before. But it's the only shot I have that shows the seam between the outermost planks and the bulwark.

Marin,
Thanks for the information. Much appreciated. Other than some seam sealing issues my teak decks are in good condition and I'd like to keep them that way.
Frank

There is a ton of often very detailed information on the care and feeding of teak decks on the Grand Banks owners forum Grand Banks Owner's Resources since almost all GBs from the first ones in 1966 on have them.

Doriana is with the shipwright, most of the teak is off already, the Sika is being removed before a clean up with a sander. There do not seem to be soft areas, it still sees the substrate is an unusual(for IG) fibreglass/foam/fibreglass sandwich, which may explain why it is not soft like rotted wood. The moisture meter goes off in a few areas, plan is to cut into the worst reading area to sample the core condition. I don`t want to repair substrate or anything else I don`t have to.
It is feasible to use a non skid finish on the foredeck to the deck step down (IGs vary,Andy`s Sarawana is different),and teak on the covered side walkways and cockpit. I saw a Banks 32 where the step down is beside the aft saloon bulkhead; non skid replaced teak except in the cockpit,which looked like the original teak.I`d do that but there is no convenient point for the change.