What our boats say about us

Maybe ... "We no Hab your Cat... stop calling..." or.. "It say "All you can eat... " it no mean forever""""!!!""""

refugio said:

No, a Selene versus a custom-order widebody Fleming with no side decks!

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Ahh.... Well then I guess I'd have to chose Mark's option of giving up boating and taking up some other pastime instead. Maybe horses. Always enjoyed being around horses. Selene's look like cartoon boats to me so they're not even an option.

Of course Tony Fleming's a pretty savvy guy even if he did steal (literally) American Marine's big and only copy of their manual on building high-quality fiberglass hulls when he left his job as AM yard manager to start his own boatbuilding venture. So says Howard Abbey, anyway, who wrote the manual for AM. So I would be surprised if Tony would compromise his outstanding interpretation of deFever's design to eliminate side decks. You never know, though......

ksanders said:

Its funny, but the "I wouldn't be caught dead in a Bayliner(or a Rinker, or a XXXX brand)" comments always come from folks online.

They Never come from folks that have actually been on one.

The comments I get from other people at the dock are quite a bit different.

A Trawler Forum member who owned a Sea dory at the time went aboard my old 2859 several years ago. His comment was "I better not show this to my wife, She'd love it."

People walking by on the dock invaribly say "great looking boat".

Here in the Pacific Northwest taking a walk down the dock is pretty much a Bayliner model tour. Far and away the most popular boats at the harbor are Bayliners in my neck of the woods. You see the range of boats.

Old ones that look like new boats. Newer ones that are neglected. Boats from the 80's, whose owners are still having fun on them (yes Bayliners can last just like other brands )

You know, I have NEVER knocked someone elses choice in boat. I think people that own boats, especially boats sitting in a permenant slip are a sort of community. We all are in the same boat so to speak.

At the same time I have spent many hours defending the larger Bayliner boats (I've owned 5 of them) to people online that for the most part either don't even own a boat, or have no direct knowledge of what they post about so passionately about.

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I am the original poster here.

A funny story. I was driving through Moore Haven on work about a year ago, and crossed over the Okeechobee Waterway, from the bridge you can see the Moore Haven town dock. I saw a boat tied up there that really appealed to me. So much so that I turned around, went back over the bridge and worked my way through the not so safe looking neighborhood by the dock so I could see it up close. It was a Bayliner. Maybe a 36' downeast style? I saw the same boat at West End Grand Bahama a few weeks ago. It looks like a nice boat. Clearly Bayliner has built some nice looking boats, yours included.

I never intended to insult Bayliners or even more so their owners. Heck, our closest cruising friends have a 40' Sea Ray. We don't hold it against them .

In fact my post was meant to be just the opposite...an introspective look at why I feel like I do about boats, and particularily how they look, and how we are judged (judge ourselves?) based on our boats. I think I have freely acknowledged that my feelings may be short sighted.

If I insulted you, please accept my humble apology.

With all that said, there are some reverse chine Bayliners, Rinkers, Cruisers etc. out there that I think are uglier than homemade sin. They are abhorrent to me, doesn't mean they have to be to you.

Dougcole said:

Heck, our closest cruising friends have a 40' Sea Ray. We don't hold it against them .

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You don't?!! I WOULD! Friends don't let friends drive sea rays....bayliners MAYBE, buy seriously we have GOT to draw the line somewhere!!!


Just kidding around obviously. For the record, I'm not offended whatsoever. I personally find it ironic I ended up with a bayliner though I always really liked the lines and design of their 45/47 pilothouse. Our 45 is definitely not an ocean crossing nordhavn or something but for what she is, the 45 or 47 truly is the best bang for the buck. The boat you saw was more than likely the 3888 sedan. They didn't make a 36 sedan but the 38 has pretty nice classic lines IMO:


But yet, there are some boats out there that even though it may offend some people, I personally find them too ugly to contemplate owning. As I tell many of my clients, life is too short to own an ugly boat!

While as a rule I don't like the cabin cruiser look, the Bayliner models like the one pictured above are very nice looking for that type of boat in my opinion. You trip over them up here, of course, as they're absolutely everywhere. But very nice boats in terms of aesthetics. Most of them seem to have Hino engines which have as many proponents as detractors.

The only specific negative comment I have heard about these boats is from our diesel shop which told me that on all or some of them it is virtually impossible to get round the outside of the engines if you have to do anything over there. As a result, they said, items on that side are often ignored by owners to the engines' detriment.

You can get chine conversion kits for the 88 series that turn the rounded chine into a hard chine. Not cheap as I recall but from the reviews I've read they perform as advertised, raising the stern/lowering the bow at speed and increasing the boat's efficiency.

My boats Butt ugly but oh well she was a shrimp boat in her former life and now redesigned and rebuilt for cruising. I am already looking at a fiberglass hull 40ft bare hull except the shafts and rudders. Had my local Yacht builder friend look at it and agreed that it would fit the bill for a aft cabin cruiser, I has a pretty good size keel and prop pockets, Boats are all great to me i love all the shapes and different designs. I was rafted up to a SeaRay last week with my center console, Nice boat for what they want to do with it. How ever i have learned that 12 MPH trip down the ICW in a boat is Nice you get to see the things that i was missing in my WellCraft with twin 8.1's going 40 MPH. So be it butt ugly or great boat i am of the thought enjoy your boat and Don't let the guy with the dock queen with a small reef growing on the bottom tell you how great his boat is if it's so great why is it sitting at the dock and not cruising !

Ruthless said:

haha does anyone remember the original question?

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Statistically speaking, my boat says I'm a sixty something retired ex sailor.





















I'm not.

Yea Spy i know what your saying my girlfriend says the only reason i keep my Center Console is my mid life issues ? She claims no one needs a boat that will run 70 MPH. I tell her its my need for speed that hurts no one and gets no tickets. And after about a mile at that speed i slow to a idle you can't drink a cool beverage at 70 !!!

I love boats. We love the water. Boats I/we purchase fit the following basic criteria (not necessarily in that order):

Livable Boats

1. Seaworthy, self contained, value priced, in good condition, and very functional (or can soon easily/inexpensively be made that way – I don’t appreciate never-ending projects. Linda and I are not dock birds – we cruise or, anchor out, or....
2. Roomy yet cozy and comfortable enough for two to four to fully relax and enjoy ourselves during short or longer times aboard (and, very cozy-comfortable for just two)
3. Twin screw
4. Fly bridge with lower helm too
5. Economical at just below hull speeds, higher speeds appreciated but not absolutely necessary
6. Little to no exterior wood needing maintenance
7. Plenty of wood finishes inside
8. Solid, thick, hand laid fiberglass hull/bottom/transom (no plywood glue-lam or foam/balsa filled cores... with dense-foam filled very thick fiberglass stringers (not wood filled stringers)
9. Correctly built superstructure and decks that have well fiberglassed exterior with non leaking windows
10. Very good access area with standing room for engines, genset and other equipment

Tow Behinds (runabout, speed boat, or fisher)

a. Seaworthy, comfortable, fast, and in good condition with value price
b. Outboards to be Johnson, or Evinrude, or Nissan, prefer 2-Cycle – No Mercury or Chrysler or others
c. Inboards gas with low hours, well maintained and plenty power
d. No outdrives

Besides that as well as other cut and dry stuff (“first things first - criteria”; all very important to me and wife on choosing/owning any boat)... every boat I/we buy needs to ignite my/our inner passion(s) in some unique way... it has to somehow speak to us and put us at ease. That could be its looks, its condition, its heritage, its feel during sea trial, or maybe even stories we’ve heard from close boating-friends. After carefully choosing a boat purchase per criteria listed above, as well as the “passion factor”; Yes... we do make love to each craft... because, it also makes love to us!

That's what we say about boats and they say "TO" (about) us!

Boats are... and... boating is... Fun!

markpierce said:

Marin's nightmare: having to choose between a Bruce anchor, forward-raked pilothouse windows, or going boatless.

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Actually Marin's nightmare is waking up on I-70 in the middle of Kansas driving a RV...

Dougcole said:

I am the original poster here.


I never intended to insult Bayliners or even more so their owners. Heck, our closest cruising friends have a 40' Sea Ray. We don't hold it against them .

.

If I insulted you, please accept my humble apology.

With all that said, there are some reverse chine Bayliners, Rinkers, Cruisers etc. out there that I think are uglier than homemade sin. They are abhorrent to me, doesn't mean they have to be to you.

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No, you didn't offend me, I actually enjoyed this thread quite a bit.

Everybody has their taste in boats, just like cars and planes. And, yes there are some "bleach bottle" boats that I do not think are very nautical looking as well. I hope their owners really enjoy them. They are probably fine boats, just not for me.

I do get a little defensive, and am a little sensitive to "bayliner bashing". Here's why.

Like many people that go to boating forums I am passionate about boats and boating. So much that I turn to online forums to engage in conversations about this hobby. My wife doesn't want to hear it. Friends and co workers that do not share the passion don't want to talk about boats. So here I am.

Like most people that own large boats I've made a lifestyle committment to my boating hobby. I've done well in life, but lets fact it, boating, especially a large boat will take your time, and your disposable income. So I've made this comittment, of my dollars and my time and chosen a boat to put it into over everything else out there I could do for a hobby.

Like many of us here I've owned allot of boats along the way. In my case they have all been Bayliner boats. I know their strengths, and you can beleive me, I know their weaknesses. Just like any other hands on person thats spent many years tinkering would.

Then, as I'm sharing my passion with other like minded people on a nice forum, out comes someone with statements that indicate the very thing I've chosen to invest my time and money in is junk, and I should have chosen XXX brand. That I should have known better because "everybody knows Bayliners have thin hulls, or subquality components, or just a ton of other things. Things that I know are just not true.

So I get a little defensive. I tend to try to bring to light the facts about the boats I've owned, and the things I've seen. I should probably not worry about the misinformation. But it gets to me. I'm not stupid. I did not make bad boat decisions... And I've been places and done things with my Bayliners in the wilds of Alaska that would suprise most people.

So, if I get defensive, and offend anybody, my humble apologies.

Giggitoni said:

Actually Marin's nightmare is waking up on I-70 in the middle of Kansas driving a RV...

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There it is.

Or waking up and finding his boat had morphed into a forward raked windscreener...like mine just did...but I kinda like it. Thanks again Healhustler...sorry Marin, but it's ok...it was only a dream...

I like it. Maybe they're not necessary for our little boats, but, to me the forward slanted windscreens not only look salty but a little bit bad a**.

Peter B said:

sorry Marin, but it's ok...it was only a dream...

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No problem. As to Healhustler's boat, the window treatment makes it look popeyed, the deer-in-the-headlights look. If I was a tug skipper and saw it coming toward me there is no way I could take it seriously so I'd just run over it.

Marin said:

If I was a tug skipper and saw it coming toward me there is no way I could take it seriously so I'd just run over it.

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A friend of mine who's one of the skippers on the Virginia V said that must by how the "kayak" got its name - that's the sound they make when he runs over them.

refugio said:

A friend of mine who's one of the skippers on the Virginia V said that must by how kayaks got their name - that's the sound they make when he runs over them.

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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

refugio said:

A friend of mine who's one of the skippers on the Virginia V said that must by how the "kayak" got its name - that's the sound they make when he runs over them.

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Coincidentally, it is based on the Eskimo name for the vessels: qajaq.

Dougcole said:

It was a Bayliner. Maybe a 36' downeast style? I saw the same boat at West End Grand Bahama a few weeks ago. It looks like a nice boat. Clearly Bayliner has built some nice looking boats...

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Indeed Bayliner has pioneered some of the major design points, in part by not being tied down by "tradition". They shoehorned the first sleeping "cabins" under a dinette (yes, I'm using that term very loosely!).

The 32xx and 38xx boats (like the one you likely saw) have been well loved by their owners and generally well taken care of (Bayliner 32xx)

The "4050 Bodega" was somewhat less successful (see if you can with this slideshow without blinking): Z 40 ft Bayliner 4050 Bodega :: Bayliner 4050 Bodega Slideshow slideshow by rickredshoes - Photobucket
All of the ones I've seen have looked like they were sinking at the bow!

But the 45/47/49 Motoryachts have spawned many immitators, like this Delta:
1992 Delta Boat Company DELTA 50 Power Boat For Sale -

And I've never had a Trophy, but people who've owned them have been happy and many of them have lived long lives, even when neglected.

If you can get a Trophy with a good engine they are very good fishing boats. In the discussion about a new waterless coolant in another thread there was a comment that this new (and expensive) coolant has properties that are of absolutley no value whatsoever in the kinds of diesels most of us have in our boats, so the only reason to get it is to make yourself feel good.

I think the same is true of the Trophy. Sure, you can spend a bazillion dollars on a Grady-White. And Grady-White's are really nice boats. But as long as you get a good brand of engine, a Trophy will do the same thing as a G-W. And what's more important, the fish don't give a rat's ass what kind of a boat you're in.

So if the objective is to go fishing, a Trophy is a far better value than a Grady-White. If the objective is to go fishing AND be able to tell people you have a Grady-White, then a Trophy just won't do it for you.

One of my best friends has a Trophy that he routinely takes out over the bar at Westport and brings home limts when the charters are coming home empty. Great boat, he took it up the Inside Passage to Alaska one year and its only 23 feet.

I say this toungue in cheek, but at least a bayliner knows who its parents are.... my Taiwan Trawler isnt really sure... ;-)

Blue Heron said:

I say this toungue in cheek, but at least a bayliner knows who its parents are.... my Taiwan Trawler isnt really sure... ;-)

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That is too funny!

refugio said:

Indeed Bayliner has pioneered some of the major design points, in part by not being tied down by "tradition". They shoehorned the first sleeping "cabins" under a dinette (yes, I'm using that term very loosely!).

The 32xx and 38xx boats (like the one you likely saw) have been well loved by their owners and generally well taken care of (Bayliner 32xx)

The "4050 Bodega" was somewhat less successful (see if you can with this slideshow without blinking): Z 40 ft Bayliner 4050 Bodega :: Bayliner 4050 Bodega Slideshow slideshow by rickredshoes - Photobucket
All of the ones I've seen have looked like they were sinking at the bow!

But the 45/47/49 Motoryachts have spawned many immitators, like this Delta:
1992 Delta Boat Company DELTA 50 Power Boat For Sale -

And I've never had a Trophy, but people who've owned them have been happy and many of them have lived long lives, even when neglected.

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I have never really been attracted to the Bodega models either, the ones I've seen just didn't turn my head.

Its funny, because the delta in your link has been for sale for some time, at least two seasons, with the asking price dropping by over $50K during that time.

That boat was on my list to at least go and check out on my next boat hunting trip to the Seattle area. I was iffy about the white washed interior, but I really liked the interior setup with the dual beds in the guest cabin.

I also liked the 3208 Cats, but they are the high HP TA version and have 1700 + hours on them. Thats not allot of hours but that engine pushing 435HP is at the edge of its performance envelope. Depending on how the boat has been run, and maintained, the engines could be close to end of life, or have allot of hours left in them.

Then we found our boat, a 4788 in need of repowering and it solved the engine issue questions, since I put new ones in.

On the smaller/newer Bayliner side... The Discovery 24 & 26 models are unique that there is nothing else like them on the market. The look OK, somewhat pudgy.

Badger said:

On the smaller/newer Bayliner side... The Discovery 24 & 26 models are unique that there is nothing else like them on the market. The look OK, somewhat pudgy.

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I'm not so much of a fan of the newer discovery series.

We've had both a 242, and the 2859 Bayliner.

In my opinion the 2859 is far and away the best 28' cabin cruiser ever built for the waters here in Alaska.

It is the perfect combination, fishing and cruising boat, for a family. Raised pilothouse with seating for 3-4, nice cabin with a real stateroom, and a large vee berth. Full head with shower, nice galley.