Carrying Dink On Roof.

Even a decent dory would be better than a trinka, etc....dories row well and carry a ton with increasing stability the more you put into it and can carry an outboard too.

I'm not saying I wouldn't mind a big pulling boat like a lifeguard boat that rows well and can carry a load to boot...not happening till I buy my 75 footer..

....but in small sizes...EVERYONE I know with real cruising experience ditches the cutsie tenders.

Marin said:

Not true, I think. Our wide, square Livingston actually rows very well. In fact we used it for a year this way with no complaints at all until we decided to put a motor on it. Not because it was hard to row but because after getting "caught" in a current one day while rowing to shore we realized that with the swift currents around here we should have a motor so if we did need to buck or cross a current we'd have the speed to do so. The motor is not large--- a Yamaha 4hp 4-stroke--- but it will move the Livingston fast enough to overcome the typical currents we are likely to encounter. So we powered the Livingston as a safety measure, not to overcome any sort of rowing difficulty.

Does it row as well as the Montgomery dinghy on the cabin top? Of course not. But it rows just fine for utility and shore work.

The GB36 we chartered before buying our own boat had an 8 or 9 foot RIB on the swimstep. It had a motor on a transom bracket but we never used it. The inflatable rowed just fine. I've never tried rowing a big one so perhaps they're a different story.

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All inflatables require a different rowing technique...a shorter choppier stroke than a long slow pull...ok settle down some of you...

Even the big ones will row OK ...but the really big ones do have a lot of windage to manage.

If I ever feel the need to have a vessel that is human powered to save my boat or my life...I'll have a small kayak to do the dirty work. The dink is the pickup truck of cruising and needs to be way more versitile than just rowable.

I bought my first Avon Redcrest in the early 80's & have had a couple more of different sizes since then. I've rowed them all alot & I never want to row one into a strong head wind. A real anchor to keep you from being blown away is necessary safety equipement for an inflatable. I'm normally not a fan of analogies but here's one, comparing rowing my 11' Avon to my 10' Bauer is like comparing running up hill to ice skating.

Carl Martin said:

I bought my first Avon Redcrest in the early 80's & have had a couple more of different sizes since then. I've rowed them all alot & I never want to row one into a strong head wind. A real anchor to keep you from being blown away is necessary safety equipement for an inflatable. I'm normally not a fan of analogies but here's one, comparing rowing my 11' Avon to my 10' Bauer is like comparing running up hill to ice skating.

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And I can stand on the side of an Avon Redcrest with an 8D battery in my arms and the dink doesn't even know it...what's your point?

That outboards are unreliable? Learn to keep them running so they don't fail when you need them. Can't row an Avon inflatable?...learn the technique it ain't that hard.

Ever fall out of a round bottomed dink when trying to pass an ear of corn to another boat? No???...well plenty of experienced cruisers have.

If you like rowing dinks great...like anchors there's lots of opinions and realities. Rowing is just ONE of many characteristics a dink may or may not have...but it isn't number one to many cruisers.

Having cruised many miles with a Redcrest, which was a great dinghy, I'd recommend having someone on the other side of the boat with maybe a generator or refrigerator to balance that out. Barring that I'd strongly recommend letting go of the battery when you hit bottom. Regarding the dangers of passing corn from one dinghy to another that is clearly an example of why it's so dangerous to eat & row at the same time.

Carl Martin said:

Having cruised many miles with a Redcrest, which was a great dinghy, I'd recommend having someone on the other side of the boat with maybe a generator or refrigerator to balance that out. Barring that I'd strongly recommend letting go of the battery when you hit bottom. Regarding the dangers of passing corn from one dinghy to another that is clearly an example of why it's so dangerous to eat & row at the same time.

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proving my point?

Trinka with "dinghy dogs":

Anyone remember the Pardeys?

Lin & Larry? They cruised forever in a 24' sailboat (eventually upgrading to a 30 footer), but apparently they themselves are quite tiny.

They cruised all over the world with a Fatty Knees & always espoused the importance of a dinghy that rows well. However, they eventually added something like the dinghy dogs to their row boat having succumbed to the realization that without them they would never be able to stand on the gunnel. It broke my heart.

Carl Martin said:

Anyone remember the Pardeys?

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For their first boat, a wooden, 24-foot cutter named Seraffyn, they carried a roundish-fiberglass-hulled, 6'8" Montgomery pram on the cabin roof. (Pictured on the book cover of Sailing in Seraffyn.)

Again and the point is?

One cruising couple on a limited boat and budget gets to call the shots on what's best?

If I cruise the world on a 150 foot mega yacht... my limits should be a 8-10 foot round bottom rowing dingy?

Please.......anyone who cruises with a big dog CERTAINLY will not place the slight advantage of rowing over stability...and stay dry...

Again.....I'll just state the obvious. A crusin' dingy is a pickup truck...if you pick one based on the 1 in a million chance that it's rowing qualities are gonna save your life over the 1000 other things a crusin' dingy does every day...well then by all means pick a purdy one...

markpierce said:

Trinka with "dinghy dogs":

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What the hell is that, Mark? Are you shopping for training wheels for your new dingy?

Psneeld, I ran out of gas on my grey balloon (love that line!) a couple weeks ago and had to row the Admiral against the wind and current. I tried to keep up all manly appearances and keep a quick, short stroke going as we sloooowly approached our boat. We finally got there just as I was losing my energy. (well hidden, of course.)

I am now considering twin engines on my dingy so this will not happen again in the future. Viva la outboard!!

markpierce said:

Regardless, the Trinka has a beautiful bottom.

Probably why it tows and rows well.

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Simply beautiful

Some appreciate boats for their utility
Still others feel the utility is the beauty
But there are some of us who find beauty IS the utility

It's what makes this forum interesting

ben2go said:

.... carrying a dink on the roof?....roughly 105lbs My boat ..with an 8'4" beam and the roof will be about 7' above the water line......105lbs will make that much difference in stability.
I think it will make a big difference in stability especially with an 8' beam. If you want to know for sure, find a 150 lb. person and have them sit on the roof when the waves are abeam. Tony B

considering.......can't install a davit system, because the upper I/O will be in the way.On most good days,the dink will be towed.
There are various styles of davits, if you haven't checked them all out, you might want to. Tony B

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On my old Catalina 30 sailboat it was easy. I used davits when just out playing. When I wanted to get somewhere specific, I would set the davits to centering and then tow the inflatable dink with the bow raised slightly and the points in the rear of the dink dragging in the water. It put very little weight on my stern and very little drag on my sailboat.
When I was travelling a distance or in rough weather, I used my halyard -rope from top of mast coming down that would normally raise my sail to load the dink on top of my coach roof in front of the boat. Very easy one man job. One hand pulled the rope and the other hand guided the dink.
In your case, you might want to figure out how to add a sailboat mast about 15 ft high with a boom to raise your dink from the water to the coach roof on the foredeck. It sure would come in handy for other lifting items. The boom can then be rotated aft and used as a steadying sail in rolling seas or at anchor.
My current boat, a Mainship 36 has chocks on the hard top over the sun deck. I put the dink up there in the slip so I dont have to pay for a larger slip. I have a small crane to lower it into the water at which point I will hang it from davits or drag like I did on my old sailboat while travelling.

FlyWright said:

What the hell is that, Mark? Are you shopping for training wheels for your new dingy?

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Al, wish it was so, but I'm still dinghy-less. I'm just imagining dinghies. So far, dinghies seem to be a pain, and haven't had the need for one.

markpierce said:

... I'm still dinghy-less. I'm just imagining dinghies. So far, dinghies seem to be a pain, and haven't had the need for one.

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If one's boating is made up of going from marina to marina, or at least dock to dock, there's not much need for a dinghy unless one likes to explore or fish or crab in one or wants one for emergencies. I think every cruising boat, even one that never gets far from a harbor, should have some means of getting off the boat in the event of a severe emergency, like a fire, collision, etc. SFO Bay is pretty cold so even though help is most likely not very far away you'd want to have something that would let you get out of the water.

So while you may not have any use for an actual dinghy, Mark, you might want to consider a liferaft of some sort. They have nice cannister-stowed, self-deploying rafts that you could mount on your aft cabin top, for example.

I have no idea of your interests but you've said you used to do a fair amount of sailing in years past. While a sailing dinghy isn't very user-friendly as a utility shoreboat they can be a hell of a lot of fun to sail around in. The fiberglass and teak lapstrake Montgomery 7-11 sailing dinghy that came with our boat is lots of fun to sail. It has to be launched and recovered with the mast and boom which takes a bit of time but once it's in the water it makes for a fun afternoon's sailing. So perhaps something like that would be an enjoyable addition to your boat.

Marin, do you carry/wear parachutes when you fly?

The vast majority of boats in the Bay Area don't carry/trail dinghies. The frequent exceptions are those going to the Delta.



My outings so far have been day trips and over-a-night anchorings.

I like the idea of rowing the dinghy. Don't feel comfortable sailing unless there is a ballasted keel (like my Dad's former sailboat where the two-ton keel represented half of the boat's total weight).

Silly Coot...rental airplanes don't come with parachutes.

I agree with you, Mark. Even in the Bay, you're hardly ever more than a 1/2 mile from the shore. In the delta, it's a matter of yards to the nearest tule island or levee.

If I decide to upgrade my dingy, maybe I'll be able to make you an offer you can't refuse on my grey balloon, Achilles LEX-96 (with oars)!

Doubt most people could swim a half mile in the cold waters here without succumbing to hypothermia. Need to rely on others for rescue, so a radio is important. Since much of the SF estuary is shallow, one survival technique would be to climb the Coot's mast, like in the boat Orca-versus-the-shark movie (Jaws). Remember seeing the top of the mast of a sailboat sunk in San Pablo Bay on the westward return of the SF-Vallejo race in the 1960s.

markpierce said:

Marin, do you carry/wear parachutes when you fly?

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Only when I fly an aerobatic plane. There have been times when we've filmed on a very early flight of a new Boeing model and while we did not wear parachutes there was one for each of us on board. And when we fly in a chase plane (T-33 or T-38) we have to wear one.

My outings so far have been day trips and over-a-night

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Well, I suppose an emergency on that lake you guys cruise on down there won't amount to much and like FlyWright said you're never more than 1/2 mile from shore. I suppose one might be able to swim that far but as I recall the water in the Bay is pretty cold. So you might want to read up a bit on hypothermia and what it can do to your ability to function before you decide that swimming is your ticket to safety.

But I guess in the ditches between the dykes--- sorry, dikes--- you can just wade to shore if something happens that requires you to leave the boat.

And maybe the water in the bay's not all that cold. In Puget Sound the water is typically 42-45 degrees Fahrenheit. with it being colder in areas of high water exchange like the San Juans and warmer in areas with low water exchange like parts of Hood Canal. 42-45 degrees doesn't sound all that cold but in the hypothermia session that was part of our USCG Aux boating course we took years ago the department head from the UW School of Medicine who taught that week's class said the average person in a PFD might survive up to 2 hours but will be incapacitated in terms of swimming or other functions in about 20 minutes. And as a general rule, he said the older a person is the shorter those times will be.

Anyway, like the anchor that never drags until it does, you won't need any sort of dinghy or liferaft until you do. With the wall-to-wall boats on the water down there I suppose you won't end up in the water long enough to do any harm before someone comes to your rescue, assuming of course, that you don't get run over by your rescuers.

I like the idea of rowing the dinghy.

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We did, too, until we found out what it's like to try to row against a 2 or higher knot current. At that point, we bought a motor.

Marin said:

Only when I fly an aerobatic plane. There have been times when we've filmed on a very early flight of a new Boeing model and while we did not wear parachutes there was one for each of us on board. And when we fly in a chase plane (T-33 or T-38) we have to wear one.

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My Dad, as a B-17 copilot, had the practice of assuring two extra parachutes (12 parachutes for a ten-man crew) were carried onboard. That came handy when abandoning the plane over Germany when one crewman prematurely released his chute which had to be cast off in the bomb bay. All crew made it safely to the ground to be captured although the radioman later died from AAA wounds.

It's easy to not use a parachute if you have one but it's a bitch to use a parachute if you don't have one. Sort of like liferafts and dinghies.

I met and interviewed a lot of B-17 crewmen in the course of producing a film for Boeing to commemorate the plane's 50th anniversary. Two comments still stand out in my mind. One was about how cold it was.

The other was about fear. I was interviewing the surviving members of a crew who'd come to the 50th Anniversary celebration at Boeing Field and I asked them how they had as teenagers dealt with fear during their missions. One of them, a gunner, said, "It was like being hung. They say if you hang long enough you get used to it. We got used to it."

markpierce said:

Since much of the SF estuary is shallow, one survival technique would be to climb the Coot's mast, like in the boat Orca-versus-the-shark movie (Jaws). Remember seeing the top of the mast of a sailboat sunk in San Pablo Bay on the westward return of the SF-Vallejo race in the 1960s.

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The average depth of SF estuary is 14 feet. The exceptions, of course, are locations like Racoon (spelled correctly, for HMS Racoon which careened in Ayala Cove in 1814) Strait which is the ancient river bed of the Sacramento River during the last ice age. It has a depth in places reaching 140 feet. So if our boats sank in an average place in the bay we may find ourselves sitting on our flying bridges with a beer in hand waiting for rescue!

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Giggitoni said:

.... So if our boats sank in an average place in the bay we may find ourselves sitting on our flying bridges with a beer in hand waiting for rescue!

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That's an optimistic view.

...one reason why I keep a cooler on the FB...

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Giggitoni said:

...one reason why I keep a cooler on the FB...

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Gee whiz, Ray! How many refrigeration/ice-maker/cooling units have you got on the Mahalo Mai?

Giggitoni said:

...one reason why I keep a cooler on the FB...

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Now that's what I call a practical emergency plan!

If I'm taking on water with operating engine(s), I can run aground is a matter of minutes..faster than I could deploy a dingy.

My main concern is fire. If I can't fight it, I need to abandon ship. Many folks keep their dingys in a position that might require 3-5 minutes to deploy. That might not be feasible in the event of a fire.

Total electrical failure might render some davit-dependent dingys inaccessible. In those cases, dingy or not, we're getting wet.

Like lifeboats, individual parachutes are useless if you can't deploy them. You can't deploy them unless you're out of the airplane. You can't get out of most GA airplanes in flight due to the air forces on the swinging doors. You need removeable hinge pins to be able to free the door enough to get out.

The modern approach to this is the Cirrus Aircraft BRS, Ballistic Recovery System.

BRS Emergency Parachute test - YouTube

Maybe we should install self-inflating tubes around the perimeter of our hulls (like the Apollo space capsules) to provide emergency flotation.

I think they should have made those capsules rowable.

FlyWright said:

Now that's what I call a practical emergency plan!

If I'm taking on water with operating engine(s), I can run aground is a matter of minutes..faster than I could deploy a dingy.

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That's my plan! Unless as mentioned earlier, just retreat to the flybridge and phone BoatUS. The Chesapeake is just a shallow pan of water with a deep (50') trench running up the middle. And it's almost all sand and mud, no significant fear of rocks.

I have the BoatUS app on the phone that, with a push of a button, they get my call and GPS location.