Hurricane Plan Revisited

We are considering a different hurricane plan. We have moved our boat to Gulfport Mississippi and the marina policy is to ask you to leave in the event of a hurricane that will affect us. We still keep a slip several miles up the Tchefuncte River north of Lake Ponchatrain, but this will require a twelve hour run to get there, and we also prefer to let that slip go.
I'm told that several boats survived Katrina by anchoring in Gulfport Lake. This is a body of water several miles inland from Biloxi. I'm considering this as our plan but would like to get some input on how much rode, anchor types and any other preparations that should be considered. The plan would probably be to leave the boat unattended during a storm which I am not crazy about. Thoughts??

I think the other improperly moored or anchored boats breaking out is the biggest concern.Those being blown into your boat will cause it to break loose and get beat to death and/or sunk.Flying debris is also a more concern.Window coverings will help keep water out in case of a broken window.I know,I'm preaching to the choir.

Our marina has the same policy. I have no options concerning moving the boat and I told the marina supervisor that. He stated he understood, but offered no alternatives.

So my plan is to prep the boat and leave it there. Tampa Bay has not had a direct hit hurricane since the '20s. We're due.

The marinas are trying to avoid damage to their marina by the boats. In FL, they passed a state law forbidding that. Hell, where are all the boats supposed to go? Not to mention the damage to people and property that would result in that mass evac. Thank goodness they don't do that here in Texas.

Keith said:

The marinas are trying to avoid damage to their marina by the boats. In FL, they passed a state law forbidding that. Hell, where are all the boats supposed to go? Not to mention the damage to people and property that would result in that mass evac. Thank goodness they don't do that here in Texas.

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NJs last hurricane forbid owners to trailer their little boats out because of the evac route roads being full...go figure...damned if you try...damned if you don't by the insurance world.

I would never moor and abandon....unless it was bridled with wire to one or more hull rings so NO chafe could happen ...and the anchor would have to be a USCG 20,000 pound buoy sinker or better...the 3 danforth rig would be OK if I could preset and check with a dive rig. If staying aboard..and beyond cat 2 would be a crap shoot...then other options are available. Even then you are at the mercy of a thousand other idiots and issues.

The absolute best defense for a power vessel is to move laterally when the time comes.

psneeld said:

NJs last hurricane forbid owners to trailer their little boats out because of the evac route roads being full...go figure...damned if you try...damned if you don't by the insurance world.

I would never moor and abandon....unless it was bridled with wire to one or more hull rings so NO chafe could happen ...and the anchor would have to be a USCG 20,000 pound buoy sinker or better...the 3 danforth rig would be OK if I could preset and check with a dive rig. If staying aboard..and beyond cat 2 would be a crap shoot...then other options are available. Even then you are at the mercy of a thousand other idiots and issues.

The absolute best defense for a power vessel is to move laterally when the time comes.

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All good points- but a lateral move is seldom an option in a 7 knot boat. Hurricanes are too unpredictable.

"All good points- but a lateral move is seldom an option in a 7 knot boat. Hurricanes are too unpredictable"
They sure are unpredictable.
When I was working a group of customers from Clewiston Fl. were visiting our plant. They cut their visit short when a hurricane was forecast to hit our area, near New Orleans. They were on their way back to Florida when the storm took a right turn and hit their area, we had no problem here.
Steve W

Well in my book they are predictable enough to get out of the "blast area" even at seven knots. You only have to be 100 plus miles away in most cases to miss the most destructive storm surge and when only a few days out the storm tracks are reasonable enough.

At one of the local marinas here in Pensacola Fl. I was told if you had full insurance coverage you could leave your boat in place. I didn't follow up and confirm that since it didn't apply to me. In fact another marina I am using offers a Hurricane plan that you sign up for and pay in advance and they will reserve a spot on the hill for you and haul out and block. About $1200, but if you don't use it you can get a free haul out and block for 5 days after the season has passed. This particular marina has high ground and boats did pretty well in our big blow, Ivan in 2004. We also had Dennis in 2005 that passed right over us.

When hurricane Rita was headed for us, if I would have tried to run, I would have headed east. That's exactly where the hurricane went at the last minute. Try to run outside that 5 day cone at 7 knots. Remember they don't necessarily follow that center line.

Fighterpilot, Which Marina? I have a haulout reserved for Bahia Mar. looking for one that can do better after Ivan...

Forklift, Most of the boats around here go to hurricane hole. It's a "lake" of some sorts up the Tchoutacabouffa river. They tie up to pine trees on both sides and ride the surge up and down. If your not on the boat than you may want to find a spot up a river, which I have knowledge of but I would have to show you. If a storm comes, you call me and we will scout out a few great spots. Me on the other hand just dropped off 4 more 35' pilings to drive across the canal for more security.

swampu said:

Forklift, Most of the boats around here go to hurricane hole. It's a "lake" of some sorts up the Tchoutacabouffa river. They tie up to pine trees on both sides and ride the surge up and down. If your not on the boat than you may want to find a spot up a river, which I have knowledge of but I would have to show you. If a storm comes, you call me and we will scout out a few great spots. Me on the other hand just dropped off 4 more 35' pilings to drive across the canal for more security.

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Swampu, I would like to take you upon your offer. I would be much happier tied between trees. Can you PM your cell number to me? I would prefer to check it out before a storm shows up. I'll give you a call and see what we can work out.

timjet said:

Our marina has the same policy. I have no options concerning moving the boat and I told the marina supervisor that. He stated he understood, but offered no alternatives.

So my plan is to prep the boat and leave it there. Tampa Bay has not had a direct hit hurricane since the '20s. We're due.

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You plan on ignoring the policy? Is it written in your lease? Will they kick you out if you don't move the boat? Will they hold you liable for damage to the docks that might have been caused by your boat? Will they move the boat out on their own (or have it moved) and force you to pay the costs involved?

I think that if the lease says you have to move the boat in case of a hurricane, you had better plan on moving it. You do have options, you just haven't looked hard enough.

My marina requires that boats be removed from the wet slips in the event of a predicted hurricane. Owners are required to have a written hurricane plan on file.

There are two options - Have the marina haul and store the boat in their dry stack building (there's a cost for this) or take it somewhere, anywhere. They can haul my 10K lb boat and that's the option I choose. A few at the marina have to leave, they are too heavy for the lift.

Last hurricane that went through here I had my boat haued because my insurance paid for it.

As I sat through the storm...I realized that a 5 foot stom surge would have wrecked every hauled boat in the marina but the ones in the slips may have rode it out fine because most boats were pulled.

I will never have my boat hauled at a seaside marina unless the marina has significantly high terrain AND concrete embedded tie downs.

My new plan is to run it up a river about 10 miles away, 10 miles upstream for a total of 15 miles inland with 50 foot terrain between me and the ocean and significant trees and buildings to knock the winds down too.

It's about a 6 hour run at high tide another 1-2 hours if low when I leave. I can leave with hurricanne landfall less than 36 hours away because of where I sit on the NJ coast.

rwidman said:

You plan on ignoring the policy? Is it written in your lease? Will they kick you out if you don't move the boat? Will they hold you liable for damage to the docks that might have been caused by your boat? Will they move the boat out on their own (or have it moved) and force you to pay the costs involved?

I think that if the lease says you have to move the boat in case of a hurricane, you had better plan on moving it. You do have options, you just haven't looked hard enough.

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The lease says that we have to move our boat if a named storm is forecast in the area. There are not many places to store a 25000 lb boat and even less lifts capable of pulling it. I have insurance and it will have to suffice.

Besides in the Tampa Bay area you would have to move the boat 20 miles inland or find a stack storage 30 ft high to get out of the storm surge, not really practical is it?

If they insist I move the boat, I will leave and let them move it for me. We'll sort out the legalities later. I won't put my life in danger to accommodate their unreasonable policy and in practice I doubt they will either.

I've seen enough storms to know that when the big one hits there is not much to sort out. Were your boat was may be a house. I doubt there going to bust your chops over a broken piling or pulled deck board if a good one comes along. It's the small ones that get you.

Hell, where are all the boats supposed to go? Not to mention the damage to people and property that would result in that mass evac.

Florida , and most places have loads of inland rivers.

Away from the coast , pick a location with soft banks , not rip rap , and simply anchor. Use all but the last one.

IF the Army Corps hasn't chewed the river to a straight line anchoring should be no problem, IF you can get at least 50 miles inland .

Seasoned skippers will rent a strong dock in a hurricane hole area , they hope never to use.

At $1000 a summer its cheap insurance, lower than most deductibles.

FF

timjet said:

The lease says that we have to move our boat if a named storm is forecast in the area. There are not many places to store a 25000 lb boat and even less lifts capable of pulling it. I have insurance and it will have to suffice.

Besides in the Tampa Bay area you would have to move the boat 20 miles inland or find a stack storage 30 ft high to get out of the storm surge, not really practical is it?

If they insist I move the boat, I will leave and let them move it for me. We'll sort out the legalities later. I won't put my life in danger to accommodate their unreasonable policy and in practice I doubt they will either.

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I hope that works out for you.

"I will leave and let them move it for me"

Should it end up impaled by a piling , their insurance co will claim you were negligent.

Your insurance co may do the same!

FF

FF

I just find it sad that someone would sign a contract with no intention of abiding by the terms of the contract.

"I just find it sad that someone would sign a contract with no intention of abiding by the terms of the contract."

Even worse when some clown would swear to up hold the US Constitution and then ignore what is written.

Lack of respect for contracts might be better discussed elsewhere tho.

rwidman said:

I just find it sad that someone would sign a contract with no intention of abiding by the terms of the contract.

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Yes you are correct. I wish there were some feasible alternatives. Some may say there are and if I had a week to prepare perhaps so, but in talking initially with the marina supervisor he said he understood when I told him I have no plans on moving the boat if the marina tells me to do so. He also mentioned others in the marina have said the same thing.

The marina does have a fork lift capable of lifting my boat out of the water and placing it on their concrete parking lot. I'm concerned the fork lift would do damage to my boat but if there is room and that option is available I may do that at a cost of $2000. But in the end the money would be wasted because the storm surge would float the boat off the parking lot anyway and perhaps do far more damage. It is predicted that a cat 1 hurricane has a storm surge of 8 ft. Far above the parking lot pad.

Contracts are broken all the time with no consequences. I'm not saying it's right but it happens. I lost my define benefit retirement plan because my company broke the retirement contract. I'm fortunate that the govt allows me to work until age 65 past the previous mandatory age of 60, or my retirement would look very different.

Our last insurance company required that we submit a hurricane plan with our application. I would bet if we did not follow the plan and had a claim, the insurance company could deny payment. The picture was in preparation for Hurricane Jimena, 2009, Santa Rosalia, MX.

Hurricane Plan for the m/v Hobo

Larry M....
August 2011

If we are in an area that is prone to hurricanes or cyclones:

We obtain our weather information from NOAA, Buoyweather (a fee subscription weather service), and local sources. NOAA and Buoyweather data are accessed daily using the SSB radio and pactor modem or via the internet. We also obtain local forecasts daily via various cruiser SSB nets. We plot storm tracks onto onionskin overlays on local charts.

If we are unable to run and/or avoid a storm, vessel preparations would vary with location and would include (in order of preference): 1) Haul out in a secure boat yard and remove all exterior canvas and attachments. 2) Go far up a river and secure the boat with anchors and lines to shore. 3) Secure the boat in the most protected harbor or marina we can find.

The problem with hurricanes is we all start worrying when we see one coming...even far away. We all know that the 7-10 day forecast is only a notion for a specific landfall...but we start thinking. At day 5 is when most of us start wringing hands....close enough to be accurate.

Acting before day 5, EVERY hurricane, gets old fast (in the USCG we had to take action sometimes with the hurricane still 1000 miles away...and in 23 years I wasted a lot of energy and emotion for nothing).

Wait till day 2-3 and you have a better idea where it is gonna hit...but now you are down to the "better get going NOW!" point. Unfortunately lots of jobs don't allow for that or the 3 days being gone till the cane passes.

So unless your marina is a truly full service one with the ability to start getting ready (in water or not) and finish before they evacuate...you are at the mercy of random chance which includes what your and the marina's insurance companies will actually do.

My insurance company allows me to cruise to any destination on my endorsement year round. They DO require a hurricane haul out and I am required to haul out at that named marina. Not sure how I will proceed if I am seperated by tyranny of distance.

Our marina has a move clause in the lease as well, but many (read: most) ignore it. That said, however, NC state law says that they cannot require you to move. You lease that spot from them and can stay if you want. BUT, that does mean you are liable for damages to the marina AND it's likely you won't be asked to stay when your lease is up.

When Irene came thru, at best only about half the boats left (we were among them... we hauled in a boatyard). There was very little, if any, damage to boats. Granted that every storm is different. There is a 6-story hotel that block the wind from the north for us. We will probably stay put next time if the storm is a Cat 2 or less.

I would much rather be in a marina with pilings, people, and emergency services than deep up some river or in a "hole" that's miles away from civilization and not people around to help should something happen. Nor would I abandon my boat in a place like that and would never tie to a tree during a hurricane. Trees fall and it can drag you down and around with it should you not be there or could not get loose from it at the height of a storm.

I would much rather be in a marina with pilings, people, and emergency services than deep up some river or in a "hole" that's miles away from civilization and not people around to help should something happen.

The problem is storm surge.

As noted CAT 1 can easily be 6 ft , a CAT 3 can be 15ft in many areas CAT 5 ?!!!!!.

Most pilings in marinas do not stand 20+ ft above the normal water level, so the the docks floating off with the boats attached is the hassle.

The marinas want your boat gone so they have a chance at hanging on to their docks . The electric wires rip out as the pack leaves , sometimes interesting if the town power is still on.

Anchoring properly in a protected waterway is not tieing on to a tree.
It is a procedure you can do if properly prepaired.

The biggest hassle with a well chosen hurricane hole is most bridges have wind speed limits , so you have to go early if at all.
After an Evac is called , most bridges wont open , regardless of wind speed.

A boat is ALWAYS the skippers responsibility, not some boat yards.

FF

Wow - hurricanes, divers every three weeks to clean growth (separate thread), and then there's that big hot ball up in the sky that bakes everything.

Up here in the PNW we just have to power-wash off the moss every few years...