Anchor size for our new to us boat

Recently bought a 38' Present/Nautique. About 21,000lbs and with the fly bridge and radar arch about 17' tall. Came with a 45lb CQR. Same anchor we had on our 41' sailboat (plus 200' of chain) and it never let us down. Seems with the windage on the new boat a bigger anchor would be called for. Plan is all chain rode.

Any thoughts?

Bob

BobH said:

Recently bought a 38' Present/Nautique. About 21,000lbs and with the fly bridge and radar arch about 17' tall. Came with a 45lb CQR. Same anchor we had on our 41' sailboat (plus 200' of chain) and it never let us down. Seems with the windage on the new boat a bigger anchor would be called for. Plan is all chain rode.

Any thoughts?

Bob

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Bob, on our 42 Sundeck we used a 36# plow for a lunch hook (15' chain, 5/8 line) and then a Fortress 37 for overnight. Recently I went to 45# Delta with the 15' of chain for all needs. Never any trouble with the plow, just wanted "more"!

Phil Fill, I'm not sure about the "try it and see" approach. When we see it's not enough we may be somewhere without a WM. We were anchored in a very small cove in Maine surrounded by big rocks when they announced 40-45kn winds during the night. That's not the time to try it out. At the time we had the 45lb CQR and all chain rode on our sailboat and I still spent the night in the cockpit listening for the GPS anchor alarm. It's the windage on this boat that concerns me.

Bob

My boat (40 Albin) was cruised extensively in the Bahamas for over 20 years. PO had a 30 pound Delta and a 33 pound Bruce and 150 feet of 5/16 chain.

A friend gave me a 35 pound delta and I just bought a 60 Manson Supreme...sold the other 2 and got 200 feet of new 5/16.

But the real question in anchoring is are you really gonna anchor in storm conditions? Or are you gonna tie up when in doubt....

"are you really gonna anchor in storm conditions? Or are you gonna tie up when in doubt.... "

Not if I can help it, but while cruising the coast of Maine, tying up somewhere wasn't always an option.

Bob

Hello BobH

....Each one of us probably has a different opinion about anchors and tackle. I think that you have the approriated anchor for your boat. As tackle, I would get a 120' x 8mm chain and 240' 5/8" rope. Yeah, I'd do that for your boat.
I would also get a second 45' bruce with 90' of chain and as much rope as your most frequent curising grounds ask for.
These are my 2C of knowledge.

Enjoy your boat

BobH said:

"are you really gonna anchor in storm conditions? Or are you gonna tie up when in doubt.... "

Not if I can help it, but while cruising the coast of Maine, tying up somewhere wasn't always an option.

Bob

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I'm not talking thunderstorms when I say storm...I mean hurricane, Nor'easter, or stong Nor'wester after a cold front which are all forecast days or more in advance....

Our boat is a GulfStar 44 MC..and with all the aft deck canvas/eisenglass up...its almost like flying a 140 gennie.....lots of windage. We have a 60 lb CQR on 400' of 3/8's chain...and I have a Fortress FX-37 with about 90' of 3/8's chain and a 250' 5/8's rode... Dry weight of the boat is 38,000...but her wet weight is closer to 50,000.... I tend to prefer an anchor one size of so bigger than "recommended" for the boat.... We've been anchored out when a thunderstorm kicked up....and here in FL we gets some rather nasty winds in storms... haven't dragged yet....(knock on wood)...

I think the biggest element is what kind of bottom do you have to deal with. That seems to be the biggest variable.
That said I feel quite secure at anchor when I can set a specific anchor hard w a very tight rode at least 7or8 times at at least 3-1 scope. Then after setting that anchor hard again if it has enough fluke area it should hold your boat in a blow w a little more scope. A 40 knot wind should not drag the above described ground tackle if the bottom is reasonably good.
One could put it another way. Most any big anchor will hold most any boat in most any wind on most any bottom. You could say that sounds like a very safe thing to say, and I think it is but it's most dependent on the bottom. Next important variable is the skipper and finally the gear.
Sounds like the OP is in good shape but dosn't need all chain.

BobH said:

Recently bought a 38' Present/Nautique. About 21,000lbs and with the fly bridge and radar arch about 17' tall. Came with a 45lb CQR. Same anchor we had on our 41' sailboat (plus 200' of chain) and it never let us down. Seems with the windage on the new boat a bigger anchor would be called for. Plan is all chain rode.

Any thoughts?

Bob

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Bob, FWIW, in my opinion, the 45lb CQR with all chain should suffice in most conditions, as they do for many people. (See the K-dock anchor survey thread from MarkPierce). However, there are better ones out there, so spending quite a bit to just go up to 60lb same type arguable value. I'd go all chain for sure, and wait the short time until Super Sarcas (I'd suggest a #6 or 7, [I use a #6 =~49lb], on my 34 ft Clipper), or the Sarca Excel, (in which case a #5 = 49lb or #6 = 66lb, should be perfect), are available in Nth America, which I understand is soon. Anchor Right Australia

After you have chosen your religion,

Danforth ,Bruce, CQR , whatever , trod the docks and try to borrow the largest size you think will fit into the your rollers.

There is no real downside to a larger anchor , as most folks use windlass to get it aboard.

The largest of each (a burring anchor like a CQR , or a non burring anchor like a Danforth) that can be easily retreived and stored with no effort , will give the best nights sleep.

FF

BobH said:

Recently bought a 38' Present/Nautique. About 21,000lbs and with the fly bridge and radar arch about 17' tall. Came with a 45lb CQR. .....Seems with the windage on the new boat a bigger anchor would be called for. Plan is all chain rode.

Bob

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Eric Henning called it correctly, I think, and that is that the answer to your question lies in the type(s) of bottoms you'll be anchoring in. Anchor tests, while they can be spun to make a particular type of anchor outshine others, do provide good comparison data if you look at enough of them. You'll start to see patterns emerging. Like for sand and mud bottoms, the Danforth-type seems to always be at or near the top in terms of holding power. And claw anchors (Bruce, etc) do very well at intial setting in a variety of bottoms but are at or near the bottom of the list when it comes to holding power. And so on.

The advice to look at what other boaters in your area are using and get that is good up to a point, but when it comes to anchors boaters tend to be a bit like sheep in this regard. They get what other people have because other people have them. It's one of the main reasons we changed the Danforth-type anchor that came with our boat (from SFO Bay where that anchor type is an excellent choice) to a Bruce. Bruce/claw and CQR are still the most numerous anchor types in this area.

But you have to take into consideration that these days I would say the majority if not the vast majority of boaters never use their anchors. Or use them only as lunch hooks in a protected bay. So the fact that every other boat in the marina has a Bruce or CQR or Danforth does not mean that all these boaters are experiencing outstanding performance from them. It just means these anchors have become the anchors of choice for boaters to stick on their bows.

For us (and others we know) the Bruce proved to be a very "draggy" anchor despite its fast initial setting. So we eventually got rid of it and went to a different type.

Forty five pounds seems a good size for a 38 foot boat under "normal" anchoring conditions. Of course, defining "normal" is a sort of frustrating exercise. Personally, if someone held a gun to my head and said I had to use a CQR or a Bruce on a 38' powerboat I would go at least one if not two sizes larger than 45 pounds if the pulpit and windlass could accommodate it.

However, for the area we boat in and knowing what I know now I would not choose either a CQR or a Bruce/claw anchor for any boat we owned. Like Peter B above, I believe there are far superior anchor designs out there today and would go with one of them.

For our waters and our conditions (PNW) I believe all-chain rode is superior to a combination rode unless the boat is very weight-sensitive in the bow.

Steve Dashew has described the best approach, I think. He said to get an anchor so big that when people look at it, they ask "are you kidding? " Then go up one size and you should be good to go.

Delfin, I like the Steve Dashew approach.

Doing what other boaters in the area are doing won't work since we plan to do some cruising, Gulf Coast, Bahamas, East Coast, Great Loop.

But thanks for all the input. Like I said, we covered pretty much that whole area, except the Great Loop, with our 41' sail boat and the 45# CQR with all chain rode served us well. Considering the increased windage of the current boat makes me think a bigger size would help me sleep better.

Bob

Delfin said:

Steve Dashew has described the best approach, I think. He said to get an anchor so big that when people look at it, they ask "are you kidding? " Then go up one size and you should be good to go.

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That's funny! Tom and I met Steve and Linda Dashew just this week in Morehead City. His 83 Windhorse has a 250 pound Ronca! We said HOLY **** 250? He also had at least 300 ft of 3/8 chain behind it. He said specifically that the anchor does ALL of the work, but is only 1/3 of the whole anchoring system. In Beaufort NC the night before, we watched him single handedly anchor with a 2-1 or 3-1 rode.

Steve said, there is no such thing as too much anchor.

Yes, Tom and I felt like we met celebrities. He said he never builds a boat for anyone without meeting them. I said, "good, we got that part out of the way....now to find the money!"

And here are the pics to prove it:

He also said he used to use a big Bruce, but the wings were too wide to pull off some spring line dock maneuvers. He also wanted to scale it up even more, but they refused sighting that what he had was more than enough. Rocna was happy to scale it as large as he requested. He has now found that he gets better holding in ANY bottom conditions (and they have seen them ALL) with his new anchor than with his old.

Guess he would like our 80KG on a really light low profile 50 ft .

Talk'in about oversized anchors and all chain is a whole lot easier than carrying them around or keep'in your bow out of the big waves and not in them. Lighter is always better once you have enough. A light boat is a joy and a heavy boat is a dog. But the advantages of all chain, mostly vastly reduced swing'in radius, is getting more appealing all the time. I could even cave to it some day.
I once overheard a fisherman saying about another fisherman "here comes Jerry (name changed) lett'in out miles of line and swing'in all over the place". Our anchorages are mostly small in Alaska and I see ther'e crowded here so either way minimal swinging is very desirable.

manyboats said:

Talk'in about oversized anchors and all chain is a whole lot easier than carrying them around or keep'in your bow out of the big waves and not in them. Of course you have to know your boat. Lighter is always better once you have enough. Most cruisers disagree A light boat is a joy and a heavy boat is a dog. And who else thinks that is a general rule of thumb???And for what kind of boats??? But the advantages of all chain, mostly vastly reduced swing'in radius, is getting more appealing all the time. I could even cave to it some day. Ground tackle is always a compromise...Unless you carry one of everything. I once overheard a fisherman saying about another fisherman "here comes Jerry (name changed) lett'in out miles of line and swing'in all over the place". Our anchorages are mostly small in Alaska and I see ther'e crowded here so either way minimal swinging is very desirable.

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Hope your trip gets a bit better!

A light boat is a joy and a heavy boat is a dog. And who else thinks that is a general rule of thumb???And for what kind of boats???

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When I am driving our 30,000 pound GB36 and three adults and a dog or two walk up to stand on the foredeck there is no discernible difference whatsoever in the boat's trim, handling or feel. I know the additional weight up there is pushing the bow down a bit, but in terms of the boats feel, handling, or even sight picture out the front, there is no discernible change.

Do the same thing on Carey's lobsterboat and there may well be a change in the handling, feel, ride, etc. But on a heavy boat like ours, the difference between an all chain rode in the locker and a combination rode of the same length would be zero from a handling, ride, etc. point of view. Same with an anchor. We used to have a 33 pound anchor on the pulpit. Now we have a 44 pound anchor up there. I suspect we could put a 55 pound anchor up there and there would still be no discernible difference in the trim, ride, handling, or feel of the boat.

As psneeld says, it all depends on the boat.

Thank's psneeld we're doing fine now. We're at Pender Is tonight and probably tomorrow to avoid some of the holiday circus. Then we'll cross over into the US. I agree w all your comments.
Just read Marin's post. You're absolutely right guys. The trick is to decide how right you are and how right I am. I am right and you are right and the difference is fly stuff. Perhaps a bit more weight in the bow of Willy would keep her from bobbing up and down so much. But I've never had any heavy water smack the pilothouse windows ..... Yet.

manyboats said:

But I've never had any heavy water smack the pilothouse windows ..... Yet.

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We haven't either. Lots of fairly heavy spray thanks to the GB's minimal bow flare. But we've never taken any green water onto the bow even through the bow hawses and even when pitching up and down a LOT in the monster Bayliner wakes we get around here. You could plant sequoia trees in the furrows they plow.

Marin said:

When I am driving our 30,000 pound GB36 and three adults and a dog or two walk up to stand on the foredeck there is no discernible difference whatsoever in the boat's trim, handling or feel. I know the additional weight up there is pushing the bow down a bit, but in terms of the boats feel, handling, or even sight picture out the front, there is no discernible change.

Do the same thing on Carey's lobsterboat and there may well be a change in the handling, feel, ride, etc. ...

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Yeah, I like the stability/solid feel when walking the decks of 14-ton Coot, as opposed to my Dad's four-ton sloop.