Trawler shopping

Our boat was 25 years old when we bought it, and the engines had, according to the selling broker, "about 1200 hours on them." The Hobbs meters had been replaced 250 hours earlier so we were initially suspicious of the low hours on a 25 year old boat. But the engines checked out great on the engine survey and oil analysis and we were later able to determine that the 1200 hours in 25 years figure was accurate.

In talking to people up here who boated for years in SFO bay, which is where our boat spent its whole life until we bought it, we were told that low hours on an older boat in that area is not automaticalliy an indication of long periods of neglect. There's not that far you can go down there, they said. Back and forth across the bay and up the rivers and that's it. So it's very possible to use a boat quite a bit for a lot of years in that area but not rack up a lot of hours, which after going over the previous owner records and notes had obviously been the case with our boat.

ARoss said:

Got me curious. I went to Yachtworld, and searched on trawlers...and you might be surprised at the hours that are quoted...

Click to expand...

Well, keep in mind that every single piece of information was put there by a broker. I would hazard a guess that the majority of brokers would put 2000 hours down for a 5000 hour boat if there was a major overhaul at 3000 hours. Or even a minor overhaul. Or perhaps an oil change. Or the rumour that there might have been an oil change.

As others on this thread have pointed out, there are no "rules" when it comes to what to look for - there are just a lot of warning signs of potential problems. Documentation can be a big help in filling in holes, but it won't establish certainty.

If you have some particular skill, however, the warning sign that everyone else can see might work in your favor. If you are a welder (as the OP stated), or a diesel engine mechanic, or maybe you have a couple of teenage sons who are budding craftsmen and will work for free (OK, that last one's a stretch) then maybe you do the work yourself to add value.

refugio said:

Well, keep in mind that e maybe you do the work yourself to add value.

Click to expand...

So getting involved in trawlering should be with the intention to 'add value'?

jeffnick said:

So getting involved in trawlering should be with the intention to 'add value'?

Click to expand...

Egads, no - but it CAN be a route to end up with a trawler (heck, anything) that you couldn't afford/justify purchasing at the outset.

(added) It can also be a route that destroys value if you don't complete the work, or if your efforts result in something that is not valued by subsequent buyers. I'm going to pull a number out of thin air and estimate that less than 10% of "project" purchases actually end up increasing the value of the project. And if you count the market cost of the "free labor", it's probably 1% - if that.

I think that owners LIKE to think they use their boats a lot till they look at the hour meters...

I'll bet there's more "truth stretching cruisers" out there than flat out lying brokers...most people just never use their boats as much as they think or want to.

psneeld said:

I'll bet there's more "truth stretching cruisers" out there than flat out lying brokers...

Click to expand...

That would an interesting comparison indeed!

If only there were a way to get an accurate count of either group...

Of course, there are also the owners who - when selling the boat - mention that the hours aren't really that high, but they have to have the panel on when trolling, or they left the key on for a week while doing maintenance, or...

psneeld said:

I think that owners LIKE to think they use their boats a lot till they look at the hour meters...

I'll bet there's more "truth stretching cruisers" out there than flat out lying brokers...most people just never use their boats as much as they think or want to.

Click to expand...

A lot of truth to that. On our recent cruise to the Bahamas over a month we put around 20 hours on our engines. At the speeds we run, it doesn't take long to get there. Then we slow down an pull the dinghy for the short hops 10-15 miles between cays. We will usually stay 2-4 nights before moving on. Not many hours at all.

Regarding a boat's value and how what you do to it affects it's value.......

I don't think you can ever add value in terms of monetary value with a boat unless its a collector boat like a Hacker Craft or Gar Wood runabout of the like. People say, "I sold my boat for more than I paid for it," but in most cases that's numbers of dollars, not dollar value. Our boat sold new in 1973 for less than half what we paid for it in 1998. But if you calculate the difference in dollars adjusted for inflation and other factors, our boat lost a fair amount of it's actual value during that 25 years. At the time we bought our GB36, new ones were selling for a bit over $300k equipped to be usable. That is almost ten times what they sold for new in 1973.

So with relatively few exceptions, a recreational boat almost always loses value over time no matter what you do to it.

The other factor affecting value is the selling price envelope for a given make, model, and year. We are considering having our old GB36 completely redone. New engines, generator, hull and superstruture totally reworked, new interior components throughout, etc. The cost of doing this will far exceed the current total dollar value of the boat. But if we do it, we won't be able to sell our boat (if we wanted to) for any more than the top end of the price envelope for 1973 GB36s.

So the "added value" of having the boat totally reworked will not be in dollars because we'll never see them back, but in what the boat is to us, how the overhaul enhances the value of the experience we get from using the boat.

".most people just never use their boats as much as they think or want to."

This is why PM and in particular how the boat was stored is usually of more concern than just hours.

Northern boats that are yanked for the winter have a far better chance of having a good usefull engine , because of the winter layup.

Where the engine is serviced , oil changed , antifreeze changed , and if not pickled , at least the exhaust is usually sealed.

Southern boats suffer from theit easy location.

This is probably part of why FL boats are 1/3 or 1/2 price less than northern boats.

FF

Marin said:

Regarding a boat's value and how what you do to it affects it's value.......

I don't think you can ever add value in terms of monetary value with a boat unless its a collector boat like a Hacker Craft or Gar Wood runabout of the like. People say, "I sold my boat for more than I paid for it," but in most cases that's numbers of dollars, not dollar value. Our boat sold new in 1973 for less than half what we paid for it in 1998. But if you calculate the difference in dollars adjusted for inflation and other factors, our boat lost a fair amount of it's actual value during that 25 years. At the time we bought our GB36, new ones were selling for a bit over $300k equipped to be usable. That is almost ten times what they sold for new in 1973.

So with relatively few exceptions, a recreational boat almost always loses value over time no matter what you do to it.

The other factor affecting value is the selling price envelope for a given make, model, and year. We are considering having our old GB36 completely redone. New engines, generator, hull and superstruture totally reworked, new interior components throughout, etc. The cost of doing this will far exceed the current total dollar value of the boat. But if we do it, we won't be able to sell our boat (if we wanted to) for any more than the top end of the price envelope for 1973 GB36s.

So the "added value" of having the boat totally reworked will not be in dollars because we'll never see them back, but in what the boat is to us, how the overhaul enhances the value of the experience we get from using the boat.

Click to expand...

You are 100% correct in that statement. You will never see the full value of a refit if you sell the boat. The value of a refit comes from using the boat, with the confidence that all is "right" with the boat, and that you are going to have less to deal with for a certain period of time.

Our 2001 4788 is a prime example. The average market price for this boat is around $225K. With great examples being upwards from that and poor examples lower. The "envelope" for this model right now is in my estimate between say $170 and $260K

We bought our boat for $130K as a "project boat" The boat suffered from defered maintenance. The engines had high blowby, the generator had issues, the list goes on and on. Typical laundry list of a boat that had been purchased new and just driven.

We repowered the boat with reman engines, put a new generator in, caught up with 100% of the defered maintenance, and basically brought the boat up to 100% new condition. As part of this, we added several systems to ther boat including waste treatment, heat, satellite communications, watermaker, etc... A long list of new "stuff"

I did none of the work on this project. I have the most of the skills but I recognized up front that I do not have the time. We hired a first class large shipyard to do the work.

Our total refit cost was something over $150K. Since I bought some of the parts myself I don't have the full numbers right here. I think I spent another $20K or so on parts I had shipped to the shipyard for installation.

So, now I'm into the boat for $280-300K+. I would never get that out of the boat if I sold it today.

But....

I'll keep the boat and get the benefit of owning a basically new boat. One of the best benefits is a lack of suprises. I'm not going to walk up to my boat in the near future and have Mr. Big Bill waiting for me to pay up. I can drive the boat, and keep up with maintenance, I do not have to catch up.

Yeah....the more I'm looking.....The more I'm realizing how much differed maintenance is out there.At least on the mechanical side of things.People selling are just going to have to price accordingly.Or folks will move on to the next boat.

Boats like anything else can be bought for a song and sold for profit...sometimes with little or no work into them...but that is the rarity than the norm.

It also depends on sweat equity...if you do the work....and it's quality work....it often can be the difference between selling a boat for more than you paid for it. Common...no... but does happen.