from fuel hog to hyper-efficient?

I have been looking at many boats to mainly day cruise SE Alaska and have found a few pocket trawlers I like but are out of my price range a bit for now. That said I have fallen in love with Uniflites and*Tollycrafts mainly because of a seemingly tough hull and amazing room with livaboard potential.*

Problem is I would like to an efficient diesel 50hp or less type boat not Old twin chryslers as power. Considering I only want displacement speed could one convert to a smaller engine and push a 26-34 Tollycraft at displacement safely? I only have 10 grand to work with as of yet.

I am sure buying an Albin 25 cruiser would be much less hassle anyway but seems a family/friend would enjoy a Tollycraft much more for a slow cruise.

Thanks in advance

El,* Switching from gas to diesel engines is not an inexpensive project.

You can get pretty decent fuel economy if you just run what you have at displacement speed.

If you are talking twins, some members have been pretty happy running one engine at a time.

If you had to buy two engines and put them in I do not think 10k would go very far, but it does buy quite a bit of gas. About 2500 gallons or so.

Hyper-efficient?* Would you consider a sailboat?*** JohnP

*

*

elhewman wrote:I have been looking at many boats to mainly day cruise SE Alaska and have found a few pocket trawlers I like but are out of my price range a bit for now. That said I have fallen in love with Uniflites and*Tollycrafts mainly because of a seemingly tough hull and amazing room with livaboard potential.*
Problem is I would like to an efficient diesel 50hp or less type boat not Old twin chryslers as power. Considering I only want displacement speed could one convert to a smaller engine and push a 26-34 Tollycraft at displacement safely? I only have 10 grand to work with as of yet.

I am sure buying an Albin 25 cruiser would be much less hassle anyway but seems a family/friend would enjoy a Tollycraft much more for a slow cruise.

Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

Hi Elhewman - I currently own a 1977 34' Tollycraft tri cabin with very low hour*twin 255*hp 350 cid Mercruisers... simply a great boat!* We've owned*Tolly sinse summer 08.**June 2010 I sold a twin screw*31' Uniflite sedan sport fisher... also a very nice boat!* Owned her for about a year.* I know a bit about*Tolly's and Uni's.* If you have specific questions feel free to ask.* I'll do my best to answer correctly and will tell you if I don't know.* Good luck in your search for a boat you'll enjoy! - Art**

*

Yeah, good point. Forgive my mechanically retarded question but could i ditch one of the old gas engines and put in a small diesel or for that . The particular boat i am looking at has twin engines. Why I am asking this question is because I can find used diesels in the 40-70hp range at reasonable prices. That said the installation even if I get help with preliminary work would probably kill me.

Though I asked another forum this question, Ill ask somebody you friendly folks too. What would you do with a 10,000 dollar budget? I want more guest room for cruising so a sailboat wont do and i want small diesel power 50 hp or less range. Buying an Albin 25 or similar type boat is winning my interest right now. But conversion of old hulls or finding a commercial troller(not wood), small tug boat ect. is inviting as well. But Nothing in the price range has been found thus far. Anything pocket trawler like sounds great unless my crazy tollycraft idea would work which it sounds like it won't.

Best deals i have found. thus far
Albin 25 hull with no motor or trailer for 2500.00 on the east coast.
1969 34' tollycraft tired engines possibly 7000.00 minimum

elhewman wrote:Yeah, good point. Forgive my mechanically retarded question but could i ditch one of the old gas engines and put in a small diesel or for that . The particular boat i am looking at has twin engines. Why I am asking this question is because I can find used diesels in the 40-70hp range at reasonable prices. That said the installation even if I get help with preliminary work would probably kill me.

Though I asked another forum this question, Ill ask somebody you friendly folks too. What would you do with a 10,000 dollar budget? I want more guest room for cruising so a sailboat wont do and i want small diesel power 50 hp or less range. Buying an Albin 25 or similar type boat is winning my interest right now. But conversion of old hulls or finding a commercial troller(not wood), small tug boat ect. is inviting as well. But Nothing in the price range has been found thus far. Anything pocket trawler like sounds great unless my crazy tollycraft idea would work which it sounds like it won't.

Best deals i have found. thus far
Albin 25 hull with no motor or trailer for 2500.00 on the east coast.
1969 34' tollycraft tired engines possibly 7000.00 minimum

Click to expand...

elhewman - $10K is very skinny amount*to buy a "good" old*boat.* Tell me more re the 69 Tolly.* What model... can you include a pict?* Does it have a fly bridge?* What type and size engines,*how many hours,*and do they run at all?* Transmission condition? Head and galley functional?* Any chance for sea trial?* Tell me more! - Art

*

Buy a small sailboat. Your budget won't allow anything else. IMHO!!!

Some observations and comments:

1.* Buying a twin gas engine Tolly and trying to replace both engines and transmissions with two diesels, plus the expense of reconfiguration of the fuel system would be way over $10K.

2.* Replacing only one of the engines with a diesel kind of defeats the purpose of having two matched and syncronized powerplants.* Plus you would still need to reconfigure half the fuel tanks to diesel and keep half as gas.*

3.* Running on only one of the engines will work but you sacrifice handling and course keeping.* With one engine power you will always be fighting the rudder to keep her going where you want her to go.* And it just gets worse trying to dock a twin engine boat with only one engine running.

4.* I would respectfully suggest you keep looking for a single engine, diesel powered boat in your price range and forget trying to jury-rig a solution.* The Albin 25 is a good compromise - low initial cost and an economical diesel engine.

Steppen wrote:Some observations and comments:
1.* Buying a twin gas engine Tolly and trying to replace both engines and transmissions with two diesels, plus the expense of reconfiguration of the fuel system would be way over $10K.

2.* Replacing only one of the engines with a diesel kind of defeats the purpose of having two matched and syncronized powerplants.* Plus you would still need to reconfigure half the fuel tanks to diesel and keep half as gas.*

3.* Running on only one of the engines will work but you sacrifice handling and course keeping.* With one engine power you will always be fighting the rudder to keep her going where you want her to go.* And it just gets worse trying to dock a twin engine boat with only one engine running.

4.* I would respectfully suggest you keep looking for a single engine, diesel powered boat in your price range and forget trying to jury-rig a solution.* The Albin 25 is a good compromise - low initial cost and an economical diesel engine.

Click to expand...

I agree with Steppen and think you need to go back to the drawing board.* Honestly... you need more $$$$ and a better plan.* Good luck, I wish you the best! - Art

*

Thanks for the Honest input guys. Sometimes boat lust can make anyone look stupid...especially a guy that is new to big boats. I Think a Small single engine craft will be plenty of learning curve, but not so much to overwhelm me. I like water time more than project time. Like I said earlier, a single engine displacement hull craft like Albin 25 or Allweatherboats (AK brand) type sounds like seaworthy winner to me. Perhaps I will need to save a year or two more.


-- Edited by elhewman on Tuesday 5th of April 2011 11:31:36 PM

If you can find an Allweather boat for 10K... BUY IT! They are great no nonsense cruisers but I don't think they come on the market that often (especially for 10k).
The Albin is a good choice also-lots of fun in a small package. I owned one with a 28hp VOLVO diesel. I would still own it today but it was just to small for me (6'4, 265).

AS a start find a boat you can use AS IS.

The cost and complexity of changing from twins to a single , or even just repowering a single will eat your budget.

The Albin 25 has a CPP , and a Sabb of Norway engine that is no longer supported.

They will fit on a trailer , so IF you found one anywhere , you could draG IT HOIME.

With little cash a modern diesel (Kubota or Yanmar used reefer engine) could be installed .

The key here is used , and non marine sourcing.

elhewman wrote:I have been looking at many boats to mainly day cruise SE Alaska and have found a few pocket trawlers I like but are out of my price range a bit for now. That said I have fallen in love with Uniflites and*Tollycrafts mainly because of a seemingly tough hull and amazing room with livaboard potential.*
Problem is I would like to an efficient diesel 50hp or less type boat not Old twin chryslers as power. Considering I only want displacement speed could one convert to a smaller engine and push a 26-34 Tollycraft at displacement safely? I only have 10 grand to work with as of yet.

I am sure buying an Albin 25 cruiser would be much less hassle anyway but seems a family/friend would enjoy a Tollycraft much more for a slow cruise.

Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

elhewman - Not knowing your location:* To locate many ads on Tollycraft and Uniflite boats, go to Seattle W*and/or Portland O Craigslist.**Also, Yachtworld.* Many* boats of both brands*are offered at low costs.* I believe some owners are needing to off load their boats ASAP... so... don't be affraid to make an offer*YOU can afford.* The owner just*might accept! - Best of luck, Art*

Sample: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=1734613&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=gigharbor&&ywo=gigharbor&

*

Thanks Guys. Been looking at checklists an trawlers And it is pretty overwhelming on most. I saw a CHB trawler(engine issue) for A possible 10 grand and realized that there was on heck of a lot more to worry about than just the engine problems. The Albin 25 or similar would be plenty of work for me and plenty simple. Like FF said finding a boat that runs as is sounds like the obvious plan. Who would have thought

As for my location I am in Sitka AK. When I mean business I run a fast 16ft skiff and kill deer and catch fish. I just want an efficient sea worthy slow trawler to mainly relax with my family in. Plenty of close bays to camp in but I still would take the occasional week long trip.

elhewman wrote:
...*I just want an efficient sea worthy slow trawler to mainly relax with my family in. Plenty of close bays to camp in but I still would take the occasional week long trip.

Click to expand...

*Know*how you feel.* On my last Alaskan cruise (mid-2010), I saw this blue-hulled trawler and told myself "I need one too."



*


-- Edited by markpierce on Thursday 7th of April 2011 01:01:08 AM

elhewman wrote:
...........*What would you do with a 10,000 dollar budget?

You'll have a hard time finding an 18' bow rider in good condition for $10,000, much less any sort of cruising boat.* Remember, there are operating costs and maintenance costs, it's not just the up front purchase cost.

I pay nearly half of that for my slip.* Each year.*

Any boat that you can buy over 20' long for that budget will be nothing but a constant headache.* If you save that $10K until you have three or four more of them, you can get in the ballgame.

Click to expand...

*

*


-- Edited by rwidman on Thursday 7th of April 2011 08:04:01 AM

elhewman wrote:Thanks Guys. Been looking at checklists an trawlers And it is pretty overwhelming on most. I saw a CHB trawler(engine issue) for A possible 10 grand and realized that there was on heck of a lot more to worry about than just the engine problems. The Albin 25 or similar would be plenty of work for me and plenty simple. Like FF said finding a boat that runs as is sounds like the obvious plan. Who would have thought

As for my location I am in Sitka AK. When I mean business I run a fast 16ft skiff and kill deer and catch fish. I just want an efficient sea worthy slow trawler to mainly relax with my family in. Plenty of close bays to camp in but I still would take the occasional week long trip.

Click to expand...

Elhewman *Believe it or not... OK boats DO exist in, or even*under,*your $10K purchase price range.* However, as was Rwidman mentioned... the upfront cost is just the beginning.* Depending on dockage and repair/maintain costs $4K annual is on the low end.* 2 x that annual*is not out of the question.* See the ad link on SF Bay Area CL.* Some people simply want to basically liquidate their craft.* IF... this Uni is in as good condition as stated (be careful I notice inconsistency re engines described), it's a good buy.* I know... I sold a duplicate Uniflite (even the same 1973 year) last June... she was a twin screw beaut.* If this one is good cond, and you had inexpensive way to transport to Sitka that might work for ya!* If not keep your eyes open, some OK boats are being sold pennies on the dollar.* Dont wait long to look into this one if youre interested probably wont last too long Best Luck! Art *- - > BTW If you want to learn how to keep both engines operational and greatly improve your GPH on a twin screw... PM me.

*http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/boa/2309728688.html
<h2>32-foot Uniflite flybridge cruiser - $3400 (marina / cow hollow)</h2><h2>This is a very nice cruiser in amazing shape. The rear bulkhead panel needs varnish but that is about all. A mechanic has recently serviced the duel Merc V8s and it starts immediately and runs very well. The hull has no blemishes which is an indication of the care the owners took in her. The windows have stainless frames and are in top shape. The bottom is clean and recently painted. It has a the standard safety equipment and is read to fish. This is as cheap as a nice Unifilte will get as any less and I will donate and take the deduction but it would nice to have someone get this who appreciates it.
Boat Name
Miller Time
</h2>

Sam,

How much fiberglass work are you capable and willing to do?

There are repowered boats around allthough few and far between that might suit you, other than the Albins. I see many Albin 25 in my area and a few Yars (darn few) which seem to be good little displacement boats, both with around 30 hp engines. You need to look at all the sources such as Yacht world, Craigs list, newspapers, magazines, talk to people, and brokers.

I know of two gas boats that were repowered with small diesels. Not many I know but they are around.
One was a 31' Uniflite (twin to the above) with two 60hp Isuzus - I see it every time I go to the marina.
The other was a 28 Tolly, big deck, small cabin sportfisher model, mid 70's that a fellow redid with two 60hp perkins. This boat I haven't seen for many years but it was nice.
Both were turned into 6-7 knot boats.
Both though were redone by the owners with used , running take out engines.
No idea what the cost was though as I see/saw them long after the conversions.

If a gas boat is attractive to you and the gas engine is in good condition there are things that can be done to get much improved economy. One is run the thing as a true displacement boat and not push that bow wave up and leave the big hole I see so many doing in the mistaken belief that they are running economically. Keep the tune right up.
Two folks I know with 26' Tollys can suck gas or run quite nicely but at 6-7K.

And take Art up on his offer.

Wow, that Uniflite sounded like a good buy if I ever had seen one! Though I am venturing away slowly from tollycraft/uniflite type boats, deals like that make me re-think things through! Good to know they can also be ran as a displacement boat because they are winners when it comes to comfort. I have not done the research on shipping these boats and doubt that I can get anything reasonable on my island.

As to Nomadwilly's question about fiberglass work. With the right hull I would approach excessive fiberglass work with great enthusiasm but I have only done research on the internet about glassing wood boats. I have seen some displacement hulls in the past that made me drool but Did not have the money to start anything. But they all needed glass work.

I am regularly checking all boating sales sites I know of and other classifieds of course. But Albin 25's in my area are not for sale yet. Should probably head to Juneau AK and walk the docks there. I am sure there a plenty of unadvertised displacement trawlers about. Sitka has 6 Taiwan type trawlers with merely a for sale sign on them. Perhaps Juneau has that Albin 25 or similar in my range.

Another thought....

If you're considering an Albin 25 you might also look at the Fisher 25s. There are a couple on yatchworld for 25 grand or so. A motorsailor...so if the wind is pushing the right direction you could shut the engines down and enjoy the quiet!

1975 Fisher 25 Motorsailor Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Elhewman,
Forget Uniflites, Tollys and all other faster boats. They just don't have a hull shape suitable for 6 or 7 knots and aren't as seaworthy and don't handle as well either.
There is an Albin 25 (w sail) in Craig. Don't know if it's for sale but it is very seldom (if ever) used and could be for sale. It has looked exactly the same for the last 10 years or so. Call the harbor master and possibly communicate w the owner. I will be back in Thorne Bay in 3 or4 weeks and could assist you.
You say you don't want wood but that could be your best option. Another option is to get down to The Seattle area and expand your shopping scope 100 times. I'm SURE you could find what you want in Puget Sound.
Your quest is not going to be easy so keep all doors open except planing hulls. And don't cave in to a scream'in deal on a planing hull. In time you wo'nt like it.

manyboats said:

Elhewman,
Forget Uniflites, Tollys and all other faster boats. They just don't have a hull shape suitable for 6 or 7 knots and aren't as seaworthy and don't handle as well either.
There is an Albin 25 (w sail) in Craig. Don't know if it's for sale but it is very seldom (if ever) used and could be for sale. It has looked exactly the same for the last 10 years or so. Call the harbor master and possibly communicate w the owner. I will be back in Thorne Bay in 3 or4 weeks and could assist you.
You say you don't want wood but that could be your best option. Another option is to get down to The Seattle area and expand your shopping scope 100 times. I'm SURE you could find what you want in Puget Sound.
Your quest is not going to be easy so keep all doors open except planing hulls. And don't cave in to a scream'in deal on a planing hull. In time you wo'nt like it.

Click to expand...

Eric - Good to hear your input again, and, you know I have much respect for your marine, sea, and boat knowledge - - > BUT!

That is a considerably one-sided statement you make... and, IMO some of your premises are wholly incorrect.

Tollycraft and Uniflite were very well built and comfortably laid out... if they were cared for they are still a good, affordable choice. At or just below hull speeds, even with twins, they are relatively economical; of course if getting somewhere quickly becomes paramount – they can do that too! Also, their hull and superstructure designs make most models of those two builds fine costal or ICWW cruisers.

With that said, to set the record straight: Many boats with hulls and overall design such as yours are also great craft for many uses. I believe there no need to bad mouth and type of boat... especially when said boats have proven their worth via tens of thousands well built products and the tens of thousands satisfied owners who for decades have raved about their Tollys and Unis quality on many levels. These craft have stood the test of time; thousands of them are continuing to do so in top class condition. I know... I currently own a super nice Tolly, previously owned a great Uni, and am currently looking at possibility of purchasing another great Uniflite sedan for off shore fishing, outside SF Bay... while still keeping our major comfortable tri cabin Tollycraft for cruising deep inside SF Delta’s warm freshwaters for swimming.

Art

You might consider these.

They're turning up for sale pretty regularly...usually under 5 grand with trailer. Some come with flybridge and some with outboard motors.

Mine is a Land N Sea, bigger at 28', vs the Sea Camper above at 24'. At 6 mph on the lake, my Chevy 350 regularly shows me 3 mpg.


With tides and current and often wind, sometimes 6 mph can be a losing proposition - that's when the 30 mph potential comes in handy and even staying put is a joy with the air conditioning and all other comforts of home.

Eye Gods Art I'm NOT Bad mouthing anything at all. The OP is talking "hyper efficient" and planing and semi-planing boats aren't hyper efficient. I read hyper efficient as just about as efficient as one can get w/o going to super light structure and multi-hulls. That means a full displacement hulled boat that goes close to hull speed w 3 or 4hp per ton of displacement. Uniflites and Tollycraft boats are way off the mark there. You can go that fast w 7 to 10hp per ton but that's a lot more power ........ Definitely not "hyper efficient". Uni's and Tolly's aren't going to do that or even come close unless the shape of the bottom is radically changed in the aft end. They just weren't designed to be efficient. Sorry I offended you Art but just think how fast a Uniflite would go w 3 hp per ton.

manyboats said:

Eye Gods Art I'm NOT Bad mouthing anything at all.

Click to expand...

Your previous statement: [/QUOTE] Forget Uniflites, Tollys and all other faster boats. They just don't have a hull shape suitable for 6 or 7 knots and aren't as seaworthy and don't handle as well either. [/QUOTE]

How do you define firmly and fully down grading successfully important boat makes on three of their top items and most primary levels? Especially when your three downgrades are notably incorrect... I define it as Bad Mouthing!

manyboats said:

how fast a Uniflite would go w 3 hp per ton.

Click to expand...

Our 34' 21,000 lb (when well loaded) Tolly does between 5.75 and 6 knots while running on one of our 350 cid 255 hp Chevy twins at just over 2000 rpm. You know number calcs - How many hp per ton would you say that equates to??? We get between 2.5 and 2.75 nmpg in this instance.

With both engines running and doing about 7 knots we still get near 2 nmpg. At 16/17 knots 1 nmpg... but we get there quickly

And, at any of those speeds she handles just fine - albeit a bit better while powered by her twins at slow speeds.

Art said:

Our 34' 21,000 lb (when well loaded) Tolly does between 5.75 and 6 knots while running on one of our 350 cid 255 hp Chevy twins at just over 2000 rpm. You know number calcs - How many hp per ton would you say that equates to??? We get between 2.5 and 2.75 nmpg in this instance.

Click to expand...

Art, that's not very efficient. The 35-foot, 28,000 lb. Coot does about 6.5 knots running its single 80 h.p. JD 4045DFM70 at 1600 RPM using 1.3 gallons per hours, or about five miles per gallon. Just don't ask it to exceed 7.5 knots, however.

markpierce said:

Art, that's not very efficient. The 35-foot, 28,000 lb. Coot does about 6.5 knots running its single 80 h.p. JD 4045DFM70 at 1600 RPM using 1.3 gallons per hours, or about five miles per gallon. Just don't ask it to exceed 7.5 knots, however.

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Mark - You are correct. But, it also is not really all that inefficient. There
is a trade off for everything... congrats on getting 5 nmpg at 6.5 knots in Coot... that IS considerably efficient; more than most power boats! How many gallons per hour at Coot’s top speed of 7.5 knots?

Art said:

How many gallons per hour at Coot’s top speed of 7.5 knots?

Click to expand...

Four! With the throttle pushed to the wall (2400 RPM). ... Ouch.

markpierce said:

Four! With the throttle pushed to the wall (2400 RPM). ... Ouch.

Click to expand...

Mark - Looks like our boats just about match in efficiency at 7 to 7.5 knots. Then... mine falls off the mpg-cliff at 16/17 knots! At 16 gph it can get expensive... we like to travel at or below hull speed. But, if we need to get somewhere quickly - heck, what's a few hundred bucks, once in a while!