Need ideas for mounting radar

refugio said:

Ignoring the opportunity for a bird joke, I will point out that Rule 7 of the ColRegs says:

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational
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This is generally interpretted to mean that, if you have an operational radar, it must be "in use".

I know this is a very anal thing to point out, but I think it's worth knowing "the rules" even if you decide not to follow them.

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Actually...the "must be in use" is a myth that a few people who went through captains courses keep alive in forums...

the rule is...

(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects.

(c) Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information.

A clear blue day does not require RADAR and it's info while useful is NOT EVEN CLOSE t being needed to avoid a collision with a small craft so the use would be debateable at best.

You can argue either way till you are blue in the face...but unless you have a near miss or an actual collision...the authorities are not gonna come ticket you because you don't have your radar on and if you do have a collision...there's probably 100 other things in line before the radar being an issue because the chances are you are not "certified" or "qualified" to even use it. Now if you are...different story...

psneeld said:

Actually...the "must be in use" is a myth...

the rule is...

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Maybe I'm particularly thick, but I don't see anything in the text you added - and highlighted - that contradicts my statement or supports your "myth" assertion.

psneeld said:

You can argue either way till you are blue in the face...but unless you have a near miss or an actual collision...the authorities are not gonna come ticket you because you don't have your radar on and if you do have a collision...there's probably 100 other things in line before the radar being an issue because the chances are you are not "certified" or "qualified" to even use it. Now if you are...different story...

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Um, I wasn't referring to the risk of being cited. The only time this is likely to come up is in a courtroom, and if I landed there I would be thankful if I followed the "prudent mariner doctrine".

refugio said:

Maybe I'm particularly thick, but I don't see anything in the text you added - and highlighted - that contradicts my statement or supports your "myth" assertion.

Um, I wasn't referring to the risk of being cited. The only time this is likely to come up is in a courtroom, and if I landed there I would be thankful if I followed the "prudent mariner doctrine".

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It's been argued ad nauseum at the "USCG" "Professional mariner level" and the words " appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions"
ring true...for the average recreational boater the use of radar in clear conditions can be as much as a distraction as a help...the average recreational boater really CAN'T use their radar effectively so it's a non-issue in the eyes of a maritime court...for the average rec boater...unless like I said you are "qualified" or "certified" in it's use....otherwise RADAR would be mandatory on ALL commercial vessel...which it isn't....and even radar certification isn't required.

psneeld said:

It's been argued ad nauseum at the "USCG" "Professional mariner level" and the words " appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions" ring true...for the average recreational boater the use of radar in clear conditions can be as much as a distraction as a help...

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I simply quoted the ColRegs - you're the one who interpretted "in use" to be a fulll-time radar operator. For the purposes of THIS thread, "in use" would start with "turned on" - i.e. emitting radiation - and maybe end there. Regardless, I'm sure you'll agree that running your radar when underway is generally considered a "good idea" - whether because it's warmed up, being continuously tested, being checked against visual references, increasing familiarization, whatever. That it is also required by the ColRegs is probably secondary - but it isn't a "myth".

refugio said:

I simply quoted the ColRegs - you're the one who interpretted "in use" to be a fulll-time radar operator. For the purposes of THIS thread, "in use" would start with "turned on" - i.e. emitting radiation - and maybe end there. Regardless, I'm sure you'll agree that running your radar when underway is generally considered a "good idea" - whether because it's warmed up, being continuously tested, being checked against visual references, increasing familiarization, whatever. That it is also required by the ColRegs is probably secondary - but it isn't a "myth".

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Sure using the Radar is a "good idea"...the colregs wording is such that not using it all the time makes you look like you are "unprofessional" or negligent which is almost good enough reason TO have it on all the time....

I only pointed out the "myth" that the rules require a radar if so fitted be in use at all times...otherwise why use the words "appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions"????

For the OP...I would definitely prefer folding masts to telescoping masts and stay away from aluminum pieces that work...like hinges and pins....make it stainless if it will work a lot.

The Colreg nterpretation psneeld properly refers to as a myth lies in the interpretation of the word "appropriate." Appropriate means just that--- something that makes sense under the circumstances. The relevant definition of "appropriate" in the dictionary on this computer is:

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adjective |əˈprōprē-it|
suitable or proper in the circumstances : a measure appropriate to a wartime economy.

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So in terms of the wording of the Colregs, the use of radar is determined by how appropriate it is to be using it under the specific conditions one finds oneself in. This is NOT the same as saying "if you have it you have to use it." Under Condition X (heavy fog) it may be appropriate to be using the radar to prevent a collision, but this does not mean that it is just as appropriate to be using it under Condition Y (clear with 15 mile visibility).

So if the skipper or captain determines that using the radar is not appropriate to the prevailing conditions, he or she is not at odds with the Colregs by leaving the radar off.

BUT...... if the radar is off and the vessel is involved in a collision or other accident/incident that MIGHT have been prevented had the radar been on, the skipper/captain/crew of the vessel could be determined to be totally or partially responsible for the event.

As with most things to do with boating, using the radar is an individual's judgement call. Judge wrong and you could have a problem. But there is nothing in writing that dictates exactly when you have to have the radar on because the water and weather environment is virtually infinite in what it can present to a boat's crew. So you could never define all the conditions under which radar MUST be used, even if you wanted to. So they leave it to the Person In Charge on the vessel to determine if the use of radar is "appropriate" under the prevailing conditions or not.