Help trawler confusion

This is our second year boating. We purchased a 28 ft Rinker in excellent shape and enjoyed the experience. But, did discover we purchased the wrong boat. We do not enjoy speed or should I say the noise associated with high speed planning. Also, fuel consumption, not to my liking. We decided on a trawler. Started to look at 30 to 36 ft used trawlers. We are located in buzzards bay Massachusetts and would enjoy cruising the ease coast. Looked at 36 ft Albins and others that I have found are from Taiwan. Here is where the confusion starts. It appears all but the very upscale ships have at one time or another been built in Taiwan including the Albin. I am looking at a Clipper 30ft that so far looks like it has been very well maintained. Still hage a lot of questions and need surveyor with experience in CHB's. I was told the Albin has good sea keeping properties, is this the same with a Clipper? Has anyone any experience and suggestion for a surveyor? Any information would be helpful. Right now I am bordering on "frustrated".
Thanks
Ken

Do you have a problem with boats being built in Taiwan? Many good and great trawlers are built in Taiwan.

Where a boat was built is not as important as how it was built.

I'll leave it to locals to suggest a surveyor for you and to actual owners to comment on the seakeeping abilities of boats they have owned. I am happy with my Camano but I run it on the Atlantic ICW which is relatively sheltered most of the time.

No I do not have a problem with Taiwan boats but the time built and location might suggest the building skills and quality control used. It appears teh boat builders in the early 80's were numerous and with the exception of Marine trader and Albin marine inspectors were not on site. Each boat seems to be different and a good surveyor will be able to make a determination. Regarding seakeeping I am not sure the owner would be the best to ask especially if anxious to sell. Also, many people with personal experiences whould probably give a better over all view.

Ken

Greetings,
Welcome aboard Mr. kpinnn! As Mr. rwidman stated, build quality is more important than "birthplace" and I might add, how the boat was maintained and kept up which IMHO is MOST important.
Frustration? I feel your pain but take a deep breath, sit down in your favorite chair, pour a beverage and relax. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of vessels to choose from. Have you done your homework? Do you have a SO who is on board? Kids? Do you have a list of what you would like in any particular vessel? Have you walked the docks and gone to boat shows?
Take your time, enjoy the hunt for "the" boat. Did I mention relax? This whole exercise (looking for, using and enjoying boats) is supposed to be fun or so I'm told. In the words of Capt. Jean-luc Picard "Make it so".
It's good you have a lot of questions. You're in the right place so ask away. This may not be the appropriate time to ask about surveyors unless you have genuinely decided on a boat that will fulfill your needs and wants.
The ox ix slow, but the earth is patient.

kpinnn said:

No I do not have a problem with Taiwan boats but the time built and location might suggest the building skills and quality control used. It appears teh boat builders in the early 80's were numerous and with the exception of Marine trader and Albin marine inspectors were not on site. Each boat seems to be different and a good surveyor will be able to make a determination. Regarding seakeeping I am not sure the owner would be the best to ask especially if anxious to sell. Also, many people with personal experiences whould probably give a better over all view.

Ken

Click to expand...

Not the owner of the boat you are looking at, people who have owned the various brands of boats. People on this and other boating forums.

There is a book I found helpful when I was looking for my first trawler. Trawlers and Motor Yachts. It reviews most of the trawlers on the market giving their good points and bad, I believe it was last printed in 2003, it will be especially useful if you are looking for a boat built pre 2000 but will be a good read even if you are looking for a newer model. It is listed on Amazon.com.
You might think about joining MTOA there are many members with every make of trawler you can imagine they hold regional meetings which would give you a chance to get first hand information. Trawlerfest is another chance to meet and interact with trawler owners as well as classes on maintenance cruising etc.You can do a search for MTOA or Trawlerfest for details.
There is of course a wealth of information on this site.
Steve W

Good luck

kpinnn said:

This is our second year boating. We purchased a 28 ft Rinker in excellent shape and enjoyed the experience. But, did discover we purchased the wrong boat. We do not enjoy speed or should I say the noise associated with high speed planning. Also, fuel consumption, not to my liking. We decided on a trawler. Started to look at 30 to 36 ft used trawlers. We are located in buzzards bay Massachusetts and would enjoy cruising the ease coast. Looked at 36 ft Albins and others that I have found are from Taiwan. Here is where the confusion starts. It appears all but the very upscale ships have at one time or another been built in Taiwan including the Albin. I am looking at a Clipper 30ft that so far looks like it has been very well maintained. Still hage a lot of questions and need surveyor with experience in CHB's. I was told the Albin has good sea keeping properties, is this the same with a Clipper? Has anyone any experience and suggestion for a surveyor? Any information would be helpful. Right now I am bordering on "frustrated".
Thanks
Ken

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We have a Tung Hwa 30' Clipper. I purchased it last September. With all Taiwan boats, you will need to look at how the decks were taken care of. Was the boat stored under cover? If not, we're the seams, bungs replaced and well kept? How about the upper deck, was it replaced? It seems to be the biggest culprit of water intrusion. As far as quality, these boats are 30+ years old and are still out there running on their first Lehman's...... Water intrusion has been the killer and should be carefully inspected when considering these boats.

What's the brand name/year of the boat you're looking at? Keep in mind that these single engine boats are not like your Rinker. It will be, in my opinion, a much greater learning curve when docking.

Good luck with your search.

The majority of trawlers are built in the far east.

Boating lifestyle changes with age and recreation time. The more time the slower you can go. Going from a fast boat to a boat that moves at a leisurely pace means needing more time to explore those distant places most of us dream of. Be careful when making a decision about changing boating goals. Your Rinker gave you the ability to cruise fast and far on a weekend, even though it was a plastic palace, it gave you the range. Kind of a destination to destination boat. You get there and you get off and do something come back and sleep, get going the next day and repeat. A trawler is your destination, The pleasure of a trawler is in the being on the trawler, the care of a trawler , the slower cruising, maybe even the ability to go much farther but over a great deal more time. Many trawlers never leave the dock because the owners can never find the window of time to go anywhere. I've boated all my life and I'm 68, my boats have run the gamut from very fast ski boats to very wet sail boats and now very comfortable long range cruisers. All boats have a place at a time in your life. In my opinion a 36'- 40 trawler, single or twin is a very easy boat to handle. As said all older boats have issues, coring and electrical are the biggies. Wood decks can be removed or repaired. Albins and CHB's are fairly simple boats that perform and handle well, there are many to choose from, find the best example you can find even if it means speeding more money for it.

I can't add any more than is already here.So welcome to the forum.

Steve,
Is this the book you recommmend?

The Boat Buyer's Guide to Motor Yachts and Trawlers: Includes Price Guides for 600 New and Used Boats 27 to 80 Feet Long [Paperback]

Ed McKnew
Ed McKnew (Author)

HIGH COTTON has no exterior wood so that's a big reduction in maintenance compared to some boats. It also seriously reduces the opportunity for water leaks from rain or spray.

I currently own a trawler built in the Chien Hwa yard in Tiawan. There is a yahoo group that will give a lot of information about these boats.

CHB : CHB boat owners and interested parties

There were many different companies that ordered boats from the yard to include Marine Trader , President, Present, and even a Kady Krogen or two.

oceano said:

Steve,
Is this the book you recommmend?

The Boat Buyer's Guide to Motor Yachts and Trawlers: Includes Price Guides for 600 New and Used Boats 27 to 80 Feet Long [Paperback]

Ed McKnew
Ed McKnew (Author)

Click to expand...

That is it.
Steve W

yes... the construction methods from the 80s Taiwan boats generally stink...If they were maintained well...chances are you should have a boat in good shape with plenty of life in her...if neglected...the boat will probably need some major surgery to bring her back to life...including Albins and MTs...inspectors be damned.

what is painful is... every model year...things and methods changed so much that the body of knowledge on these older boats is hit or miss. makes repairs that much more of a challenge.

Advice? If you buy a super well kept one you have a 50-50 chance of becoming a super handyman...if you buy one not in great shape...it's a 100 percent chance!!!!

Thanks Steve, I will order the book. Alelaide, The boat is a 30 ft Clipper. I am told the deck is solid and no core. Still I do understand that water under the teak can cause the screws to pull out from freezing. Is the house cored or molded fiberglass? Yes I understand the handling characteristics will be very different from my Rinker. Like anything practice, time, and careful planning will take care of that. I am estatic regarding the access to mechanical parts in all of the trawlers I have seen. They appear to be easy to maintaine compared to a boat with twin engine gas driven outdrive running gear. Web have been running at 6 knots to see if the speed reduction will be a problem. So far the quiet has been well recieved. We have the time. Boating for us is more about the process, the sea and the planning more than the destination.

Ken

kpinnn said:

Thanks Steve, I will order the book. Alelaide, The boat is a 30 ft Clipper. I am told the deck is solid and no core. Still I do understand that water under the teak can cause the screws to pull out from freezing. Is the house cored or molded fiberglass? Yes I understand the handling characteristics will be very different from my Rinker. Like anything practice, time, and careful planning will take care of that. I am estatic regarding the access to mechanical parts in all of the trawlers I have seen. They appear to be easy to maintaine compared to a boat with twin engine gas driven outdrive running gear. Web have been running at 6 knots to see if the speed reduction will be a problem. So far the quiet has been well recieved. We have the time. Boating for us is more about the process, the sea and the planning more than the destination.

Ken

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Hello Ken, If you are looking at an 80's 'Tung Hwa' Clipper. The decks (and the cabin) are fiberglass over wood core. Here is a link to an original brochure for the Clipper. Not an issue if your decks are sound and you continue to maintain them. Again, good luck in your search. The Clipper gets tons of compliments with its well designed interior and classic lines.

Adelaide, I find not many people know much about these boats or at least the people I am dealing with. The broker told me the deck was solid fiberglass and no core. It the core balsa or plywood. Read an article on some trawler site that was not very complimentary regarding the Tung Hwa boats. Did say they were a lot of boat for the money and that you never really knew what you got since production techniques continually changed. Aside from the construction how does the clipper handle in head seas, following seas, and beam seas? I am in an area known for rough seas. I also think the performance spec quoted to me are a bit optomistic. I was told 8 knot cruise at 1.5 gal per hour. My quess is more like 6 knots at 1.5 and maybe 8 at 2.5. What is your handling and fuel consumption experience?

Ken

Oh, I also read something about house or cabin made of wood and then covered with jell coat or fiberglass. Is this the situation on the clipper. Are all trrowlers made this way or are some solid fiberglass

Ken

Ken,

I live in the Puget Sound, which is protected from really rough seas. I also do most of my driving in the morning, when calm. In my limited experience, you will find that the Clipper is much better in rough seas than the Rinker you're used to. However, as with all of these Taiwan made boats, you will be turning into wakes and rolling quite a bit in rough seas. My boat is a 7.5 knot boat with the 80hp Lehman and 1.5gph. The interior construction is very good and the Hull is sound. I would buy my boat again in a heart beat. It's a wonderful 'cabin on the water' and economical to maintain/run.

To answer your last post, yes it is made that way as all the early 80's taiwan boats are.

psneeld said:

yes... the construction methods from the 80s Taiwan boats generally stink...

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That's just wrong...

Back then the hulls were stronger - the interior layouts were a masterpiece of space conservation - the engines ( mostly 6-cyl) were economical ; built to last and easy to fix - the Taiwanese wood crafting was second to none , and they were alot sexier than the plastic crap built today.

...sure they installed mild steel fuel tanks , but stainless tanks werent invented untill 1993

Bugmon said:

That's just wrong...

Back then the hulls were stronger - the interior layouts were a masterpiece of space conservation - the engines ( mostly 6-cyl) were economical ; built to last and easy to fix - the Taiwanese wood crafting was second to none , and they were alot sexier than the plastic crap built today.

...sure they installed mild steel fuel tanks , but stainless tanks werent invented untill 1993

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Agreed..... The wood work is amazing and something that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, if desired new today. Every brand has problems if not taken care of.

Bugmon said:

That's just wrong...

Back then the hulls were stronger - the interior layouts were a masterpiece of space conservation - the engines ( mostly 6-cyl) were economical ; built to last and easy to fix - the Taiwanese wood crafting was second to none , and they were alot sexier than the plastic crap built today.

...sure they installed mild steel fuel tanks , but stainless tanks werent invented untill 1993

Click to expand...

Oh yeah...lets see..

I'm discussing thick gel coats with dry laminates underneath that were thicker but not stronger than todays hulls or resistant to blistering like vinylester, piecemeal bridge decks and poured resin rather than solid core, wood trimmed windows notorious for leaking, the electrical systems were hit or miss, plywood houses with gel sprayed on, teak screwed directly into the deck coring...etc..etc...

AND YOU ARE SAYING THEY HAVE PRETTY WOOD WORK AND NICE LAYOUTS AND THAT EQUALS GOOD CONSTUCTION METHODS?????

Those methods must have been so good...because all have been changed since the 80's....

kpinnn said:

The broker told me the deck was solid fiberglass and no core.

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The one person you should absolutely never, ever trust is the broker. You must verify anything that a broker tells you.

psneeld said:

...etc..etc...

Click to expand...

At the risk of piling on, the metals used were in many cases suspect as well. Steel fuel tanks, steering materials, even some of the bronze castings. The really big one there is the possibility of having to replace fuel tanks.

refugio said:

At the risk of piling on, the metals used were in many cases suspect as well. Steel fuel tanks, steering materials, even some of the bronze castings. The really big one there is the possibility of having to replace fuel tanks.

Click to expand...

Pile on.......there's plenty of things that are wrong with the CONSTRUCTION methods....

I own one...am rebuilding one and would buy another if I don't hit the lotto first...

But to say they are built with GOOD construction methods for BOATs is misleading.

Yes to many good things about them...but the constuction methods ain't one of them...

May I suggest:

Visit Yachtworld advanced search. Type in Tollycraft, enter the lower and upper size you desire. Enjoy reviewing a great line of well constructed craft that were built in the USA; designed by Ed Monk Sr. and Jr. Tolly are some of the best production boats - - > Ever! IMHO...

Need I say more!!

Refugio, what is your boat? Other than the lack of a flybridge it has almost the perfect profile to me (i'd like the pilothouse just a little farther aft). She's a beaut, how about some specs.

We started much the same as you, with express cruisers. it took us a lot longer (25 years) to make the jump to a trawler. The last 4 or 5 years with our Bayliner 32' Avanti were spent at 8 kts because that where our cruising friends with full displacement and semi displacement hull would run. We got used to the slower speed and decided to make the move. i would suggest running your Rinker at 8kts for a few hours at a time and make sure your ok at slow speeds.
By the way ours is a Mainship; American made , and there are a lot of them out there. Early 34's from 1978 till 82 (i think) some early 36's and 40's with aft cabins, then in 97 (i think) they started with a 35 that became a 39 (same boat) then a 40, a new 34 and a 43. The early 34's are often discussed in magazines as one of the most successful powerboat designs ever made (along with the Bertram 28)
John

Still looking at the clipper. Confirmed the house is wood fiberglass covered. Is that standard construction and is it a problem to keep moisture out of the core or is it actually a sandwiched core. If inside finish work were removed would I see plywood?

Ken

Greetings,
Mr. kp. While I can't comment on the vessel you're considering specifically, I do have experience with plywood houses covered in FRP. This construction technique is perfectly fine as long as the integrity of the covering and where it joins to other elements of the vessel (windows, doors and deck) is strictly maintained as watertight. This is the problem. Maintaining water tightness.
If water penetrates and wets the plywood, one has the potential of severe structural damage which could be cost prohibitive to repair on an older vessel.
EVERY vessel that I'm aware of needs maintenance at some point in it's life to renew caulking and sealants to preserve water tightness. If the vessel you're interested in has had regular upkeep and maintenance there should be minimum water intrusion and subsequent related damage. Keep the water on the outside where it belongs.