Xantrex

ksanders said:

This is too funny.

I had a 10 year old Pro Mariner charger go bad, so I decided to get the new Charles 40 amp unit.

Wouldn't have a pro mariner (well, just kidding)

The Charles is for the engine and gen batteries and is a backup to the Xantrex.

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What I wonder, I see everybody talking about using inverters to power your boats, I'm assuming that includes your refers? Several of the inverter models mentioned are "modified sine wave." I read my owners manual for my fridge and the owners manual on two of the mentioned inverters, both say don't power refers with Modified Sine Inverters?

Has anyone had a refer fail since installing your Mod Sine Inverter?
LB

Coot has a Victron (blue power). No complaints to date.

Hmmm!!

Do you suppose maybe that's because yours is a "True Sine Wave" inverter???

I am told that Backwoods Solar Electric Systems will repair Xantrex equipment.I think they are certified Xantrex repair facility.Not 100% on that.

Edelweiss said:

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What I wonder, I see everybody talking about using inverters to power your boats, I'm assuming that includes your refers? Several of the inverter models mentioned are "modified sine wave." I read my owners manual for my fridge and the owners manual on two of the mentioned inverters, both say don't power refers with Modified Sine Inverters?

Has anyone had a refer fail since installing your Mod Sine Inverter?
LB

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We run full sine wave inverters.

We keep the fridges on DC, we just keep the AC breakers off. THe icemaker is AC.

ksanders said:

We run full sine wave inverters.

We keep the fridges on DC, we just keep the AC breakers off. THe icemaker is AC.

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You shouldn't have a problem with the pure sine wave inverter. If your boat refer is AC/DC it is probably running on an pure sine inverter when in DC mode already.

The issue is with the cheaper "modified" sine wave inverters running an asynchronous or induction motor, which are common in kitchen appliances. "Modified" sine wave cycles like pure A/C but the wave is square which only approximates AC cycling.

It produces a lot of harmonic distortion, excessive heat and only around 75% of the rated performance. Many switching power supplies can filter some of it out, but it can reek havoc on induction motors.

It may even seem to work ok on some appliances, but your dancing with the devil!!

LB

Edelweiss said:

Hmmm!!

Do you suppose maybe that's because yours is a "True Sine Wave" inverter???

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Don't know. I'm almost clueless around electricity.

Edelweiss said:

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What I wonder, I see everybody talking about using inverters to power your boats, I'm assuming that includes your refers? Several of the inverter models mentioned are "modified sine wave." I read my owners manual for my fridge and the owners manual on two of the mentioned inverters, both say don't power refers with Modified Sine Inverters?

Has anyone had a refer fail since installing your Mod Sine Inverter?
LB

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My refrigerator is an AC/DC model so it takes care of its own power.

The microwave on my previous boat was fine with a modified sinewave inverter. The original microwave on HIGH COTTON was not. It would sometimes cook and sometimes not. You could tell by the sound.

I replaced it and the replacement works on the inverter but it makes a louder sound and cooks a little slower than on shore power. Nothing we can't live with.

Funny how people keep posting right after they say take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt...

Shows where the egos are...

The best advice I've read on inverters are go cheap...consider them a throwaway and carry a spare so the cruise will go on...

Battery chargers aren't far behind..every brand and every model has had issues or complaints from someone.

Electrical systems are so misunderstood by the average boater that this is one area where opinions and not facts abound!!!

Although there is some redundancy and extra expense, weight, and wiring, having seperate a seperate inverter and charger means they are unlikely to fail at the same time. It also makes repair or replacement less expensive.

When we are talking about a piece of equipment that can interrupt a schedule or damage other components, quality and reliability are the way to go. This is not the place to "cheap out".

rwidman said:

Although there is some redundancy and extra expense, weight, and wiring, having seperate a seperate inverter and charger means they are unlikely to fail at the same time. It also makes repair or replacement less expensive.

When we are talking about a piece of equipment that can interrupt a schedule or damage other components, quality and reliability are the way to go. This is not the place to "cheap out".

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Based on the number of inverter problems voiced...both on the docks and internet...the other way of going (the cheap way out) seems to be gaining favor in many circles I frequent.

Man I am worried now. I have had a Xantrex charger and a link 2000 on my boat for years.

Will I soon reach critical volicity and both crap out.

Worried in Alaska.

skipperdude said:

Man I am worried now. I have had a Xantrex charger and a link 2000 on my boat for years.

Will I soon reach critical volicity and both crap out.

Worried in Alaska.

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Your days (and mine) are numbered, SD. I'm shopping for more cheap electrical crap as I speak!

I'm gonna try out this cheap used college dorm fridge on my cheap modified sine wave Xantrex inverter this weekend. I'm just hoping the whole boat doesn't blow up on me!!

(I pay for 8 years of University of California college education for my daughters and all I get is this piece of crap refrigerator!!)

FlyWright said:

I pay for 8 years of University of California college education for my daughters and all I get is this piece of crap refrigerator!!

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The most I can get out of my kids in return at this point is the promise of a turbo charged wheelchair sometime in the indefinite future.

Did your daughters at least fill the reefer with something interesting?

Congradulations Your daughters got into UC

FlyWright said:

Your days (and mine) are numbered, SD. I'm shopping for more cheap electrical crap as I speak!

I'm gonna try out this cheap used college dorm fridge on my cheap modified sine wave Xantrex inverter this weekend. I'm just hoping the whole boat doesn't blow up on me!!

(I pay for 8 years of University of California college education for my daughters and all I get is this piece of crap refrigerator!!)

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Did they graduate? and if they did are they planning on spending more of your boat treasure on school?

i had a Xantrex MS2000 pure sign wave inverter charger. It worked great until a cooling fan failed. I was told by a fairly rude service tech that my expensive inverter was a throw away inverter and they did not support it with parts. The throw away inverter was smart enough to know that the fan had failed and shut it self down. This is a problem with Xantrex as all circuits that are supplied by the inverter will not not work except through a working inverter. The bottom line was I located a independent service tech and he was able to replace the pancake fan with a generic fan and the unit has been working since. When I replaced the inverter on my new boat I went with Magnum as it was recomended by several service centers I had called trying to get that Xantrex repaired. If the service had been better on my two year old Xantrex inverter had been better they might have got my next business. The MS2000 looked to be well built when I took it apart trouble shooting it. However their service department was terrible at returning calls and Emails and rude to boot. It turns out after many calls to nowhere they informed me I could by a warranty replacement at a discount. On a two year old unit that had a cooling fan fail, I feel they should have given me new one with apologies for the labor cost to remove the old one and install the new one. At that time their service department was their worst enemy. Hopefully that has changed. When I was trying to get that unit fixed the service guy's were getting the same lousy treatment from Xantrex.

I'm on my THIRD, count them, third Xantrex truecharge 2 charger in less than one year. Just a straight charger, not inverter. They've replaced them all on warranty but this just sucks. Were I in the market, or rather, when I am in the market after this one craps out, I'll go elsewhere.

(I pay for 8 years of University of California college education for my daughters and all I get is this piece of crap refrigerator!!)

Hahaha! My boy starts CalPoly in a couple of weeks and I told him I'm good for 4.5 years and then he is on his own, sooner if he doesn't make grades. Thank god my parents were so happy to have me out of the house they didn't care about my grades......

Baggiolini said:

I'm on my THIRD, count them, third Xantrex truecharge 2 charger in less than one year. Just a straight charger, not inverter. They've replaced them all on warranty but this just sucks. Were I in the market, or rather, when I am in the market after this one craps out, I'll go elsewhere.

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sorry...got carried away thinking inverters...

Pro Mariner, Xantrex and Guest all compete at the low end of the price range for marine battery chargers. They all have a UL marine approval but not an ABS approval.
Newmar and Charles compete at the high end of the price range. They both have ABS approval. I guess the ABS approval indicates a higher level of quality and reliability.
Is anyone familiar with ABS requirements vs UL Marine?

HopCar said:

Pro Mariner, Xantrex and Guest all compete at the low end of the price range for marine battery chargers. They all have a UL marine approval but not an ABS approval.
Newmar and Charles compete at the high end of the price range. They both have ABS approval. I guess the ABS approval indicates a higher level of quality and reliability.
Is anyone familiar with ABS requirements vs UL Marine?

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American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) - Go to their website and they explain it pretty well. It's more of an international regulatory body for setting standards of international commercial maritime vessels and off shore facilities worldwide.

Visit their website at: ABS

They also talk about acceptance of certifications from labs listed by both, the Department of Labor and US Coast Guard, both of whom recognize Underwriters Laboratory (UL) approval for their certifications.

Their Mission Statement:

Setting Standards of Excellence

The responsibility of the classification society is to verify that marine vessels and offshore structures comply with Rules that the society has established for design, construction and periodic survey. Etc. Etc.

Scary said:

Did they graduate? and if they did are they planning on spending more of your boat treasure on school?

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#1 graduated UC Davis with dual majors in 2011. #2 is on track to graduate from UC Santa Cruz in one year with double major. They were each told that they had 4.0 years to complete college on my ticket...summer school, study abroad, whatever. But they knew that they would be on their own after 4.0 years, so they kept their noses to the grindstone and made the best of every class credit. #1 even finished one quarter shy of 4.0 years.

No more boat funds will be needed for their educations, so I'm looking at retirement before the year is out.

Heavy Duty

FlyWright said:

#1 graduated UC Davis with dual majors in 2011. #2 is on track to graduate from UC Santa Cruz in one year with double major. They were each told that they had 4.0 years to complete college on my ticket...summer school, study abroad, whatever. But they knew that they would be on their own after 4.0 years, so they kept their noses to the grindstone and made the best of every class credit. #1 even finished one quarter shy of 4.0 years.

No more boat funds will be needed for their educations, so I'm looking at retirement before the year is out.

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Sounds like a success story, none of those schools are easy to get into. My daughter graduated last year from Berkeley, now working full time at Davis Institute for Re-genitive Medicine and back to school next year hopefully on their dime for her PHD.

No more boat funds will be needed for their educations, so I'm looking at retirement before the year is out.[/QUOTE]

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Congratulations Al !! (I'm not sure if that is for getting them through school or escaping to retirement, but job well done.)

I finally got my son through this last year, two majors and his masters. It took him 7 years and one quarter, I thought he was going to become a professional student. Unfortunately, the university life style can become addictive and for some, makes it difficult to move on. But I shouldn't complain, he got into the Student Teaching program his junior year and much of his tuition was funded by the University. (I love it when a plan comes together!! )

Me too!! Retiring next June 2013. Enjoy your retirement!!
Larry B

Edelweiss said:

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Right on !!
I love my Xantrex!! Best thing I ever did was replace my old charger with a 40 amp Xantrex, on the advice of two of my dock mates. I went from 5 - 6 years on a set of 4-d / 8-d flooded cell batteries, to 11 years. Once a year I add 2 oz distilled water per cell. The Xantrex monitors and automatically maintains the batteries 24-7, bringing each bank to a full charge on a scheduled 21 day cycle.

IMHO, after more than 10 years would I try to have it repaired if it dies? Would you ask or expect HP or Dell to fix your 10 year old home computer when it fails?? No, if it should fail in the future I will replace it with another Xantrex model.
Larry B

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This is such a typical response any time these discussions come up. I hear over and over how "my 10, 15, 20 year old model has worked flawlessly and I love it. But the truth is, especially with Xantrex, the product you buy today is in no way the quality of the product made even 5 years ago, although 5 years ago they weren't so great either. I have been a service tech for over 35 years and have installed too many Xantex products. What they make today is terrible and you may get the one in 50 that works fine, especially if you use it occasionally. But the failure rate is indeed much higher that any other like manufacturer and the customer service is the worst that I have encountered from any other manufacturer. And that is my opinion based on installing hundreds of these units and not just one or two. YOU CAN NOT compare them today with products produced in the past. They do sell one good product, but they don't manufacture it. That's the Eco Charger. Chuck

Edelweiss said:

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Right on !!
I love my Xantrex!! Best thing I ever did was replace my old charger with a 40 amp Xantrex, on the advice of two of my dock mates. I went from 5 - 6 years on a set of 4-d / 8-d flooded cell batteries, to 11 years. Once a year I add 2 oz distilled water per cell. The Xantrex monitors and automatically maintains the batteries 24-7, bringing each bank to a full charge on a scheduled 21 day cycle.

IMHO, after more than 10 years would I try to have it repaired if it dies? Would you ask or expect HP or Dell to fix your 10 year old home computer when it fails?? No, if it should fail in the future I will replace it with another Xantrex model.
Larry B

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That's not a fair comparison because technology changes so rapidly in the computer field. A better comparison would be to a refrigerator, washer, dryer, etc.

I would expect to be able to have these appliances repaired after ten years.

In the case of my charger, as I stated in my previous post, Xantrex would not supply parts or even a schematic to it's own authorized repair person. Many of these parts are sytandard electronic items so with a schematic, a $400 charger would not have ended up in the landfill.

At least the guy didn't charge me for the diagnosis.

Well, I just returned from a great weekend on the delta with my piece o' crap Xantrex hooked up to my poc fridge. Pineapple Girl (and Pineapple Guy) stood by at an anchor rode's length to help consume any warming beer but they went home thirsty.

The fridge ran great on the inverter and drew very little power. After a day on the hook, we had consumed a total of 106 AH with 2 fridges and lighting, including me leaving the er lights on all day.

So I'm keeping the fridge and Xantrex. Giggitoni, better plan to bring more beer for the 4th. At this point, it doesn't look like your be getting any of my warm cast offs.

Thanks Scary and Edelweis. Obviously I'm proud of them both. They both worked hard to accomplished their goals. re: retirement, the more time I spend on the boat, the less I'm interested in working longer.

Wow!! Al that's pretty impressive. I have an apartment sized refer built in on my flybridge. We only keep beer in it and I never use it away from the dock, cuzz it's AC only.

Maybe I will have to buy one of those cheap piece of crap Xantrex inverters to run it?? What size is your poc inverter?? Wouldn't you think a Xantrex XPower 1000 watt would be enough to power a small fridg? WMJ marine wants $129 for it. If it ruines that fridg, it wouldn't be much of a loss!!

But then all my sailboater friends will want to come over and drink my beer!! Funny thing about them, I don't really care much for beer, but you go to their boats and they all drink Rainier and Miller Draft (I think they must of stopped making Buckhorn.) So I buy their brand for them, as well as some Corona for me and put it in the Fridg. Which do you think they drink when they're on my boat?

Yeah, I'm with you there. I don't know why I didn't pull-the-plug this June. That was not good thinking on my part !!

Larry B

FlyWright said:

............ The fridge ran great on the inverter and drew very little power. After a day on the hook, we had consumed a total of 106 AH with 2 fridges and lighting, including me leaving the er lights on all day..

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How do you measure the amp hours used?

FlyWright said:

The fridge ran great on the inverter and drew very little power. After a day on the hook, we had consumed a total of 106 AH with 2 fridges and lighting, including me leaving the er lights on all day.

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Good data! That's very encouraging. I should have more faith in my batt bank and inverter & charger. Maybe an "at dock" test for a few days is in order. My Xantrex gear seems to work fine. It's only 2 years so far, but, so-far-so-good.