sanitary pump lock

Trying to pass the Coastguard safety check and I know they will want to see that I have the system set and locked so that no sanitary waste can be pumped out overboard. I found the tank, I see all sorts of plumbing but for the world of me I am not able to find a way to lock the system. Does anyone have a clue or better yet some pictures as to what you did to comply with the coasties. My boat is a 88 Island Gypsy 36.
Some time ago befor my hard drive went south, I communicated with a fellow that was going to check on IG some step plates from somebody in Australia. I have lost all email communication that I saved. So if your out there and have some plates or a source, please contact me.
Peter
Out of the Blue

Peter. It can be "locked" by simply using a plastic wire tie to hold it in the closed position. But an excellent method that won't get challenge is to remove the handle once you put them in the proper position. It usually only means you have to remove a single screw or a nut on the thru-hull and take the handle off completely. Chuck

My AT came with a key lock at the helm so that the pump can't be run without it. I don't know if this is considered a legitimate form of being "locked". I keep the key hidden. If I'm stopped, I guess I'll find out.

Larry, when you say pump, do you mean an overboard discharge pump? I think Pete may be referring to the overboard/holding tank valve and overboard discharge thru-hull valve. Chuck

sunvale1 said:

My boat is a 88 Island Gypsy 36.
Some time ago befor my hard drive went south, I communicated with a fellow that was going to check on IG some step plates from somebody in Australia. I have lost all email communication that I saved. So if your out there and have some plates or a source, please contact me.
Peter
Out of the Blue

Click to expand...

Mark Halvorsen had the brokerage at Bobbin Head Sydney, it is no longer the Halvorsen base and someone else runs the brokerage.I think Mark still operates from home,i see the occasional boat for sale on "Boatpoint.com.au". You could try his website "halvorsenboatsales.com.au". I bought some badges from him a year ago. I doubt spare parts are generally available,but Mark is your best chance. BruceK, Sydney Australia.
PS. Not sure what you mean by "step plates", but I made some step edging or nosing for a previous non IG boat out of aluminum right angle extrusion I bought at the hardware store.

sunvale1 said:

Trying to pass the Coastguard safety check and I know they will want to see that I have the system set and locked so that no sanitary waste can be pumped out overboard. I found the tank, I see all sorts of plumbing but for the world of me I am not able to find a way to lock the system. Does anyone have a clue or better yet some pictures as to what you did to comply with the coasties. My boat is a 88 Island Gypsy 36.
Some time ago befor my hard drive went south, I communicated with a fellow that was going to check on IG some step plates from somebody in Australia. I have lost all email communication that I saved. So if your out there and have some plates or a source, please contact me.
Peter
Out of the Blue

Click to expand...

Sunvale, if you will open this discussion under "Other Trawler Systems", I think you will get more responses.

I will put a response under that category.

Yes, I'm referring to an overboard discharge pump. You can disable the ability to discharge waste overboard by having a keyed switch for the pump. That seems to be equivalent to a physical lock on the through hull valve. Doesn't it?

Great Laker, I think Peggie Hall suggested that very method. It sounds good to me and I plan to do it on my boat. A simple on / off ignition key should work fine if it will carry the amp load of the pump. If it won't, you'd need to add a solenoid to the system.

Oops,now there are two threads running with the same name. BruceK

Great Laker said:

Yes, I'm referring to an overboard discharge pump. You can disable the ability to discharge waste overboard by having a keyed switch for the pump. That seems to be equivalent to a physical lock on the through hull valve. Doesn't it?

Click to expand...

I think so too... but it's too complicated for government inspectors to follow your specific system...so they make it easy on themselves.....they ONLY check the overboard thru-hull and IT has to be disabled by one of the common methods (wire tie, remove handle, etc).

Here..make it easy on yourself...take an old, throwaway seacock and caulk it down to a convenient part of the hull (no hole), take the handle off, put a short length of hose to nowhere on it and put a big red tag on it it saying "sewage discharge - don't open".

Here are the regs:

Y valve lockouts

(b) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge
of treated or untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental
Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3 or 140.4, the operator must secure
each Type I or Type II device in a manner which prevents discharge of
treated or untreated sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device
include--
(1) Closing the seacock and removing the handle;
(2) Padlocking the seacock in the closed position;
(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold the seacock in the
closed position; or
(4) Locking the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a
padlock or door handle key lock.
(c) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge
of untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency
under 40 CFR 140.3, the operator must secure each Type III device in a
manner which prevents discharge of sewage. Acceptable methods of
securing the device include--
(1) Closing each valve leading to an overboard discharge and
removing the handle;
(2) Padlocking each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the
closed position; or
(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an
overboard discharge in the closed position.

[CGH 95-028, 62 FR 51194, Sept. 30, 1997]


That all being said,there is no way to "lock" my overboard discharge seacock closed. If it's closed, the handle is parallel to the hull and there is nothing to lock it to. I guess I could epoxy a metal pad eye there, but never have. The handle can't be removed. I have no Y valve, since I have two discharges, one to the deck pumpout and one to the overboard discharge. I do have a keyed lock to operate the pump for overboard. To actually discharge, I have to turn on a breaker, open the seacock, and turn on the pump with the keyed lock. Even though this is not specifically approved in the list above, every inspection I've had always passes, although they seem to have to think about it a bit.

Keith said:

Here are the regs:

Y valve lockouts

(b) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge
of treated or untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental
Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3 or 140.4, the operator must secure
each Type I or Type II device in a manner which prevents discharge of
treated or untreated sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device
include--
(1) Closing the seacock and removing the handle;
(2) Padlocking the seacock in the closed position;
(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold the seacock in the
closed position; or
(4) Locking the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a
padlock or door handle key lock.
(c) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge
of untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency
under 40 CFR 140.3, the operator must secure each Type III device in a
manner which prevents discharge of sewage. Acceptable methods of
securing the device include--
(1) Closing each valve leading to an overboard discharge and
removing the handle;
(2) Padlocking each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the
closed position; or
(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an
overboard discharge in the closed position.

[CGH 95-028, 62 FR 51194, Sept. 30, 1997]


That all being said,there is no way to "lock" my overboard discharge seacock closed. If it's closed, the handle is parallel to the hull and there is nothing to lock it to. I guess I could epoxy a metal pad eye there, but never have. The handle can't be removed. I have no Y valve, since I have two discharges, one to the deck pumpout and one to the overboard discharge. I do have a keyed lock to operate the pump for overboard. To actually discharge, I have to turn on a breaker, open the seacock, and turn on the pump with the keyed lock. Even though this is not specifically approved in the list above, every inspection I've had always passes, although they seem to have to think about it a bit.

Click to expand...

This is encourging as I've only heard about the arguments that the boater didn't win.

All you need is a way to stop someone from opening the valve by hand.It must use a tool or key to be able to open the valve.Removing the handle is a no no and the USCG or LEO can make life miserable for you.

Shop around for these.Prices vary widely.

Brady® One-Piece Ball Valve Lock-Outs



V-SAFE® Gate Valve Lockout at New Pig | LCK116

why is removing the handle a no no?

it's one of the preferred and legal methods...

psneeld said:

why is removing the handle a no no?

it's one of the preferred and legal methods...

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You are probably correct.I am going based on what my DNR rep told me.They cover boat regs here in SC.

Removing the handle is the number one recommended method in the Code of Federal Regulations. That's da book.

Keith said:

Removing the handle is the number one recommended method in the Code of Federal Regulations. That's da book.

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It seems I have been miss guided.Could you please link the info so I can review it?

I just posted the excerpt from the CFR's, complete with #. You can find it.

Keith said:

I just posted the excerpt from the CFR's, complete with #. You can find it.

Click to expand...

I go back and look.Thanks.

From Kieth:

Acceptable methods of securing the device
include--
(1) Closing the seacock and removing the handle;
(2) Padlocking the seacock in the closed position;
(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold the seacock in the
closed position; or
(4) Locking the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a
padlock or door handle key lock.

Because it says "include--" that means there may be others that are acceptable. So you have to look at the intent of the rule to measure other approaches.

A keyed macerator pump is no different in my opinion than a keyed lock on the toilet door. Either can be successful if the Capt. hides and controls the key, or defeated if not.

One big problem with all this is that I have no seacock with a hose coming from the pump. There is no discharge seacock that would indicate a dump for the sanitary water. I positive the coasties and the Sheriff will take that for an answer.

I installed a "Whale" after it ws discovered my boat never had a Y gate to secure discharges. I simply put a Zip tie on the macerator side. Think I am good to go?

(b) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge
of treated or untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental
Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3 or 140.4, the operator must secure
each Type I or Type II device in a manner which prevents discharge of
treated or untreated sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device
include--
(1) Closing the seacock and removing the handle;
(2) Padlocking the seacock in the closed position;
(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold the seacock in the
closed position; or
(4) Locking the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a
padlock or door handle key lock.
_____________________________________

Questions?
I believe this discussion is mostly about Y valves and discharge of raw sewage.

But what about section B above (CFR 140,3) for treated MSD discharge? For boats operated in areas where MSD discharge is not prohibited, is a method of stopping the treated discharge required?

Example:
In Puget Sound there are some areas (marinas mostly) which have no discharge of treated affluent requirements. Are these EPA requirements or local authority?

Does the Coast Guard expect you to have a lockout device on your Type 1 or 11 MSD discharge in case you should venture into one of these areas or marinas? Does anyone know if there a list of restricted areas?

I've asked this question to the CG Aux. people several times at different events and either get a "I don't know" or a different conflicting answer each time.

Your opinions gentlemen???

Yes, you have to have a way to lock out the treated effluent in so-called "no discharge zones". These are set by the Federal gummit and you can see the list at No Discharge Zones by State | Vessel Water Discharge | US EPA. There is a lot of other info at that site.

Keith said:

Yes, you have to have a way to lock out the treated effluent in so-called "no discharge zones". These are set by the Federal gummit and you can see the list at No Discharge Zones by State | Vessel Water Discharge | US EPA. There is a lot of other info at that site.

Click to expand...

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Keith
Thanks for the site link. However it doesn't show any "no discharge zones" for the state of Washington and Alaska?

So I'm guessing that answers part of the question, marina no discharge zones must be local jurisdictions authority.

But how about the rest of the question?

Does the Coast Guard require you to have a lockout device on your Type 11 MSD when operating in Washington or Alaska since there are no EPA recognized NDZ's? (It wasn't manufactured with a valve, just a toggle switch to disable the automatic pump.) I'm looking for a CFR or Coast Guard regulation governing type 2 MSD?

Edelweiss said:

---------------------------------------------------
Keith
Thanks for the site link. However it doesn't show any "no discharge zones" for the state of Washington and Alaska?

So I'm guessing that answers part of the question, marina no discharge zones must be local jurisdictions authority.

But how about the rest of the question?

Does the Coast Guard require you to have a lockout device on your Type 11 MSD when operating in Washington or Alaska since there are no EPA recognized NDZ's? (It wasn't manufactured with a valve, just a toggle switch to disable the automatic pump.) I'm looking for a CFR or Coast Guard regulation governing type 2 MSD?

Click to expand...

Does post 11 help?