Fuel Crisis boat trend

My thoughts exactly. It's a learned behavior though. It's taking some effort on my part too (serious change in my paradigms). I have a trip planned for tomorrow as a matter of fact. I have no deadline to get there... I have no idea when I will single up lines or what direction I'm going.

I'll worry about that while the engines are warming up and AFTER the coffee is brewed. The wife should have the fresh hot danish rols done soon after we depart though. beyond that... it's a boat ride. I want it to last as long as possible.

I am a Program Manager by day. I live and die by schedules, deadlines and commitments. I choose earn my living doing that... I choose not to live like that.

Playing the Devil's advocate

There are many ways to use a boat. "Destination boating" requires weather windows between destinations for comfortable passages. It also sometimes requires top end speed to shorten those weather windows depending upon the destinations.

Recession or not the manufacturers are selling new boats to folks with the disposable income to afford them. Those folks for the most part are demanding high horsepower engines capable of faster top end speeds. Even at $4+/gallon one can buy a lot of fuel for the price difference between a new Grand Banks and a new Nordhaven.

Apples and Oranges? Perhaps? But the buyers of new boats cast their vote with their check book. Many folks in the 1960's and 70's never thought Grand Banks would make 30+ knot boats.

Today's new boats are tomorrows used boats.

ksanders said:

Exactly!

The one thing in this world you can not get more of is time!

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So why waste it plodding along at eight knots? There are too many things to see and do in life than spending it looking at the same patch of water for an hour as you creep along. Life's too short to go slow, that's my philosophy. We have a slow boat by budget, not by preference.

We just got back from doing a project in China. Next it's Australia. Then the Middle East. Then China again. That's my idea of a good use of time. Not watching the paint dry at eight knots.

Marin said:

So why waste it plodding along at eight knots? There are too many things to see and do in life than spending it looking at the same patch of water for an hour as you creep along. Life's too short to go slow, that's my philosophy. We have a slow boat by budget, not by preference.

We just got back from doing a project in China. Next it's Australia. Then the Middle East. Then China again. That's my idea of a good use of time. Not watching the paint dry at eight knots.

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OK, sell your boat. Buy a smaller one thast goes faster.

Marin said:

We just got back from doing a project in China. Next it's Australia. Then the Middle East. Then China again. That's my idea of a good use of time. Not watching the paint dry at eight knots.

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Been there... and there... and there MANY times and back there again...

I'd rather be plodding along at 8 knots. I'll be thinking of ya.

55 mph on a 75 mph speed limit highway and probably in the left lane too. I somtimes wonder why people with no place to go don't just stay home.

Bob

BobH said:

I sometimes wonder why people with no place to go don't just stay home.

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We're going the same place you are... just enjoying the trip.

It's about the journey... not the destination.

ksanders said:

OK, sell your boat. Buy a smaller one thast goes faster.

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Can't do what we want to do in a smaller boat. The solution is the same size boat that goes a LOT faster. But we have more interesting things to do wth the money that would take so for now we put up with oozing along in the GB, but just barely.

BobH said:

55 mph on a 75 mph speed limit highway and probably in the left lane too. I somtimes wonder why people with no place to go don't just stay home.

Bob

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You guys are happy being in a hurry to get somewhere else. I'm happy where I am. And by the way, I'm always in the 'right' lane.

SomeSailor said:

It's about the journey... not the destination.

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I agree with this part but the definition of " journey" does not include a speed limit. I dare say those of us who like to go fast enjoy the journey every bit as much as those who like their progress measured in inches per hour.

jeffnick said:

You guys are happy being in a hurry to get somewhere else. I'm happy where I am. .

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We need more people like this because there would then be less people cluttering up the places we like to go.

Marin said:

But we have more interesting things to do wth the money that would take so for now we put up with oozing along in the GB, but just barely.

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You sound absolutely miserable with your trawler.

As everyone knows, boats are compromises. You give and you get. Now, if there was a fast Selene, that would be something.

You give up speed for economy and comfort. You give up some economy and comfort for speed. Just because your boat does not do it all (very few do), doesn't necessarily mean you are miserable with your boat. It just means at the time you valued somethings over others.

Have you noticed the speeds that Grand Banks models can attain today?

Marin said:

Can't do what we want to do in a smaller boat. The solution is the same size boat that goes a LOT faster. But we have more interesting things to do wth the money that would take so for now we put up with oozing along in the GB, but just barely.

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Marin - Although I recall your feelings about boat designs, and, that Tolly ain't one of your faves! Here’s An Affordable Compromise Suggestion:

1. Purchase a 34 to 45 foot planing hull, tri cabin (sun deck) Tollycraft that was well cared for yet requires repowering and equipment upgrading (should be quite affordable when located)

2. Put in two high class, high HP, high torque diesels

3. Sell your beloved (but slow moving) GB

4. Cruise at some 25 knots and top out at around 29 to 31 knots

5. Still be able to cruise affordably at hull speed if desired

If you like to... get there quickly, with safety, and enjoy the Tolly comfort as well as its minimal upkeep requirements.

See... I do contemplate thoughtful items about ya!

Art said:

Marin - Although I recall your feelings about boat designs, and, that Tolly ain't one of your faves! Here’s An Affordable Compromise Suggestion:

1. Purchase a 34 to 45 foot planing hull, tri cabin (sun deck) Tollycraft that was well cared for yet requires repowering and equipment upgrading (should be quite affordable when located)

2. Put in two high class, high HP, high torque diesels

3. Sell your beloved (but slow moving) GB

4. Cruise at some 25 knots and top out at around 29 to 31 knots

5. Still be able to cruise affordably at hull speed if desired

If desired you will get there quickly, with safety, and enjoy the Tolly comfort as well as its minimal upkeep requirements.

See... I do contemplate thoughtful items about ya!

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Two reman 330 Cummins diesels will run around $50K installed.

That might affect the ole boat budget.

As long as I can keep up with this marine mammal, I'm happy.

Getting there is half the fun. Just enjoy it,at hull speed.
I see US oil prices in the $80-85 a barrel range,down on what it was,shouldn`t that bring down the diesel price?
Australia is geared to the Tapis (Singapore) price,always above the US one.
Problem is,falling commodity prices, like oil,don`t always say good things about the economy. BruceK

Moonstruck said:

Have you noticed the speeds that Grand Banks models can attain today?

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Yes I have, even more startling is seeing how fast the new Nordhaven sister company boats are going to be. PAE is branching out and gaining speed much like Grand Banks did.

http://www.lanzaroteyachts.com/

Art said:

Marin - Although I recall your feelings about boat designs, and, that Tolly ain't one of your faves! Here’s An Affordable Compromise Suggestion:

1. Purchase a 34 to 45 foot planing hull, tri cabin (sun deck) Tollycraft

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While Tollycrafts are very well made boats and are excellent values for the type of people who like that kind of design, they are pretty much right at the bottom of the list of boats we would ever consider were we to decide to replace our current boat. In addition to quality and configuration, aesthetics are a significant factor in determining what we like, and Tolly's don't have any in our opinions.

The GB is miserably slow but it's built like a tank, and the 73-74 hull quality is something you simply don't get anymore in a production boat (thanks to the guy who built them).

SomeSailor said:

You sound absolutely miserable with your trawler.

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Only with the speed, which is pretty pathetic. An option we are toying with is an overhaul of our boat including replacing the engines and generator. Should we do this, we will go with somewhat more powerful, current-generation diesels which would give us a few more knots of speed. The hull is capable of it, our current engines are not.

If we decide against this option but still decide to upgrade our boat we would move to a newer and much faster pilothouse cruiser, preferably a Fleming or a newer, much-higher-powered GB model.

Actually, for a two-person boat Carey's custom lobsterboat is ideal in my view. Capable of cruising 15 knots or so, it has an outstanding hull design and wonderful aesthetics. But even though when we decided to get a diesel cruiser we didn't care if it had one or two engines, the past fourteen years have convinced us that that for us, twin engines is the only way we will go (unless I can get a boat with three of them). So that rules out the lobsterboat even though we love the design and its capabilities.

My boat before this one was a 34' Mainship Pilot model. It was a single 370hp Yanmar diesel with a bow thruster. It could easily cruise a 16-17 knots at about 2 mpg. It was great for a cruising couple or a couple with small kids. The jump seats in the cockpit would make two single berths.

She handled well, and was comfortable. What we didn't like about it was the wet head (no stall shower), and little space for another couple along. The speed was good, and I loved the keel and skeg underneath.

Lobster style boats usually have a fine entry that is great in head seas. The square transom and flat aft sections can make them a handful in following seas. The keel does add directional stability, but don't get it perpendicular to the current in a tight situation.

All in all a great boat.

Marin said:

While Tollycrafts are very well made boats and are excellent values for the type of people who like that kind of design, they are pretty much right at the bottom of the list of boats we would ever consider were we to decide to replace our current boat. In addition to quality and configuration, aesthetics are a significant factor in determining what we like, and Tolly's don't have any in our opinions.

The GB is miserably slow but it's built like a tank, and the 73-74 hull quality is something you simply don't get anymore in a production boat (thanks to the guy who built them).

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Marin – Thank you for reply to my suggestion for assisting your faster-craft wishes. GB aesthetics look stodgy to us - In Our Opinion!

With no speaking between you and I it would be interesting to place our boats berth to berth with an hour of you getting on my Tolly for inspection and me on your GB for inspection. Then we could silently pass each other (with a nod if we liked to) on main dock and board our own boats for prompt departure – in different directions, of course. That exercise would give us at least a few months of intense forum banter as to whose boat is better built, or more comfortable, or portends best sea keeping abilities... and for what reasons.

The need for silence between you and I in person is self evident... as per interactions on most of our previous forum "debates".

Art said:

Marin – Thank you for reply to my suggestion for assisting your faster-craft wishes. GB aesthetics look stodgy to us - In Our Opinion!

With no speaking between you and I it would be interesting to place our boats berth to berth with an hour of you getting on my Tolly for inspection and me on your GB for inspection.

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I think GBs are a bit stodgy, too. They are not our favorite design by any means. But it suits our purposes for now.

I've been on a number of Tollycraft boats over the years, from the 26 on up to models in the 40 foot range. Well-built boats, no question, and for people who like that kind of design they are an excellent choice. But none of their models have any appeal to us and we would never consider buying one. When we began thinking that a larger boat might be nice to have for exploring the area by water that we had been exploring by floatplane for many years we started looking at boats in a casual way. We were drawn to several basic designs and styles but the "cabin cruiser" boats like Tollycraft, Uniflite, and Bayliner were not among them.

Marin said:

I think GBs are a bit stodgy, too. They are not our favorite design by any means. But it suits our purposes for now.

I've been on a number of Tollycraft boats over the years, from the 26 on up to models in the 40 foot range. Well-built boats, no question, and for people who like that kind of design they are an excellent choice. But none of their models have any aopeal to us and we would never consider buying one. When we began thinking that a larger boat might be nice to have for exploring the area by water that we had been exploring by floatplane for many years we started looking at boats in a casual way. We were drawn to several basic designs and styles but the "cabin cruiser" boats like Tollycraft, Uniflite, and Bayliner were not among them.

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I have been aboard GB's... starting in 1960's as teenager in NY, during my 20's around Camden/Rockport/Rockland Maine, and on into current days on west coast. Very well put together craft. A Legend in Their Own Time... But, not my cup o' tea!

Upon running across Tolly's I became affixed to their build-quality, living comfort, hull design for sea keeping as well as speed, and ease of maintenance. We "The Clan" of Tolly owners are a tight bunch with ready assistance/discussion to one another. From what I can tell GB owners are Clan like too!

Bottom line: Boating is fun! No matter what good quality boat may be chosen to ply the waters.

Art said:

From what I can tell GB owners are Clan like too!

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I wouldn't know. There is the GB owners forum which is a very good technical resource because of the shipwrights and ex-shipwrights and yard owners who participate in it. And I believe there may be GB get-togethers from time to time in various places. We have met a few other GB owners over the years but so far as I could tell they do their own thing independently of anyone else, same as we do. But there may be GB owners clubs and such. We aren't interested in that sort of thing so if they do exist we wouldn't know about it.

Without meaning to take this off-topic, what is with the "fuel crisis" label?

We are not in a fuel crisis. A crisis is when there is no fuel to be had and no alternatives available.

We are settling into the new reality in which fuel is abundant but less and less affordable to a growing number of consumers.

RickB said:

Without meaning to take this off-topic, what is with the "fuel crisis" label?

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I agree there is no supply crisis but if you go back to the original post that started this from Ken Buck in 2008 he's wondering how the then-rapidly-escalating fuel prices would affect boat buying trends and new boat design. I suppose the then-rapidly rising fuel prices could have been interpreted as a "crisis" in terms of what it could do to the cost of boating, particularly the cost of operating the big, plowing, fuel guzzlers.

Army Boots

My boat's prettier than your boat .

In boats like most everything else, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Unfortunately the laws of physics apply universally. It takes power to plane and it takes money to provide that power. For most of us, time and money are a balancing challenge.


When we bought our boat 8 years ago I knew we'd only have three day weekends and the annual two week vacations. That's why we chose a trailerable boat that cruises at 25 kts. Unfortunately, there is no slower pace as it suck huge amounts of fuel when its plowing at 15 kts. and it zig zags at hull speed.

As I near retirement when time will be available for months long voyages we are shopping for a larger boat which will provide more space and comfort. With more time available we won't have the need for speed. However, I can relate to Marin's comments about watching paint dry so we are looking for a boat that will give a fair turn of speed when desired but also be comfortable and affordable at slower speeds. In the log yards of Puget Sound, I won't be unhappy to slow down a little and back off the tension.


As far as aesthetics, I tend to be drawn like Art is to the Tollycrafts. And, I'm glad I won't have to compete with Marin's wallet to get one.

Budds Outlet said:

As far as aesthetics, I tend to be drawn like Art is to the Tollycrafts. And, I'm glad I won't have to compete with Marin's wallet to get one.

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No worries there. At this point if we decide to do anything we are inclined to have our boat completely overhauled and repowered as opposed to buying a newer or larger one. While the cost could be applied to a newer GB (or similar boat) we know what we have with this one and we put a lot of value on the 1973 hull which by many accounts is the best fiberglass hull (along with the early 74s) American Marine/Grand Banks ever built.

However there are boat designs we prefer, specifically pilothouse (hence the Fleming) and the Europa configuration of GBs. But given all the other things we have earmarked to do in the near future it may not make sense to change to a different boat with all the new problems to be fixed, greater moorage and insurance costs, and so on that would come with it. Time will tell. But the one thing I can say with absolute certainty is there is no Tollycraft in our future.

Many boats have the appearance of a plastic Clorox jug. ... Unlike those jugs, I find the appearance of GBs to be appealing. But that's me.