Boating speed limits

timjet · Jun 12, 2012

In Florida there are 3 speed limits that I can think of.
1. The areas where a specific maximum speed is posted. Generally in the AICW that will be a max of 25 mph. Not much discussion or explanation needed.

2. Idle speed no wake. The definition of which is: A speed no greater than that which is necessary to maintain steerage and headway. I guess this can be subject to some interpretation, but for the most part I think most people understand this speed limit.

3. Slow speed minimum wake zone. The definition is: Areas where vessels must be fully off plane and completely settled in the water.
In Florida many people including law enforcement seem to think this includes minimum wake.

I've got some nasty looks and a couple of yells from law enforcement when I've been in minimum wake zones, fully off plane and settled in the water but too fast for their thinking.

Just wondering what you guys think?

My boat puts out a huge wake fully off plane and settled in the water. Probably just as much as doing 18 kts.

skipperdude · Jun 12, 2012

The only speed zone I have is. No wake in the harbor.

For some reason people like to yell that on the VHF

After you are out of the harbor it's ocean.

SD

jeffnick · Jun 12, 2012

I got pulled over in Astor and given a warning in a No Wake zone in my 15'11" cuddy. I was going 5 1/2 mph. The water cop said No Wake means no white water at the bow or stern. We tested to see what speed that would be for me and it turned out to be 4 mph. Of course it depends on the direction and current. In some places with a strong current I suppose you could get a No Wake ticket at anchor.
One More Time Around: Manatee Madness

Pineapple Girl · Jun 12, 2012

we have no wake zones and 5 mph zones. People will yell at you for idling in forward through a no wake zone! there is no pleasing some people.

rwidman · Jun 12, 2012

I was in Florida last month. Most of last month and mostly on the St. Johns River. I saw what timjet saw, but I also saw "Idle Speed, No Wake within 50 feet of shoreline, 30 MPH daytime, 25 MPH nightime in the channel".

Entering Lake Monroe was a sign "Idle Speed, No Wake within 300 yards of North Shore". Figure that one out, will you!

A water cop yelled at me just after I passed under the bridges entering Lake Monroe. He said "SLOW DOWN". I don't know how fast I was going, but it wasn't fast at all, probably 3 - 4 knots.

markpierce · Jun 12, 2012

Pineapple Girl said:
People will yell at you for idling in forward through a no wake zone! there is no pleasing some people.

In Richmond, CA's Santa Fe Channel, I've gotten visual signals (lowering/raising a hand below the waist) from people on docks when I've come in "hot" at five knots. My lowest speed is 3.5 knots unless not in gear.

The Coot's cruising-speed wake:

Moonstruck · Jun 12, 2012

timjet said:
In Florida there are 3 speed limits that I can think of.
1. The areas where a specific maximum speed is posted. Generally in the AICW that will be a max of 25 mph. Not much discussion or explanation needed.

2. Idle speed no wake. The definition of which is: A speed no greater than that which is necessary to maintain steerage and headway. I guess this can be subject to some interpretation, but for the most part I think most people understand this speed limit.

3. Slow speed minimum wake zone. The definition is: Areas where vessels must be fully off plane and completely settled in the water.
In Florida many people including law enforcement seem to think this includes minimum wake.

I've got some nasty looks and a couple of yells from law enforcement when I've been in minimum wake zones, fully off plane and settled in the water but too fast for their thinking.

Just wondering what you guys think?

My boat puts out a huge wake fully off plane and settled in the water. Probably just as much as doing 18 kts.

Tim, there are speed limits of varying limits all along the East coast of Florida. In addition to the ones you sited there are some 30 mph limits. You also have to read the small print as some are date related. There are a couple of places (I think Worth Creek above Riviera Beach is one) with a 15" maximum wake. I thought that kind of ridiculous until a Sea Ray got tired of it, and passed us doing about 20 knots. The narrow channel between the seawalls turned into a washing machine. The waves bouncing from one side to the other. I too have gotten some looks when in idle speed. That is about 5 knots for me.

The speed limits are the most tedious things on the ICW. There is a no wake zone below New Smyrna Beach that takes over an hour to get through. Then when you get in Mosquito Lagoon there is one speed limit for day and one for night. You really need someone just reading the signs for you. They are set so far out of the channel that you can't read them well----especially at 27 knots.

Marin · Jun 12, 2012

There are a few speed limited areas here. Our marina has a 4 knot/no wake limit throughout the marina. Lake Washington has a 6 or 7 knot limit within 100 yards of the shoreline and under the bridges. There are speed limits on a few of the narrower passes in the San Juan's like Pole Pass. This is to protect boats docked near the channel, not a limit due to the narrowness of the pass itself.

While our boat doesn't put out much of a wake at 8 knots we slow down when passing close to kayakers and trolling or jigging sport fishermen. During the summer in particular the radio lights up periodically with cursing from fisherman at some big plowing boat like Bayliners and such whose skippers pay no attention to their surroundings or their wake and power past everyone regardless of the effect their wake has on them.

markpierce · Jun 12, 2012

Marin said:
... we slow down when passing close to kayakers and trolling or jigging sport fishermen.

Ditto

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... but there seems to be no wake limit around me.

psneeld · Jun 13, 2012

Stay reasonable...smile and wave at the people who don't want a ripple when they are at dock/fishing but are clueless underway...or the people who never leave the dock.

Yeah Florida is a challenge with all the different speed signs...need a good set of binocs and pay close attention when passing through bridges, etc for a sudden change in rules.

Nice thing about going slow in a trawler to conserve fuel...you are probably minimum wake ALL the time...

rwidman · Jun 13, 2012

What annoys me are the "No Wake" signs put up by individuals who have no authority to do so. Some have coppied the official signs so you don't really know if yo are violating a real No Wake zone or just someone's make believe one. Compare this to a homeowner putting up speed limit signs in front of his/her house.

A typical trawler a seven knots does create a wake. Not like a sport fish at 30 MPH, but it's a big enough wake to be a violation.

As for posting actual speed limits in miles per hour, would that limit be "over water" or "over ground"? With out GPS systems, we can measure speed over ground, but I've never seen a boat speedometer that can measure 6 MPH over water.

Personally, I try to obey the laws and I try to be courtious, but once in a while, I'll miss a sign because I'm concentrationg on something else. A couple of times, I have found myself going too fast through a drawbridge so other boats can pass in the other direction or so the bridge can be lowered for auto traffic. I have to learn to forget about other folks and take my own sweet time.

Moonstruck · Jun 13, 2012

psneeld said:
Yeah Florida is a challenge with all the different speed signs...need a good set of binocs and pay close attention when passing through bridges, etc for a sudden change in rules.

Yeah, one of my pet peeves is someone hopping up into the navigators chair because they want a better view. Then start asking questions like, "what kind of bird is that" or "where does that channel go". They have the chart table and binoculars in front of them, but say, "oh, I could never see out of those". It's great when a guest is on the boat like Norm when we came over. Norm is a retired Navy Captain that taught ship handling at the Academy. He plotted and kept up with our position on paper for the whole 165 NM.

Many people who run small boats or even larger ones, but don't really cruise don't realize the concentration that it takes---especially at our speeds.

ksanders · Jun 13, 2012

For us its go for it or no wake.

For me no wake means that I can have the engines in gear at idle.

If that means some get ruffled, oh well. I can't control my boat without steerage way, and that means engines in gear and idle speed.

psneeld · Jun 13, 2012

rwidman said:
What annoys me are the "No Wake" signs put up by individuals who have no authority to do so. Some have coppied the official signs so you don't really know if yo are violating a real No Wake zone or just someone's make believe one. Compare this to a homeowner putting up speed limit signs in front of his/her house.

A typical trawler a seven knots does create a wake. Not like a sport fish at 30 MPH, but it's a big enough wake to be a violation.

As for posting actual speed limits in miles per hour, would that limit be "over water" or "over ground"? With out GPS systems, we can measure speed over ground, but I've never seen a boat speedometer that can measure 6 MPH over water.

Personally, I try to obey the laws and I try to be courtious, but once in a while, I'll miss a sign because I'm concentrationg on something else. A couple of times, I have found myself going too fast through a drawbridge so other boats can pass in the other direction or so the bridge can be lowered for auto traffic. I have to learn to forget about other folks and take my own sweet time.

In NJ if the sign/buoy doesn't have the NJ State Police initials with the state law code numbers on it...then it's not official. But in most cases it's in front of (within 200') a dock so it's slow speed/no wake anyhow.

I am happy to see a lot of areas of the AICW with new construction using boat lifts. I hope that is in response towns/states telling residents just because they are dumb enough to build on the ACIW that they don't get no wake privledges.

I have always said that the next big war on the water after the jet ski issue would be the "no wake" zone issue and anchoring &/or fishing (clogging) in the AICW issue.

yachtbrokerguy · Jun 13, 2012

I have run the Intracoastal Waterway dozens of times starting in 1975. Each year I see new houses along the banks with new unofficial No Wake signs. So the owners build a new house on the ICW so they can watch the boats go by and use their own boats there, and put up their own signs to make the rest of us go slow? If there is a boat at their dock I slow, if it is a fixed dock without a boat I do not want to slow, but sometimes I might.
Here in South Florida we have some Manatee Zones that are in force only on weekends. I guess the manatees do not go to work those days.

markpierce · Jun 13, 2012

Regardless, isn't one responsible for damage caused by one's wake?

rwidman · Jun 13, 2012

markpierce said:
Regardless, isn't one responsible for damage caused by one's wake?

In theory, yes. In practice, rarely.

You have to catch the person and prove he or she was operating the boat. You have to have witnesses or video. You have to have actual damages such as an overturned boat, broken limbs, etc. Spilling your drink will not do. "Wear and tear" on a dock or boat isn't going to do it either.

There are a few documented cases of a boat speeding past a marina, causing damage to several boats, and the name or registration being recorded, and the violation reported to law enforcement who then actually tracked down the offender. It's pretty rare, though.

As far as the sign having to have the official decal and/or law number to be "real", it's not all that hard to copy this information or copy an official sign. We aren't looking at it close up, we are a hundred feet or more away on a rocking boat. You won't get a ticket for violating a home made sign, the idea is that you will think it's an official sign and slow down.

ksanders · Jun 14, 2012

markpierce said:
Regardless, isn't one responsible for damage caused by one's wake?

Actually I have never seen a federal or state law that did not have the word neglegent or reckless in it as far as wake damage goes.

Basically if you are in a speed controlled zone you need to go that speed. If you are in a no wake zone, you need to have no wake, or minimum wake possible for your boat.

If you are in an unregulated area you can use your boat within its operational limits and not worry about wake damage claims.

***Note*** boats over 1600 tons do have wake limits as part of the navrules.

markpierce · Jun 14, 2012

In California "The maximum speed for motorboats within 100 feet of a bather (but not a water skier) and within 200 feet of a bathing beach, swimming float, diving platform or life line, passenger landing being used, or landing where boats are tied up is five miles per hour." That's about 1100 RPM for the Coot.

psneeld · Jun 14, 2012

ksanders said:
Actually I have never seen a federal or state law that did not have the word neglegent or reckless in it as far as wake damage goes.

Basically if you are in a speed controlled zone you need to go that speed. If you are in a no wake zone, you need to have no wake, or minimum wake possible for your boat.

If you are in an unregulated area you can use your boat within its operational limits and not worry about wake damage claims.

***Note*** boats over 1600 tons do have wake limits as part of the navrules.

While I agree that the wake issue is gray in its specifics...many states have specific wording that includes some thing like "you are always responsible" and that would apply to all waters within the state waters.

If you rock a small boat (but big enough for the water it is operating in)severely enough to swamp it and someone is hurt...I'm pretty sure a wake claim may result and even the authorities would get involved.

However the "always responsible" is/can be offset be the other skipper not being a "responsible seaman"...so that is where the gray area arises in my experience.

ksanders · Jun 14, 2012

psneeld said:
While I agree that the wake issue is gray in its specifics...many states have specific wording that includes some thing like "you are always responsible" and that would apply to all waters within the state waters.

If you rock a small boat (but big enough for the water it is operating in)severely enough to swamp it and someone is hurt...I'm pretty sure a wake claim may result and even the authorities would get involved.

However the "always responsible" is/can be offset be the other skipper not being a "responsible seaman"...so that is where the gray area arises in my experience.

Thats exactly what I thought. Probably because that exact saying is highly promoted by the likes of BoatUS and other groups.

Then I started looking up state laws, and even challenged others (on another forum) to do the same.

We were unable to find any coastal states with anything close to that verbage in their laws. We even found states that have exclusions for people operating their boats as they are intended.

I would try it, look up a few state laws. You'll probably be suprised.

Peter B · Jun 14, 2012

Here in Oz, things appear to be simpler. it is generally 4 knots in marinas/harbours etc, 6kn when passing moored boats, within 30 metres of anchored vessels, and in certain rivers to lessen erosion of banks, and then out in the open waters the max is 50kn, except when in ecologically sensitive areas like dugong (manatee) and turtle feeding areas etc, where the 6kn rule again applies. Of course the50kn really seldom possible, but high performance planing boats and jet skis etc capable of those speeds skim along on the surface so don't make much of a wake at speed, unlike those dratted semi-planers....

psneeld · Jun 14, 2012

ksanders said:
Thats exactly what I thought. Probably because that exact saying is highly promoted by the likes of BoatUS and other groups.

Then I started looking up state laws, and even challenged others (on another forum) to do the same.

We were unable to find any coastal states with anything close to that verbage in their laws. We even found states that have exclusions for people operating their boats as they are intended.

I would try it, look up a few state laws. You'll probably be suprised.

NJ State Police Boating handbook...

SPEED
1. No person shall operate a power vessel or allow a power
vessel to be operated where the speed may cause danger
of injury to life or limb or damage to property. The speed
of every power vessel shall be regulated to avoid risk of
damage, or injury by any means, from the power vessel’s
wake.
2. All power vessels shall reduce their speed to slow speed
when passing:
a. Any marina, pier, dock or wharf at a distance of 200
feet or less.
b. Work barges or fl oats while actually engaged in construction.
c. Through bridge openings of 400 feet or less.
d. Through lagoons, canals or confi ned areas of less than
200 feet in width.
e. Vessels not under command.
f. Emergency vessels displaying fl ashing or rotating
lights.
29
3. “Slow Speed” is defi ned as speed at which a power vessel
moves through the water and is able to maintain minimum
headway in relation to vessel or structure being passed.
4. All power vessels in a marked “Slow Speed/No Wake” area
shall move only at a no wake speed and not on plane. “No
Wake Speed” shall mean speed at which a power vessel
moves through the water maintaining minimum headway
and producing minimum wake possible.
5. The operator of any vessel is responsible for any damage

caused from the wake of the vessel.

the last one might as well say "always"...it leaves it out but the legality of it is that no specific means always in the eyes of the law...

ksanders · Jun 14, 2012

psneeld said:
NJ State Police Boating handbook...

SPEED
1. No person shall operate a power vessel or allow a power
vessel to be operated where the speed may cause danger
of injury to life or limb or damage to property. The speed
of every power vessel shall be regulated to avoid risk of
damage, or injury by any means, from the power vessel’s
wake.
2. All power vessels shall reduce their speed to slow speed
when passing:
a. Any marina, pier, dock or wharf at a distance of 200
feet or less.
b. Work barges or fl oats while actually engaged in construction.
c. Through bridge openings of 400 feet or less.
d. Through lagoons, canals or confi ned areas of less than
200 feet in width.
e. Vessels not under command.
f. Emergency vessels displaying fl ashing or rotating
lights.
29
3. “Slow Speed” is defi ned as speed at which a power vessel
moves through the water and is able to maintain minimum
headway in relation to vessel or structure being passed.
4. All power vessels in a marked “Slow Speed/No Wake” area
shall move only at a no wake speed and not on plane. “No
Wake Speed” shall mean speed at which a power vessel
moves through the water maintaining minimum headway
and producing minimum wake possible.
5. The operator of any vessel is responsible for any damage
caused from the wake of the vessel.

the last one might as well say "always"...it leaves it out but the legality of it is that no specific means always in the eyes of the law...

There you go. I/we didn't think of New Jersey. To be honest, I don't generally think of New Jersey as a coastal state. Probably from being so far removed in Alaska.

psneeld · Jun 14, 2012

This is right out of one of the NASBLA courses.

Courtesy

Everyone who uses or enjoys the waterways of our country, whether boating, walking along the shoreline or actually living on the water’s edge has the same rights to enjoy the tranquillity of the water. Boaters should respect the rights of others who live or play on the shoreline. You should not disturb private property owners by docking on their land. You should be careful about the amount of wake that you are leaving when operating close to shore. You are responsible for any damage you cause with your wake. Control your speed and obey speed limit signs.

Any state that requires boating operator's certification would be able to say that "responsible for your wake" is taught and therefore understood how it applies when the law says reckless or negligent operation.

psneeld · Jun 14, 2012

ksanders said:
There you go. I/we didn't think of New Jersey. To be honest, I don't generally think of New Jersey as a coastal state. Probably from being so far removed in Alaska.

I think I can see more boats from my flybridge right now than I saw in all my trips to Alaska (and I have seen it by water from the Canadian boarder to past Attu Island) and the 2 years I lived on Kodiak....

As Marin would say...Uuuuugh!!! :nonono:

timjet · Jun 14, 2012

If a john boat whose skipper is fishing and is anchored on the edge of a marked narrow channel whose speed is not regulated and you swamp the john boat by your wake, are you responsible?

I see this often in the Florida ICW, except the swamp part.

ksanders · Jun 14, 2012

psneeld said:
This is right out of one of the NASBLA courses.

Courtesy

Everyone who uses or enjoys the waterways of our country, whether boating, walking along the shoreline or actually living on the water’s edge has the same rights to enjoy the tranquillity of the water. Boaters should respect the rights of others who live or play on the shoreline. You should not disturb private property owners by docking on their land. You should be careful about the amount of wake that you are leaving when operating close to shore. You are responsible for any damage you cause with your wake. Control your speed and obey speed limit signs.

Any state that requires boating operator's certification would be able to say that "responsible for your wake" is taught and therefore understood how it applies when the law says reckless or negligent operation.

I would respectfully submit that boating courses are not state or federal law.

so far the only coastal (no disrespect to the good people of New Jersey) state that seems to have such a stronlly worded law is New Jersey.

The problem of wake damage is more than just courtesy. Several people in this thread have brought up instances where people build on the waterfront but then have challenges when people operate their boats in a normal fashion in the vicinity of their waterfront property.

Some states solve this issue with zone speed and wake restrictions.

My challenge is that the statement that "everyone is responsible for all damage caused by their wake" is just not true in many if not most coastal jurisdictions.

For example if you build along a shoreline in such a way that normal operation of a vessel (commercial or recreational) would result in wake damage then the vessel is not responsible.

If you operate a vessle that could or would be damaged by another vessel during its normal operation, then the wake producing vessle should not, and generally are not responsible for damage.

psneeld · Jun 14, 2012

timjet said:
If a john boat whose skipper is fishing and is anchored on the edge of a marked narrow channel whose speed is not regulated and you swamp the john boat by your wake, are you responsible?

I see this often in the Florida ICW, except the swamp part.

I say "depends".....hopefully the LEO will say the same and you will have your day in court as to some unfightable civil violation with automatic fine....yeah go to court AND TRY AND WIN AGAINST SOME LOCAL....

If you are a smooth talker...you might be able to convince the LEO you were reasonable and the other party wasn't...but my guess is you will wind up in court and probably lose unless you have big bucks and one of the best maritime lawyers who boats and has full interest in your case.

psneeld · Jun 14, 2012

ksanders said:
I would respectfully submit that boating courses are not state or federal law.

True but try and convince some non-maritime court that there's no difference. After 23 years of carefully following this issue in the USCG and another 12 on the water as a pro and another 12 as a boating safety course instructor...I had quite a bit of contact with ALL levels of LEOs and courts and guess what...law is a fluid thing at the level you are gonna be tried at....even the maritime hearing officers are leaning toward the idiot because of public perception. EVERY case I have heard about I have followed up on or researched to the best of my ability and have learned that most of them never go to court/hearing but are settled....similar to most legal issues...

so far the only coastal (no disrespect to the good people of New Jersey) state that seems to have such a stronlly worded law is New Jersey. Have you checked the statutes in every one?

The problem of wake damage is more than just courtesy. Several people in this thread have brought up instances where people build on the waterfront but then have challenges when people operate their boats in a normal fashion in the vicinity of their waterfront property. Smile and wave!!

Some states solve this issue with zone speed and wake restrictions. Yes and I posted it would be the next big war and if you read North Carolina's boating stuff..I'm glad to see application for a no wake zone has to have a public hearing and is scrutinized.

My challenge is that the statement that "everyone is responsible for all damage caused by their wake" is just not true in many if not most coastal jurisdictions. It is if you go to court and lose or the LEO disagree's with you.

For example if you build along a shoreline in such a way that normal operation of a vessel (commercial or recreational) would result in wake damage then the vessel is not responsible. No such thing as "normal operation" ...however "seaman like" and "prudent mariner" are more common and those are WAY GRAY!!!

If you operate a vessle that could or would be damaged by another vessel during its normal operation, then the wake producing vessle should not, and generally are not responsible for damage.
I agree...but I'm afraid along the Eastern Seaboard it is a give and take that makes little sense...and transient boaters/cruisers are generally losing the battle.

Hey I'm the first to say...don't want to get waked...don't boat on/near or keep your boat on America's water highway...but most people glare at me because they are not cruisers and have no place to go in no rush...or they are the ones way more guilty than me!!!

Boating speed limits

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