Proper stowage of dingy outboard?

Hoping to find the perfect solution with some help from the experienced crowd here on the board.

Our inflatable is transported in the swimstep with the Weaver Davits but I dont have a good way or stowing the outboard.
Often times i have a bait tank on the transom port side, so there is not much room also for a mount there.. love to hear any ideas.
The o/b is not really heavy but as everyone knows from experience, can be tricky not to drop the o/b in the water when dis-assembling from the dingy.
apologize if this should have been in one of the other forums, but i was in doubt if either one was more appropriate than the other.

What size is your outboard? We have a very simple rotating mount on the back of our Livingston that allows us to rotate the outboard into a vertical position when the dingy is hauled up into it's stored position. The mount is made in Canada by Adventure Marine. It is limited to ouboards of 9.9 hp (ours is a 4hp 4-stroke). And it is totally manual. You have to bend down or kneel down and rotate the motor by hand. But it has worked great for us for the eleven years we've had it. https://www.adventuremarine.net/product-catalogue/index.cfm?ProductID=3&do=detail

Marin wrote:

What size is your outboard? We have a very simple rotating mount on the back of our Livingston that allows us to rotate the outboard into a vertical position when the dingy is hauled up into it's stored position. The mount is made in Canada by Adventure Marine. It is limited to ouboards of 9.9 hp (ours is a 4hp 4-stroke). And it is totally manual. You have to bend down or kneel down and rotate the motor by hand. But it has worked great for us for the eleven years we've had it. https://www.adventuremarine.net/product-catalogue/index.cfm?ProductID=3&do=detail

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********* Wow, That is a nice set up. It sure beats taking if off and clamping it on the rail mount in the cockpit ( opps I meant aft deck ).** John

*

There is a similar system made by Sea Wise which you can get with hand crank or motorized.
http://www.davitsystem.com/

Seawise Davits are fabulous until you get to the cash register. We'd love to have one but we could visit friends in Europe--- several times--- for the price of one of them.

It seems to me to be a very dangerous way to transport a skiff/dinghy. It amybe alright in inland an sheltered waterways but I wouldn't want to be on the coast with that contraption on my stern.
I would also think it is a violation for a U.S. documented vessel- obstructing hailing port and vessel name.

I too use the Weavers and have an outboard mounting bracket mounted on the stern of my trawler near the dingy's stern making for simple on/off.

If you look at my photo to the left you can see it just to the left of the steps from the swim platform.

-- Edited by marinetrader on Thursday 27th of January 2011 07:28:51 AM

Jack, to address your concern, for a U.S. documented vessel you can add the*hailing port and vessel name*to the*bottom of the dingy hull so that it is still visible.*

The size and weight of hte dinghy will determine which system is best. The kind Marin uses is for light weight, small dinghies, ones that can easily be hoisted onto and supported by the end of the swimgrid without multipart tackle. Once your combined dingy and outboard weight exceeds what you can hoist in that manner, you will need to move up to the SeaWise system, which has a crank for small dinghies, and an electric pulley for heavier loads. The swimgrid will also need to be reinforced to carry teh extra load.
This method is less than satisfactory for a lot of heavy dingies, as the attachment points on the dinghy will fail, or you will need unsightly reinforcements added to the dinghy to make it work.
Not only the boat name and hailing port must be transferred to the upraised bottom of the dinghy, but also the stern facing white light will need to be raised, so as to be visible to the stern, over the dinghy.
On boats such as a Sea Ray, with no available site for proper davits, the dinghy will need to go on the foredeck, or use one of these methods. For a trawler with a near vertical transom, proper davits are a better solution, and no more expensive than SeaWise.
I recently purchased a heavy dinghy/outboard (750+ lbs) that were on a Seawise on the POs boat. The structural damage to the dinghy was significant, at the stern attachment points.
I have no concerns about the danger from a following sea with davits, but I would have concerns with a flip up system. I have seen several examples of the dinghy catching a wave and the weaver davits or dinghy being damaged. This occurs where the dinghy is too long for the length of the swimgid.
Jack: I agree that this system isn't appropriate for offshore vessels, and I don't recall seeing it in use on any with those pretentions.

Marin,
Thank you for posting that link. I thought I had seen most all of the options for dinghy engine storage but had never seen that mount before. I like it a LOT. I have been pondering the hassle of taking off the motor which I'd really prefer not to do.
I assume you are using that motor mount with weaver snap davits? Are you just manually lifting up your dinghy and motor or using a pulley off the boom? Right now I can easily tilt our 9' rib up on the weaver snap davits and tie off on a cleat @ the transom but it would weigh more with our 6-7hp outboard.

Sailor of Fortune wrote:

It seems to me to be a very dangerous way to transport a skiff/dinghy. It amybe alright in inland an sheltered waterways but I wouldn't want to be on the coast with that contraption on my stern.
I would also think it is a violation for a U.S. documented vessel- obstructing hailing port and vessel name.

Click to expand...

Per the USCG Documentation Center, "The name and hailing port of a recreational vessel must be marked together on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull. The vessel name of a commercial vessel must also be marked on the port and starboard bow and the vessel name and the hailing port must also be marked on the stern."

So, for recreational boats, the vessel name and hailing port aren't required to be on the stern, but merely on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull.

*

Woodsong wrote:I assume you are using that motor mount with weaver snap davits? Are you just manually lifting up your dinghy and motor or using a pulley off the boom?

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We have a 9' reinforced-side Livingston (you have to have the reinforced sides if you're going to carry it on its side) with a 4hp, 4-cycle Yamaha.* We used to just manhandle the dinghy up into the stow position using a short line clipped to a U-bracked on the outboard gunwale of the Livingston.* We did this for some eight years until the light went on.

I realized if I replaced the boom fall--- which was long enough to launch the sailing dinghy on the aft cabin top but no longer--- with a 120' boom fall, we could use the fall and its multiple-sheave blocks to deploy and retrieve the Livingston without having to move the boom at all.* So what had been a two-person strain job is now a very easy one person job.

We would not use Weaver Davits to support a dinghy any heavier than ours.* Our boom fall system does the same thing as a Seawise Davit less the automatic motor pivoting feature.* But the typical teak-grid swimstep with four mounting brackets is probably not strong enough to support much more weight safely, particularly on an older boat like ours.* A heavily built fiberglass extension-type swimstep is probably a different story.

But this is why, when the day comes that we need a more buoyant, faster dinghy like Carey's Bullfrog, we will tow it and leave the Livingston at home.

And I agree with previous comments that carrying a dinghy on the swimstep in the open ocean is a potentially very dangerous thing to do.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 27th of January 2011 12:20:10 PM

markpierce wrote:


Sailor of Fortune wrote:

It seems to me to be a very dangerous way to transport a skiff/dinghy. It amybe alright in inland an sheltered waterways but I wouldn't want to be on the coast with that contraption on my stern.
I would also think it is a violation for a U.S. documented vessel- obstructing hailing port and vessel name.

Click to expand...

Per the USCG Documentation Center, "The name and hailing port of a recreational vessel must be marked together on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull. The vessel name of a commercial vessel must also be marked on the port and starboard bow and the vessel name and the hailing port must also be marked on the stern."

So, for recreational boats, the vessel name and hailing port aren't required to be on the stern, but merely on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull.

*

This is precisely the problem I have with going any distance with the dinghy covering the transom.* I read that regulation to mean that the vessel name and hailing port must be affixed to the hull, and not to the bottom of the dinghy.


I assume that your point is that you can affix the name and hailing port elsewhere, so that the dinghy doesn't*obstruct the view, so long as it is permanantly fixed to the boat (part of the hull).

Egregious wrote:This is precisely the problem I have with going any distance with the dinghy covering the transom.* I read that regulation to mean that the vessel name and hailing port must be affixed to the hull, and not to the bottom of the dinghy.

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Not to worry.* The majority of powerboats up here carry their dingies on the transom and all the ones that are documented (like ours) have the name and hailing port on the bottom of the dinghy.* Same with most of the ones that aren't documented.* The USCG sees all this on a daily basis and has for decades.* We've been boarded twice--- the patrol boat got our name off the bottom of the dinghy for the radio hail.* It's legal.* If it's not legal then somebody needs to tell Coast Guard Puget Sound.

We also have the name and hailing port on the transom but it's obviously blocked by the stowed dinghy.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 27th of January 2011 12:47:22 PM

Egregious wrote:



I assume that your point is that you can affix the name and hailing port elsewhere, so that the dinghy doesn't*obstruct the view, so long as it is permanantly fixed to the boat (part of the hull).

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Yup, anywhere visible on the hull.

*

On Moonstruck, the name and hailing port are both on the stern and the dinghy bottom.* Weaver Snap Davits with a Weaver leaver for the motor will take weight off the dinghy.* Our motor is a 15hp 2 stroke Yamaha that comes in just under the weight allowed for the Weaver leaver.

Marin wrote:

What size is your outboard? We have a very simple rotating mount on the back of our Livingston that allows us to rotate the outboard into a vertical position when the dingy is hauled up into it's stored position. The mount is made in Canada by Adventure Marine. It is limited to ouboards of 9.9 hp (ours is a 4hp 4-stroke). And it is totally manual. You have to bend down or kneel down and rotate the motor by hand. But it has worked great for us for the eleven years we've had it. https://www.adventuremarine.net/product-catalogue/index.cfm?ProductID=3&do=detail

Click to expand...

thank you very much everyone for the replies.

i wasnt aware of the USCG requirement and have seen many many boats in the Long Beach areas who carry their dingies on the swimstep, without having the name and port painted on the bottom of the dingy.

my o/b is a small 4hp so i think the best system i have seen so far is this one Marin has recommended. The dingy and the o/b together cant be much over 100lbs so i doubt that there is much of potential for danger.

*

Thank you Marin,
I looked at the website and it doesnt show how this unit is fastened to the dingy, is it drilled into the wall or?
best regards,
Per

Per wrote:

I looked at the website and it doesnt show how this unit is fastened to the dingy....

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There are four mounting holes drilled in the mount's*base plate.* You drill the transom to match them and attach*with bolts, nuts, and fender washers.* Good idea to seal the base plate to the transom around the bolt holes and under*the fender washers*to prevent moisture ingress.* I used either Sikaflex or 3M 4200 for this.*

Marin wrote:
We have a 9' reinforced-side Livingston (you have to have the reinforced sides if you're going to carry it on its side) with a 4hp, 4-cycle Yamaha.

I have just bought a used 7.5 Livinston that I need to reinforce. Can you tell me what the factory does to beef the side*up for standing on davits?

Thanks
Roger

I don't believe Livingston is still in business, or if they are it's a different company somewhere else. They were originally located here, which is why there are still probably more boats in this area with Livingston dinghies than any other type.

When we bought ours new in 1999, the dealer told me how the side was reinforced but I can't remember exactly anymore. I believe it was laid up with extra layers of glass in the sides. If it's not that then it has a wood panel embedded in the fiberglass sides. But I'm pretty sure the reinforcement comes from extra glass. I say this because the side is still somewhat flexible, where I would expect it not to be if it had a plywood reinforcing panel in it.

At the time the factory also made a "guide" model in some of their sizes. I don't remember if the guide option went clear down into the 9' models, but I'm pretty sure that the guide option was wood reinforcement inside the fiberglass.

The Seattle dealer had sold thousands of Livingstons as shoreboats over the years so we just went with his recommendations. We got the reinforced side model, we had him fit the stainless steel rub strips on the two keel runners, oarlocks and oar holders, etc. He was also a Weaver dealer, but when we asked him about a rotating motor mount he recommended the simple Adventure Marine rotating mount as opposed to the Weaver Lever since our outboard is pretty small (about 50 pounds).

Livingston moved to N.Carolina
http://www.livingstonboats.com/index.html

Which makes them impractical for us on the west coast.

You are correct about the reinforcing, its just some extra glass , which is the same as my 9'. I had an 8' and I did the sides with 3/4 ply covered with glass. It was very stiff, much more so than my 9'. However,*the 9' is*about 12-15 yrs on its side and it still looks good.

I think if I was doing it today I would simply put on about 4 - 5 layers of Nytex cloth or 4 each layer of matte and 6ozcloth. That should be more than enough for the dinghies weight itself.
Each layer of Nytex is about 1mm,(0.039" the separate matte and cloth is about 1.25mm
(0.050")

-- Edited by C lectric on Sunday 30th of January 2011 12:09:38 AM

Per,I am not sure if my set up would work for you- but we have a 3.5 Mercury (Tohatsu) 4 stroke that I remove when back that I mount on our sundeck railing. I had a piece of SS flat plate bent to 90 degrees for the top. The pic doesnt show well, but on the inboard side I have a 1/4" plate of aluminum that spaces the teak board out. My thinking is this keeps from scratching up the SS top rail, and if I ever want to do away with the mount I will only have to repair the holes I drilled in the FG surround to bring it back to original. I took a couple of pictures this weekend.

thanks for your suggestion Steve, i like your set up.
however my rail is wood and too wide for the o/b to bracket over it.
but it does provide some possible ideas.

Who can recommend a motor mount system that will allow the outboard to be lowered off the swim platform as an auxilary for trolling or in case of main engine failure?

Mappy said:

Marin wrote:
We have a 9' reinforced-side Livingston (you have to have the reinforced sides if you're going to carry it on its side) with a 4hp, 4-cycle Yamaha.

I have just bought a used 7.5 Livinston that I need to reinforce. Can you tell me what the factory does to beef the side*up for standing on davits?

Thanks
Roger

Click to expand...

I saw a Livingston reinforced by fastening a 5/4"x6" treated board to the inside of the hull on the "down" side. Most of the side is flat enough to do this I fyou worry about looks you could have the board glassed in.
I have a Livingston,I carry it hanging on Kato davits so leave the motor on. If I were to do it I would mount the board on the outside of the hull and slip the top of it up under the cap the gunnel forms then fasten it through the side of the hull. Maybe paint it so it wouldn't look too bad.
Steve W

Sailor of Fortune said:

It seems to me to be a very dangerous way to transport a skiff/dinghy. It amybe alright in inland an sheltered waterways but I wouldn't want to be on the coast with that contraption on my stern.
I would also think it is a violation for a U.S. documented vessel- obstructing hailing port and vessel name.

Click to expand...

The regulations require that the name be displayed on the hull. They don't specifically state that the name may not be obstructed at times.

Park yourself on the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway during the spring or fall snowbird season and count how many boats have dinghys stored on the stern and obstructing the boat's name.

I started using a plank down the inside of the hull in a bridge effect to gain strength for the sides on my livingstons a while back. The first livingston I had was mounted on its side using the weaver system and this addition to the livingston stopped the sides from caveving in.

I added them to the 12 foot for the same reason to add strength on the sides. But it also let me place some cleats and rod holders down rigger mounts along with having a solid rail to tie stuff too. Good for storage of the axe along with the stern cleats giving me a good solid platform for a tow bridal.

2 planks with the ends cut for the 3 pieces between the hull and plank. 12 SS bolts, nuts and 24 washers. Small tube of caulk. Plus any other add ons that can be placed back onto the wood. All comes apart when the wood rots out and needs to be replaced. About ten years. I have thought about using aluminuim instead of wood.

I have seen some local or home built mounts that pull a pin and as the Dingy is rotated onto the swim platform the motor stays level " very important on the four stroke" Options are always out there we pulled ours with the motor tilted up untill a offshore storm flipped it and ruined the motor, And the fear of the line becoming tangled in the prop.After that i used two pieces of alum pipe making a Y to insure the Dingy never was to close and elimiated the tangle fear, I love Davits But again a big wave will kill the boat davits and make a general mess of things. I read a long piece on life rafts deck mouted. getting tangled in rigging before making it off the boat, And my dads weighs about 300 Lbs making it not a good idea during a storm with the boat going down to be on the foredeck.1000 ideas and if you are a smooth water sailor davits holding the boat level are the best bet. If you blue water its personal preference and any issues that have turned bad as a guild to what you want. Just my two cents .

Marin said:

What size is your outboard? We have a very simple rotating mount on the back of our Livingston that allows us to rotate the outboard into a vertical position when the dingy is hauled up into it's stored position. The mount is made in Canada by Adventure Marine. It is limited to ouboards of 9.9 hp (ours is a 4hp 4-stroke). And it is totally manual. You have to bend down or kneel down and rotate the motor by hand. But it has worked great for us for the eleven years we've had it. https://www.adventuremarine.net/product-catalogue/index.cfm?ProductID=3&do=detail

Click to expand...

Crikey Marin, that would be ideal for our motor. It's a 2.5hp Honda 4-stroke, and even tho it's only about 22kg, it is still a pain getting in on and off a bucking tender and I worry a bit about dropping it in the drink, even tho I tether it - which is more fiddling about and makes it that bit harder to lift clear of the transom. I wonder if those could be ordered or obtained here in Oz..? Our duckboard is not wide enough for the full fancy Weaver version even if I wanted to spend that sort of money.