Teak deck removal project

Troy,
Have you decided on a non skid pattern approach?
Steve

No I have not decided yet, I have looked at quite a few boats trying to get ideas.
I think I am going to try Interlux paint and they have a non skid you can add in.

I have also considered Treadmaster, has anyone used this stuff before?

I have also considered Treadmaster, has anyone used this stuff before?

Troy, you feeling a little Deja Vu there?

I have used Treadmaster since the 70's.

It works very well , but It's loads easier to glue down individual sheets with a space between than create a solid deck.

You will need light sand bags to hold it down as it cures, and you will have to secure the sheet IF the deck camber is high. Or it will slowly slide out of position.

The Treadmaster is VERY good , but tender feet might not enjoy stubbing a toe.

It is directional in terms of its look , so purchase to layout with the "grain" in mind.

FF

A*thought just hit me.* thunk.***Why not just fix/repair*the teak*and install a canvas enclosure that way you could use the back deck year around.**We uses the back deck every, *so it's sort of like an additional area/room.*

Well the decks are long gone now!! I still might consider the enclosure

I forgot to ask you for the old stuff... I could use some firewood for the back yard!

Troy,

What were your considerations when deciding to lay down another layer of glass on your decks after teak removal?* As stated elsewhere I am removing mine and didnt know if I needed to add another layer or not, the deck seems sound where I have removed the teak, I filled each screw hole with a marinade injector filled with Git Rot and then filled holes with resin, but dont know if I need to lay some glass or not.* What are your thoughts?

Kevin.

Kevin---

A fellow on our dock with a 36 or 38 foot Island Gypsy did what you are doing---removed the teak decking and replaced it with a non-skid fiberglass deck. Since we pass his boat on our way to our boat, I have a general idea of what he did. After removing the teak he spent a LOT of time prepping the subdeck and then ever more time applying a thick fiberglass deck over it. His non-skid application (don't know what he used) went on top of the fiberglass layer(s) he had put over the subdeck in place of the teak.

We don't see this fellow too much in the winter but if we see him in the next week or so I'll try to remember to ask him what his basic steps were. However it sounds like you are pretty far along in your project so any information I'm able to get from him may come too late.

I can also ask a friend who used to be an engineer at Uniflite and who also has a boat on our dock and knows what the Island Gypsy owner went through for a description of the process if you think that might be helpful.

Sanding the old glass down is really fast and easy with the right gear.

Get a THICK Bher Manning (about 1 1/2 or 2 in )foam pad that accepts glued on abrasives.

Go to the floor refinishing store and get a hunk of the floor refinishing "{sandpaper" it will be 9 or 10 inches wide and about 3ft long. You want 16 grit (looks like rocks glued on cardboard)

You will only need ONE piece. Cut it into 3 hunks.

Get some Sanding disc adhesive (NAPA) and a 10 to 15 amp right angle grinder.

This will level and prepair for glass a 3 ft wide 20 ft long deck in 15 minuets , as the working material is Silicone Carbide , not aluminum oxide.

When glassing use Vinelester resin and get paint roller with long nap , and purchase a 6 inch by 3/4 metal roller (Defender Industries).

1 1/2 oz matt is the easiest to work with the first time.

Come on down to our dock in FL some winter and I'll give a hand with techniques.

Have fun!!

FF

-- Edited by FF at 14:42, 2008-03-01

FF,
Man I hope to be down in Fl about Nov this year.* I am retiring after 22 years 5 months and 14 days of the military, (but whos counting). There is still so much to do on the boat I have checklist to spell out checklist. I would be happy to but you a beer in Fla when I get there. I actually have some experiance with fiberglass, my dad built a KR-1 airplane back when I was in high school and I did more epoxy and fiberglass sanding than any man should, just dont want to do it if I dont have to.* It is the standard TT construction; FG bottom, marine plywood, FG top, but it all seems to be sound and tight. If I dont have to lay down another layer of FG I would be happy to skip it.*
Marin,
It is always advisable to seek the wisdom of folks who walked the path you are going down, so if your dock mate has some advise I would be glad to hear it, and I wouldnt say I was very far along, just far enough to wonder what the hell I was thinking, really I didnt have any choice; like I said some of the teak decking was less than 3/16 or so, and it was wet under some of it. It really sucks though, would love to keep the teak.* I only have about 1/3 of it removed and am worried about what I will find on the bow. It all seems loose, so it might get ugly up there; but for what I paid for the boat I expected to get an @$$ beating on getting her ready to go.
Kevin

Kevin---

Rather than rephrase the answer my friend gave me regarding my question to him about replacing a teak deck with fiberglass I'll simply attach his reply. Perhaps you'll find it helpful.

"Marin, regarding removal of a teak deck and non-skidding over the ply-core
fiberglass deck: I would have misgivings about anything short of some glass
laminate over the top of all the holes. If water gets into that plywood
core, it will rot and when the plywood goes, the deck will have no
structural strength left. Now the job the fellow did down the dock from us,
in my opinion, was guilty of major over-kill unless there were structural
considerations I don't know about. I don't know of any patching materials
that I know will survive out in the elements to provide a reliable seal in
all those screw holes. I know a good layer of glass will provide the
adhesion and the seal to do the job. I would think one good layer of mat or
comparable would be sufficient. The guy down the dock may have used 3 layers
of glass."

No extra glassing would be required IF the plugging of each and every old screw hole was perfect.

But then I would still either add no skid (as previously described with cotton bug screen) or Treadmaster or similar sheet no skid , bedded in epoxy.

Watertight is the goal , so remember each and every remaining deck screw ,hand rail base , winch base , diesel or water deck fill etc , will need new goop under to maintain the water tight seals.

FF

Kevin---

Don't know if this will be helpful, but.....

Yesterday the yard put our boat back in the water and after running around in the bay for a bit to see how the props felt and adjust the new*packing gland to the right temperature we returned to our slip. The fellow on our dock that I mentioned who has replaced the teak decking on his Island Gypsy with fiberglass was working on his boat, so I talked to him a moment.

After removing the teak he covered the factory fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass subdeck with three layers of cloth and in some places four. He said that the teak planking does add a degree of stiffness and strength to a deck and the multiple layers of fiberglass he used put this strength back. He also said that the number of layers a person chooses to use will depend on the strength and condition of their boat's subdeck--- he wasn't saying that three or four layers was what should always be used.

I had thought he'd already applied his non-skid surface but he hasn't. He's going to do that this summer, and he said he's going to use Interlux two-part topsides paint with Interlux's non-skid material added to the paint. He said it can be done with their one-part paint but he prefers the durability of the two-part paint.

He also said that what he did was a monumental job (his words) and had he known how much work it would entail he probably would not have done it. From what I could see, and based on my very limited knowledge of fiberglass work, he's done a terrific job of covering the deck and blending the new glass surface to the cabin and bulwark sides. From the feel of it under my feet, it is immensely strong. I don't know this fellow's background, or if he has done a lot of fiberglass work in the past. But his work looks like the factory did it.

-- Edited by Marin at 20:31, 2008-03-06

He said that the teak planking does add a degree of stiffness and strength to a deck and the multiple layers of fiberglass he used put this strength back.

Mostly the teak is making up a bit for the rot of the underlying ply.

We prefer a single layer of glass preferably with epoxy, epoxy grout and a layer of 1/2 or 3/4 foam of your choice. The glass is run up the house and on the railing a few inches to grab something.

Then a couple of layers of glass to be the new deck surface , and its MUCH stiffer than the old plywood ever was.

FF

Well after many hours of work I am finally finished, I painted the decks with Interlux Interdeck. Its really nice non skid, about like 220*grit sand paper, so its easy on the feet.
I dont think I will ever try this again. It looks good but I see a few of my mistakes and flaws. Pics of white paint dont show much detail, maybe I can get some out in the sun.

Pics please??? I think if someone would have given you an estimate on that job I think you would do it again!!!!...

Troy- Nice Job!** I have an 83 Island Gypsy 32 and have a question for you.* If I can remove the screws from my teak decks and treat the holes with epoxy and rebung. Do you think the sealant holding the teak down will continue to hold.* I suppose if it starts to come up I will be able to either remove it completely or reglue it down.** Any thoughts?* I like the look of my teak and hope to keep it.

FF wrote:

Marin said:He said that the teak planking does add a degree of stiffness and strength to a deck and the multiple layers of fiberglass he used put this strength back.

Mostly the teak is making up a bit for the rot of the underlying ply.

Click to expand...

Not a good idea to make assumptions about a specific situation you don't know anything about.* This particular boat had no rot or other problems with the subdeck.* But removing the teak allowed the deck to become more flexible than the owner was comfortable with so he added the multiple fiberglass layers to restore the stiffness (actually he made it stiffer) that went away when he removed the teak.

*

JohnP wrote:

Troy- Nice Job!** I have an 83 Island Gypsy 32 and have a question for you.* If I can remove the screws from my teak decks and treat the holes with epoxy and rebung. Do you think the sealant holding the teak down will continue to hold.* I suppose if it starts to come up I will be able to either remove it completely or reglue it down.** Any thoughts?* I like the look of my teak and hope to keep it.

Click to expand...

John
My boat is an 82, after looking at the glue that was holding the wood down when removed from the boat I really think you would be wasting your time. I would say 50% was in great shape and the other 50% came off without much effort. Over 25 years of time and weather had taken its toll on the decks!
Troy


*

I have rejuvenated or replaced dozens of aged teak decks in the last ten years. I have also removed 8 teak decks and replaced with painted non skid.
Many teak decks that were installed 20-40 years ago were screwed down with bedding compound. The planks were machined with a rabbit cut in one side to receive caulk. With this rabbit the planks were simply pushed tight to each other and screwed down. The disadvantages to this method are the screw holes and that when the deck wears thinner the caulk seam disappears. Newer decks were bedded with epoxy or A 5200 like material but still with screws and bungs.
The older caulk materials did the job for a while but eventually the caulk will start to break loose from the seams allowing water entry. Once the water is in the seams it can migrate through the dried bedding and enter the core through one or more of the multitude of screw holes. Water can also enter through the bungs as they start to fail. The apparent water leak can be many feet away from the point of entry.
Many folks install new teak decks with epoxy but still use screws with flat washers installed between the planks for both spacers and clamps.Once the epoxy has kicked, the screws are removed and the holes are sealed and the seams are caulked.
When we install a new deck we don't make any holes whatsoever in the sub deck. I don't want anything to do with the liability. We use spacers made of starboard to space the planks and 25lb bags of lead shot to hold planks down. If the deck is of straight laid planks we will build the deck in panels of 24" or narrower and hold the planks together with caulk. With sprung decking we usually install 2-3 planks at a time on site.
To achieve lateral pressure and alignment we use super glue to install guide blocks and blocks to wedge against. Once the epoxy has kicked we remove these blocks with a chisel and sandpaper.
On a deck that has enough thickness remaining but the caulk seams are shallow and the screws are starting to show we have small circular saws with a special shoe on them and a wider blade to remove the old caulk, saw the caulk seam deeper and clean up the side of the caulk seam. WE have right and left handed saws and we have some small router sleds for smaller areas. There are always some small areas that have to be completed by hand with knifes,chisels, and small side rabbit planes.
We use either Teak Decking Systems or Maritime Wood Products deck caulk. We have had very good luck with both of these products. We never use bond breaking tape on the bottom of the seam. This has never caused any problems for us. The planks are securely bonded with epoxy and the caulk is very flexible.
When a deck is too far gone to refurbish we will sometimes replace it with a painted on non skid. We remove all of the screws and usually saw across the planks every 1-2'. This will help the planks break loose. We use big slicks and an electric jack hammer with a 3" chisel with the bevel down to remove the old planks. Then we will grind the deck smooth and clean and fill all of the screw holes. It is important to fill the screw holes and seal any imperfections in the sub deck before rain or dew contaminates them. We are careful to plan for this and will remove and seal sections and seal as we go.Then we repair any damaged sections of the sub deck and apply a layer of 1 1/2" chopped strand mat. We then apply fairing compound over the mat and sand/fair the deck for primer. We use epoxy for all of this work for its superior secondary bonding characteristics.
Once the deck is faired we then proceed with the paint process. We use Awl Grip and their nonskid additive. We use a blend of the fine and the coarse. WE will paint the entire deck without nonskid and then tape off the areas we want to leave glossy and apply more paint with the non skid additive. We spray it when possible because it is easier to obtain perfect results. Many time spraying isn't an option and we must roll it on. You can achieve the same results by rolling but it does require skill. Spraying or rolling it is important to keep the nonskid well mixed throughout the application.
All in all there isn't anything too too hard about the process but the better your tools and skills the quicker it goes. It is a fair amount of work.
New decks cost around $90-135 a sq ft. Refurbishing is usually about 40-60% of that and replacing with painted nonskid is about 60-75%. Hopefully this will help someone, David
www.boatsmithfl.com

Sounds like this gent has a cure for some TT decks .

The question is what is done where most of the underlying core is rotten, and a single layer of 1 1/2 oz CSM is way to little stiffness?

Just more CSM? or a cored layup to attempt some stiffness.

Teak is heavy , CSM is heavy so mere thickness is OK , but adds no sound or heat insulation.

If the sub deck is cored and the core is deteriorated, the most common problem is water intrusion. This is frequently due to water entering around decking screwholes. The normal repair procedure is to remove the upper laminate skin in way of the damaged areas, replace the core, then relaminate the outer skin.
David

"replace the core, then relaminate the outer skin."


Good , this is probably the "best " way as it gets rid of the usual stench of rotting wood.

Our technique of cored deck over is probably cheaper and faster as well as stronger , but it still leaves the stench to dry out.

NO "best" for all situations.