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- Apr 15, 2008
- Messages
- 13,731
- Location
- California Delta
- Vessel Name
- FlyWright
- Vessel Make
- 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Do you have garden hose in your freshwater system?
Deck Shower - Need Advice
- Thread starter Fotoman
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Do you have garden hose in your freshwater system?
psneeld
Guru
I have MANY non-yachtie-standard items in my boat.
I had a big thing going with Peg Hall about my "non-standard" head configurations.....again with the wanker advice that it would hurt resale...etc..etc when "they" couldn't really find anything wrong with my install...But the great thing aout forums is I did pick up a few tidbits to improve the install.
So for me to use garden hose for part of a fresh water system may not be out of the question...just haven't started rebuilding that system on my boat...
I just finished up completely sheathing the bottom with epoxy/6 oz cloth...next is the barrier coat, redo the stuffing box and put the new shaft couplin, shaft and prop back on... 
Plus I wondering why your not all up in arms that he laid it in his bilge instead of properly running it and supporting it to some unrealistic ABYC standard too...
How else are you going to run garden hose in a boat? He would have to strap it every six inches.
ABYC standards are in place to insure that boats are functional and safe. If you choose not to follow them, your boat may still be functional and safe or it may not be. Most individuals do not have the expertise or experience to set up their own standards.
As we see here, others just don't give a crap. Run a hose and if water comes out, it's fine. Run a wire and if the light or pump woks, it's fine.
Some people join web forums for just that purpose, to start a "pissing match". It's their form of entertainment.
psneeld
Guru
GTFU...every time someone disagrees with you...you point out it's a "pissing match" because someone WITH the experience to know what's safe or doable or doesn't agree with you...
Just post and stop pointing fingers...most people don't care...
ABYC standards don't apply to commercial vessels so why are they the "safety" standard??? They are not...
Here was a grownups answer...
Originally Posted by CPseudonym
If better judgement on my part prevailed I'd stay out of this pissing match but as a professional plumber completely agree with Ron. If a garden hose worked for you and you are OK with it, to each his own. These are after all private boats.
At the same time I'll never condone non rated garden hose for the above mentioned use. My two cents, YMMV.
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JD
Guru
Water pressure
"Think about pressure from the water pump on the boat, it is miniscule compared to shore side water pressure so that is not an issue."
This statement is not correct. A Jabsco 44410-1000 Marine Water Pressure Flush Mount Regulator is set at 35 PSI. The Next Generation SHURflo® Aqua King™ Standard 3.0 has a shut off pressure of 55 PSI. The pressure of the Aqua King pumps are as follows from the smallest at 30 PSI for the JR. to the highest at 55 PSI for the one sited here with several at the 45 PDI range as well. Directly opposite to what was stated here.
Amazon.com: Jabsco 44410-1000 Marine Water Pressure Flush Mount Regulator (35-PSI, White): Sports & Outdoors
Aqua King™ Mini 1.0 Fresh Water Pump 12VDC - SHURflo
"Think about pressure from the water pump on the boat, it is miniscule compared to shore side water pressure so that is not an issue."
This statement is not correct. A Jabsco 44410-1000 Marine Water Pressure Flush Mount Regulator is set at 35 PSI. The Next Generation SHURflo® Aqua King™ Standard 3.0 has a shut off pressure of 55 PSI. The pressure of the Aqua King pumps are as follows from the smallest at 30 PSI for the JR. to the highest at 55 PSI for the one sited here with several at the 45 PDI range as well. Directly opposite to what was stated here.
Amazon.com: Jabsco 44410-1000 Marine Water Pressure Flush Mount Regulator (35-PSI, White): Sports & Outdoors
Aqua King™ Mini 1.0 Fresh Water Pump 12VDC - SHURflo
What can I say but the system worked on my boat for at least 20 yrs with absolutely no problem. ??
Used the Jabsco diaphram pump, the big one, forget the model number.
If one is not comfortable with the setup dont do it, I merely related my EXPERIENCE and nothing more.
To add more fuel to the "marine" fire, the boat came with a large SEARS accumulator tank, steel, not SS, abt 4 gallon capacity. Boat was built in 1981 and when I sold her it was 29 yrs old and that STEEL accumulator was still working just fine. Now the SS water heater, "marine grade" I had to replace. Just saying.
Used the Jabsco diaphram pump, the big one, forget the model number.
If one is not comfortable with the setup dont do it, I merely related my EXPERIENCE and nothing more.
To add more fuel to the "marine" fire, the boat came with a large SEARS accumulator tank, steel, not SS, abt 4 gallon capacity. Boat was built in 1981 and when I sold her it was 29 yrs old and that STEEL accumulator was still working just fine. Now the SS water heater, "marine grade" I had to replace. Just saying.
psneeld
Guru
And what do you think many city water pressures are?
My experience is they range from 50 to over a 100...at least at times during the day. Many Boaters/RVers have experienced plumbing problems when hooked to shore water because of the sometimes high pressures. Many boats have the pressure regulator built into the city water inlet along with a check valve...but not all...including my boat.
Many experienced cruisers/RVers always recommend a sediment filter and pressure regulator when hooking up in unfamiliar areas because of the unknowns.
GTFU...every time someone disagrees with you...you point out it's a "pissing match" because someone WITH the experience to know what's safe or doable or doesn't agree with you...
Just post and stop pointing fingers...most people don't care...
ABYC standards don't apply to commercial vessels so why are they the "safety" standard??? They are not...
Here was a grownups answer...
Originally Posted by CPseudonym
If better judgement on my part prevailed I'd stay out of this pissing match but as a professional plumber completely agree with Ron. If a garden hose worked for you and you are OK with it, to each his own. These are after all private boats.
At the same time I'll never condone non rated garden hose for the above mentioned use. My two cents, YMMV.
Dude - You are truly a "piece of work". The poster boy of why this forum should have an "ignore list" option.
I try to ignore your posts, I truly do, but sometimes I just manage to get dragged into them regardless. You are one ot those people who have nothing to say but feel compelled to say it anyway. You picked a fight with Peggie Hall, arguably the world's foremost authority on marine sanitation on recreational boats, implying that your setup was better than what's available from the established manufacturers. If I am in the company of Ms. Hall, or even close, I am truly honored.
Now, you presume to tell me how I should reply to posts.
Tell you what, big fella, until the day when you own your own web forum, you're going to have to read what others post, like it or not, or else just ignore the posts. Your other choice is to step away from the computer and try to find other ways to Mickey Mouse your boat with RV toilets and garden hose.
When I was working, I had standards and codes to go by. What to use and how to use it. Not following these codes would have put other people's lives in danger. The people who write these standards know more about the subject than you do and more than I do. There are good reasons to use certain materials and installation methods.
Anyhow - "Ramble On".
psneeld
Guru
Psneeld,
rwidman is a peice of work, not much work for sure.*
I suppose that I could waste time to locate the "several" times that he has taken issue with things that I have done on my boat. (Seems like all the time.) Note things that I have DONE, not speculate or the like , but what I have done and obviously worked. You know that stuff that one refers to as EXPERIENCE.
Actually, since he has taken such issue with you I now find it compelling to report the above as I did not want to get into the P___ing contest with him. His unnecessery criticism of your position was too much for me.
Speaking of placing someone on an Ignore list!
* I was going to say: Probably union made and hired without a drug screen, see another thread in one of the other forum lists but that would not have been very nice so I did not.
rwidman is a peice of work, not much work for sure.*
I suppose that I could waste time to locate the "several" times that he has taken issue with things that I have done on my boat. (Seems like all the time.) Note things that I have DONE, not speculate or the like , but what I have done and obviously worked. You know that stuff that one refers to as EXPERIENCE.
Actually, since he has taken such issue with you I now find it compelling to report the above as I did not want to get into the P___ing contest with him. His unnecessery criticism of your position was too much for me.
Speaking of placing someone on an Ignore list!
* I was going to say: Probably union made and hired without a drug screen, see another thread in one of the other forum lists but that would not have been very nice so I did not.
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
Charles, I have never read the specs on "marine grade" accumulator tanks but I have installed plenty of the steel ones you have had in your boat for 29 years. I see nothing wrong with the use of them. Assuming of course it was installed on the dry side of the hull
I 'suspect' the only difference in the marine water heater besides the SS tank would be not using wire nuts for the internal electrical connections. That notwithstanding, common residential unit would work fine but may not pass muster with the insurance surveyor.
Did you replace the water heater due to a tank leak or because it quit making hot water? If a leak that would most likely be poor workmanship from the manufacturer or material defect. If because it simply stopped making hot water the problem was most likely elements burned out or thermostat failure. Either of which should have been easily repairable if diagnosed correctly.
I hope I'm not coming across as a wise @__, if so that's not intentional. I fail to see the importance of standards that the boat manufacturers tend to ignore. Many reputable name brand boats use approved parts in unapproved ways, but since the part was "rated" the installation standard was not inspected nor adhered to. Sea cocks are a great example.
As always, YMMV
I 'suspect' the only difference in the marine water heater besides the SS tank would be not using wire nuts for the internal electrical connections. That notwithstanding, common residential unit would work fine but may not pass muster with the insurance surveyor.
Did you replace the water heater due to a tank leak or because it quit making hot water? If a leak that would most likely be poor workmanship from the manufacturer or material defect. If because it simply stopped making hot water the problem was most likely elements burned out or thermostat failure. Either of which should have been easily repairable if diagnosed correctly.
I hope I'm not coming across as a wise @__, if so that's not intentional. I fail to see the importance of standards that the boat manufacturers tend to ignore. Many reputable name brand boats use approved parts in unapproved ways, but since the part was "rated" the installation standard was not inspected nor adhered to. Sea cocks are a great example.
As always, YMMV
psneeld
Guru
Charles, I have never read the specs on "marine grade" accumulator tanks but I have installed plenty of the steel ones you have had in your boat for 29 years. I see nothing wrong with the use of them. Assuming of course it was installed on the dry side of the hull
I 'suspect' the only difference in the marine water heater besides the SS tank would be not using wire nuts for the internal electrical connections. That notwithstanding, common residential unit would work fine but may not pass muster with the insurance surveyor.
Did you replace the water heater due to a tank leak or because it quit making hot water? If a leak that would most likely be poor workmanship from the manufacturer or material defect. If because it simply stopped making hot water the problem was most likely elements burned out or thermostat failure. Either of which should have been easily repairable if diagnosed correctly.
I hope I'm not coming across as a wise @__, if so that's not intentional. I fail to see the importance of standards that the boat manufacturers tend to ignore. Many reputable name brand boats use approved parts in unapproved ways, but since the part was "rated" the installation standard was not inspected nor adhered to. Sea cocks are a great example.
As always, YMMV
You aren't being a wisea** at all...in fact one of your posts I referred to as "a post by a grownup"....
and you are dead on with all the manufacturers and yards installing ball valves on thru hulls instead of real sea cocks...just spent today installing 4 new ones properly.... and am really glad that I filled in the other 5 holes where old ones came out but are no longer needed.
Believe me...where it counts I exceed ABYC or other standards by miles....
CPS,
As I have said I had the boat for 25 yrs and the hot water tank simply began leaking and was not worth fixing, I had cleaned it of calcium deposits on sev occasions and even changed an element once so when the leak occured I float tested it.
At the time of replacement it was abt 20 yrs old, I got the boat in 1985 at 4 yrs old.
By the way, on a previous boat, installed when I got the boat was a household water heater 120 volt only and that boat passed two surveys without issue. Had some other issues debated ad nausium on this and other boat lists as being sooooo important and in neither survey were they even mentioned must less required to be changed.
I have delt with surveyors on my own account and for many clients, I did a lot of maritime work in 42 yrs of law practice, and they ALL have idiosyncracies about what they pass and dont pass. I am talking "real boats" not our toys.
A nice field trip for a number of members of this list and sev other boating lists would be to visit some offshore oilfield support vessels and see how they are built. ALL must pass rigerious USCG inspections, many are ABS, DNV or other rating society classed. I specify this class of vessel as that is primarily the type with which I dealt. Plus one of the biggest builders is right down the bayou from me
As I have said I had the boat for 25 yrs and the hot water tank simply began leaking and was not worth fixing, I had cleaned it of calcium deposits on sev occasions and even changed an element once so when the leak occured I float tested it.
At the time of replacement it was abt 20 yrs old, I got the boat in 1985 at 4 yrs old.
By the way, on a previous boat, installed when I got the boat was a household water heater 120 volt only and that boat passed two surveys without issue. Had some other issues debated ad nausium on this and other boat lists as being sooooo important and in neither survey were they even mentioned must less required to be changed.
I have delt with surveyors on my own account and for many clients, I did a lot of maritime work in 42 yrs of law practice, and they ALL have idiosyncracies about what they pass and dont pass. I am talking "real boats" not our toys.
A nice field trip for a number of members of this list and sev other boating lists would be to visit some offshore oilfield support vessels and see how they are built. ALL must pass rigerious USCG inspections, many are ABS, DNV or other rating society classed. I specify this class of vessel as that is primarily the type with which I dealt. Plus one of the biggest builders is right down the bayou from me
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I tried to add to my post but dont know if it took , anyway, some should go on board some of the shrimp boats that I have seen and been on. I am sure that other type fishing boats would be about the same. All that I can say is that I would not want to go out on them much less spend days at sea aboard. Some guys here would have a heart attack!
psneeld
Guru
Charles seems like we are in good company...fount this poll when surfing....
View Poll Results: Do you adhere to ABYC Standards when working on your boat?
Yes, always 10.87%
Sometimes 67.39%
Never 4.35%
Don’t know, don’t care 13.04%
I will after my insurance co. denies a claim because I didn't 6.52%
View Poll Results: Do you adhere to ABYC Standards when working on your boat?
Yes, always 10.87%
Sometimes 67.39%
Never 4.35%
Don’t know, don’t care 13.04%
I will after my insurance co. denies a claim because I didn't 6.52%
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PSN,
good pole. I fall into the do it in a workmanlike manner, period.
ON the 'marine" stuff issue, this yr in my rv we had one of those drinking water hoses fail,( white with the braid inside and visible) a relatively new one in a campground and this is the SECOND one to fail, and I have only had the trailer 2 yrs. HMMMMMM My SEARS BEST never failed and never gave a bad taste to the water.
May have to go back to SEARS.
good pole. I fall into the do it in a workmanlike manner, period.
ON the 'marine" stuff issue, this yr in my rv we had one of those drinking water hoses fail,( white with the braid inside and visible) a relatively new one in a campground and this is the SECOND one to fail, and I have only had the trailer 2 yrs. HMMMMMM My SEARS BEST never failed and never gave a bad taste to the water.
May have to go back to SEARS.
JD
Guru
Why would anyone connect to shore water without a device that limits the pressure? They are less than $50. I think the one I sighted was $35. They have been around for 20+years or longer.
The comment I made had to do with the statement that the pressure from an on board pump was minuscule when compared to shore side water pressure. Using your figures of up to 100 PSI, pump pressure of 45-55 PSI is not minuscule. That is 50%. 50% is not minuscule unless one is talking to a politician about how much they are raising your taxes.
psneeld
Guru
Why would anyone connect to shore water without a device that limits the pressure? They are less than $50. I think the one I sighted was $35. They have been around for 20+years or longer.
The comment I made had to do with the statement that the pressure from an on board pump was minuscule when compared to shore side water pressure. Using your figures of up to 100 PSI, pump pressure of 45-55 PSI is not minuscule. That is 50%. 50% is not minuscule unless one is talking to a politician about how much they are raising your taxes.
Many boats and RVs come without them so newbies don't know any better...
50 psi versus 75-100???? Depends where the pressure is being applied...
psneeld
Guru
The USCG neither specifies hose type for fresh water systems (at least that I could find) and the fresh water system isn't even inspected on inspected vessels according to their checklist I sighted.
Even ABYC standards I don't think specify except that it be non-toxic, non-contaminating, taste-free, and FDA approved for drinking water...like our white dock hoses....
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
Marine HW heaters are not ALL SS inside.
Many of the popular ones have aluminum tanks . others are simple steel, glass lined.
Sometimes "marine" means zero, in terms of quality ,compared to home Cheapo.
Best part of a good genuine marine HW heater (besides the coil to co generate ) is the over temp breaker.
If the unit is operated empty of water , the button will simply pop, a push resets , instead of a new $17.00 heating element.
FF
Many of the popular ones have aluminum tanks . others are simple steel, glass lined.
Sometimes "marine" means zero, in terms of quality ,compared to home Cheapo.
Best part of a good genuine marine HW heater (besides the coil to co generate ) is the over temp breaker.
If the unit is operated empty of water , the button will simply pop, a push resets , instead of a new $17.00 heating element.
FF
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
Depending upon application aluminum sounds like a poor choice for a "tank" material. Over temp breaker sounds like it would save many bad starts to a nice vacation weekend though.
