Junk Boats

I live in a waterfront community. We have some moronic kids that somehow get possession of boats that are one step from the scrapyard. I assume the previous owners just want them gone and if some knucklehead will take them away they're OK with that.

The boats are registered (Maryland). Half the time they're under water. No use talking to the parents, they are generally as bad as the kids.

We've contacted DNR and get the standard bureaucratic run-around - fill out this form wait 30 days, fill out that form, etc, etc. We don't want to take possession of the boats through a title transfer, we want them gone.

Any ideas? Other than the obvious of cutting the line, pushing them into the river and calling the CG or DNR to report a hazard to navigation.

Some states have enacted laws about abandoned vessels when the USCG/ACOE kinda said "not us anymore" in many situations...not sure about where you live.

Once declared abandoned...my old assistance towing boss/owner got a ggrant to do the Cape May, NJ harbor cleanup of abandoned vessels. I think they did 5-6 boats that were at least partially sunk.

Contact local environmental groups about potential pollution issues and they can often get the ball rolling because of substantial background funding...

Our property management company is in contact with the lawyers, DNR and now, MDE. I've suggested that DHS be contacted and report a suspicious/abandoned boat near the power plant.

I figure the SWAT guys will show up in a few minutes.

Along the line Mr. psneeld is following I add the county health department. I believe either they or code enforcement lead the campaign against abandoned boats in two neighboring counties. California Delta was becoming a magnet for derelict boats until the counties most affected took over abatement.

Why wait?

Hmm..

Up my way you do not even have to wait for them to be abandoned:

Irondequoit Approves New Boat Regulations - YNN, Your News Now

Local shore front community had a law passed to ban people from anchoring under 300' from shore. This Saturday should be fun at the launch ramp closest to this spot.

What negative effect are these boats having on you Lurker?

Their boats not enough like yours?

You would'nt do well in lots of places here in Alaska.

When they start to smell though better start drilling holes. Perhaps you should moor next to a fisherman for awhile that likely has "bucket butt".

Sometimes I think we get a little too civilized.

manyboats said:

What negative effect are these boats having on you Lurker?

Their boats not enough like yours?

You would'nt do well in lots of places here in Alaska.

When they start to smell though better start drilling holes. Perhaps you should moor next to a fisherman for awhile that likely has "bucket butt".

Sometimes I think we get a little too civilized.

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85% under water and leaking fuel into the creek.

Here's the rest of the story - I'm the president of the homeowners association. People have been complaining about the 2 -3 boats tied up to shore in the "lagoon" as we call it. I asked "What's the problem?" Nobody could articulate. So the Board decided they could stay. Hey, we're a waterfront community and I love boats. So then the kids decide that they need to set up a camp on the shore by the boats. So we have piles of disassembled motors, busted up coolers, leaking fuel cans, tarps, miscellaneous trash scattered around, a broken down trailer dumped in the water at the shore and homeless drifter types spending the night. Did I mention this is private property?

I think I'd do just fine in Alaska, after global warming makes the place liveable.

Eric , you hit a subject thats oh so true to me. Funny how my life value can be based on the " valuation" of my home / vessel by "others". WTF.

FREEDOM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you move into a community with a homeowners association you are advised of same prior to closing, provided with a copy of all the association rules and are required to sign a document acknowledging receipt and understanding. And then ones asks, "WTF?"

WTF? If you don't want to live under association rules, don't move into a community that has those rules. Freedom? How about a little personal responsibility? It's not complicated.

Water just like land is governed by city, county, state regulations. So find out who what government agency regulates the area the boats are located. Then you can contact the agency and find out what they and/or you can do.

One of the advantages of being a live aboard is you can move to a different marina or a slip if you do not like the area/neighbors/cost. One of the reasons I like the commercial dock is they do not complain about the noise/dust/dirt when we are working on the boat, and the marina tend to give the commercial dock more lee way.

Anyway find out who governs/owns the water.

Personal responsibility?

Ya like what we see from politicos, devel pers, judes, and the like. Like the kinda of accountability we see from guys that set up the dikes in NO land.

Seriosly kids, realy, you by this stuff as the system continues to steal the equity you earned over the years? be that pensions, your homes, your jobs.

Realy thats freedom is it ? for the good of ???

I'm not sure how trying to get HAZMAT and trash out of my neighborhood turned into a rant on the ills of our society.

But, more power to 'ya, bro.

BL makes a very good point. It's no different than when they build an airport way out of town (like they did Seatac out here), but airports have a way of generating business. So businesses spring up and then the people who work there want to live near their work, and then developers see a chance to make a buck so they buy cheap land around the airport, put up suburbs and condos and whatnot and then the people who buy them move in and and start complaining bitterly about the noise. It's not like the airport moved there, the people did long after the airport was established.

If people are so ignorant and unobservant to notice an airport sitting down the road from the nice little house they want to buy, I think they pretty much deserve what they get and screw 'em.

Sounds like BL's situation is no different. Residential community with agreed-upon requirements and it's not like those requirements are a secret. If people want to live in that community they have to agree to abide by the requirements that were determined by the community. If they don't want to abide by them, they have all the freedom in the universe to buy a home somewhere else.

If it was me, I'd say haul the derelicts off, clean up the kids' mess, and send the parents the cleanup bill. If they refuse to pay put a lien on their property for the money.

I have zero patience with or tolerance of people who don't take responsibility for their own lives (including their kids). Makes no difference to me if they're in downtown London, Farmville, USA, or Nameless Cove, Alaska. Location is not an excuse for irresponsibility.

Accountablility, Responsibilty by who's definition ?

Are they messin up an area that the condo association actualy has power over ?

Need hazmat cause some one believes there is an issue or is there actual proof of such.

Morronic kids, registered vessels, I mean are we talking about 40 foot vessels for the kids or are we talking about a couple of tin boats with OB on the back for the kids ta play in.

I mean what realy are the ills of our society?

I aint looking at what you be looking at. But if its just a couple of open boats that need to be organized. If its just one of them moments in life that gives you a chance to teach some KIDS about boats? Teach some kids about respect for others then what the He dble L is the problem?

BL ya have not supplied enough details IMO leaving me to believe the thread is a rant about the ills of society.

Nothing more.

Jeez Louise, have I wandered into the Twilight Zone here? This isn't an ACLU case, it's a bunch of punks trashing the neighborhood.

Yes, we have authority over our private property.

The "kids" as I call them, they're in their late teens through early 20's, have been given multiple chances. A few years ago, over the objections of many, I even gave the ringleader of this crew a job at the community pool in an effort to give him a chance to have some focus and learn some responsibility. I believe that to this day it's the only job he's ever had. He screwed it up and got fired. 8th grade drop out, crack ho mother, deadbeat dad, all living on the dole at grandpa's house. Multiple run-in's with the law, including a staged drug deal armed robbery set-up.

His POS boat is sitting on the bottom at the entrance to our community, not tucked away in some back corner. A very attractive sight for potential home buyers visiting the neighborhood.

But, why am I even trying to justify this to you?

cutting the line, pushing them into the river and calling the CG or DNR to report a hazard to navigation.

Do I won't tell.
SD

I have seriously considered it. But, I am representing 458 families and I don't need a lawsuit. You know the drill, you can always find an ambulance chasing lawyer to file a nuisance suit looking for settlement money.

And besides, the POS is sitting in the mud.

Don't worry Lurker...I have it on good authority that OFB is off reading for the 33rd time The Unabomber's Secret Treatise......

I didn't mean you should post an add in the local newspaper.

Fires happen all the time.

If it is a HOA. Isn't there money for a new roof on the community building or for general cleanup.

Hire someone to cut it up and haul it away.
Who is gonna sue you. The kids? From the past posts it is a wonder they can read let alone file a law suit.

SD

psneeld said:

Don't worry Lurker...I have it on good authority that OFB is off reading for the 33rd time The Unabomber's Secret Treatise......

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OFB said:

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exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

skipperdude said:

I didn't mean you should post an add in the local newspaper.

Fires happen all the time.

If it is a HOA. Isn't there money for a new roof on the community building or for general cleanup.

Hire someone to cut it up and haul it away.
Who is gonna sue you. The kids? From the past posts it is a wonder they can read let alone file a law suit.

SD

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I didn't mean you should post an add in the local newspaper. - True

Hire someone to cut it up and haul it away. - We're working that through the lawyers (big sigh) right now.

Who is gonna sue you. - The crack ho mom and deadbeat dad. This is exactly the sort of thing they thrive on.

We're dealing with a nuisance lawsuit right now. Pure shakedown. But, a lawyer took it, filed the papers and now we have to defend it at community/insurance company expense. They even asked for mediation and asked for a cash settlement. I'm doing everything I can to force a trial. We'll beat their brains out in court and they know it. That's why they're eager to settle and walk away with some free money. But I won't be intimidated - at least not while I'm spending insurance company money and not my own.

But, on a more happy note - our boat ramp is under construction as we speak! 3 years of county and state permitting hassles to get here, but we persevered. I don't give up easily.

Marin - your comments about the airport are spot on. See that enormous powerplant across the creek in the photo? It's been there much longer than the community. We get complaints from residents about the noise all the time. Noise? From a gigantic, coal fired power plant? Who woulda' thunk it?

BaltimoreLurker said:

85% under water and leaking fuel into the creek.

Here's the rest of the story - I'm the president of the homeowners association. People have been complaining about the 2 -3 boats tied up to shore in the "lagoon" as we call it. I asked "What's the problem?" Nobody could articulate. So the Board decided they could stay. Hey, we're a waterfront community and I love boats. So then the kids decide that they need to set up a camp on the shore by the boats. So we have piles of disassembled motors, busted up coolers, leaking fuel cans, tarps, miscellaneous trash scattered around, a broken down trailer dumped in the water at the shore and homeless drifter types spending the night. Did I mention this is private property?

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I'm with you on the HOA and restrictive covenants. It's pretty much the only way your life's largest investment (your home) won't end up with a junk yard or rooming house next door.

If these people are making a mess on private property, you can exclude them from the property. If it's HOA property and they have a "right" to use it because they live in the community, you can impose rules of conduct and exclude them if they break the rules just like you might if there's a pool and they break the rules at the pool.

"Junk" boats are another issue because the HOA cannot lay claim to the water in most cases. You'll have to either deal with the owners or the government.

You may be able to find a clause in your covenents that prohibits anyone from being a "nuisance" and attack the problem that way.

I'm sure your Association has an attorney so consult with him or her on the matter. You'll get better legal advice there than from a boating forum.

BTW: Whatever you do, don't cut the boats loose or anything similar. You will be putting the Association in a position to be sued. John Doe might get away with it, but the Association won't.

John Doe might get away with it,

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Send me a plane ticket and pay my expenses. I'll change my name to John.

psneeld said:

exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

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Ya and this thread ia all about trawlers aint it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unbelievable.

I'm not sure about what the debate is here. Lurker states the reasonable opinions and standards of a community just as do of the PNW membership equally. The vastly different tidal coastline in relation to the total square area of the individual State (not to mention the population density) would surely be the drivers behind the American "live and let live" limitations. Park those boats in Boston, Cape Cod, the Hamptons, Newport or even Sarasota or St. Augustine, FL and see how long it takes to move them out. I don't think they'd last long in Baltimore Inner Harbor either. More boats, more people, more complaints, more laws. Combine that with less space and less tolerance and you've got less freedom. (Wasn't it Davey Crocket that said that while keel-boating on the Mississippi)?

Lurker--- I assume that's a coal fired plant across the way from the conveyors going all over the place.

It sounds like your HOA has a good case but one that will take its sweet time moving through the system. This might be one of those rare times when a big-ass hurricane could be a blessing. Move all that crap out of there for you. Or deposit it in people's yard where it then becomes "debris" and can be hauled off to the dump.

Anyway, while I've never had to deal with what you're dealing with I certainly have sympathy for your position and can totally understand the frustration of being held hostage by assholes. I've always been a big fan of Chuck Darwin and I think his survival of the fittest thing is right on. The downside is that the unfit continue to live among us while they tread water waiting to evolve into nothingness so we have to put up with them. The silver lining is that the unfit do eventually go away.

Is that the Crane plant?

Marin said:

Lurker--- I assume that's a coal fired plant across the way from the conveyors going all over the place.

I've always been a big fan of Chuck Darwin and I think his survival of the fittest thing is right on. The downside is that the unfit continue to live among us while they tread water waiting to evolve into nothingness so we have to put up with them. The silver lining is that the unfit do eventually go away.

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Yup, coal fired. Barges bring coal in nearly every day. Maybe every day, but I don't see them because the plant is on the opposite side of the peninsula from my house. I walk the hound on the boardwalk every morning and do occasionally get to see the tugs moving the barges around. Another cool feature is that across the Patapsco is the Sparrows Point steel plant. If I'm lucky when I'm out with the dog in the pre-dawn I see the horizion light up when they do a pour of the molten steel. Very impressive. It's a fireworks display from a few miles away - I can only imagine how awesome that is up close.

The problem with the lowlifes and Darwin is that the lowlifes have a tendency to reproduce at an alarming rate.