Deck Shower - Need Advice

I want to add a deck shower so I'll be able to rinse off on the swim platform (cold water only). My idea is to install a tee in the water line that currently feeds the main water pump (for the kitchen and bathroom) and run another line with it's own pump for the deck shower (my water tank is located aft, below the cockpit).

So my question is this, will it create a problem to have two pumps hooked on the same line from the water tank? Would check valves be needed before each pump?

My other solution is to tap into the actual lines (and therefore use the main pump) and run a new line all the way aft for the deck shower (about 20 feet). But I'm thinking it's a bit far and the pressure might not be so good.

What do you think?

Either will work. However T off the line and use the one pump is cheaper and easier. The psi on fluids is the same no matter the distance as water does not compress.

You might consider using a Hydrant style for the outside valve , rather than a simple hose bib.

Depends on weather the system will still be pressurized in cold (overnight freezing) weather.

FF

Phil Fill said:

Either will work. However T off the line and use the one pump is cheaper and easier. The psi on fluids is the same no matter the distance as water does not compress.

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That's true only for static pressure (no flow). Measure at the end of a long run of hose or pipe with the rater running (at that location) and the pressure will be less because of the resistance of the hose or pipe.

For the OP: I would just use the existing pump with a "T" (and a valve). That's how mine is set up. It's shorter, perhaps 15 feet and works fine.

My advice - If you're going to all the trouble, make it a hot and cold shower. We use ours rather than the one in the head whenever possible (no one is around) because cleanup is so much easier.

rwidman said:

My advice - If you're going to all the trouble, make it a hot and cold shower. We use ours rather than the one in the head whenever possible (no one is around) because cleanup is so much easier.

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Absolutely! And there's so much more room. We shower in the cockpit even up in SE Alaska. We had another shower in the head, but removed it to make the plumbing simpler, as it got no use after the first few times.

We have a sink on the back deck with a long hose faucet that we use to rinse/shower. We also have on in the front shower that is long enough to rinse off the anchor chain.

So do you shower in the nude or with cloths on?

There is an existing spigot on the transom of my boat and it is teed into the cold water line under the sink in the aft head. works fine.

Phil Fill said:

We have a sink on the back deck with a long hose faucet that we use to rinse/shower. We also have on in the front shower that is long enough to rinse off the anchor chain.

So do you shower in the nude or with cloths on?

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We shower in the nude. If we're around other people (a city dock with no showers, for example), we use the shower in the head. Anchored away from folks, we use the cockpit shower.

I keep my socks on

meridian said:

I keep my socks on

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On what?

Americans can be justifiably proud of fellow boaters so attracted to Alaskan nude cock-pit showering, using an existing spigot, they removed the inside shower. Living in temperate climes,I`m in awe.
Reminds me of Winston Churchill, British PM, during the Battle of Britain, being informed by a nervous hesitant Secretary that a young male staffer had been arrested at 2am the previous wintery night found "cavorting" nude with a sailor in the bushes in Hyde Park. Churchill asked "Was it not extremely cold and snowing heavily all last night"? That confirmed,Churchill is said to have remarked "Makes you proud to be British".
BruceK

When we were moored on Lake Union the boats where so close/squeezed together, you got to know your neighbors really really well. Our galley windows was directly opposite our neighbor with about 3 ft in between. Also our marina/dock was a party dock and many parties would spill over on to our slip/dock. Many morning we would find young scantly clad young people asleep passed out on our boat. In the summer most wore very little or nothing. We would just cover them up and go about our business.


I got my grandson, 16, a job at the Blue Water Bristol, a well know meet/meat/pick up place at the end of the dock, which lasted about 2 days when I found/noticed the female where taking to much of an interest in him. Quickly got him a job at a family pizza restaurant before my daughter found out.

Those where the days. Now we are morred in dull old Everett that closes up by 7:00 ast the latest.

Bruce K - Sir Winston has so many great notable quotes.

Fotoman - Assuming you T off the existing line, which I'd recommend, for the 20' run install one size larger piping than used elsewhere in the boat and the extra "length" will be no problem.

I'd also recommend puting a valve close to the T so you could isolate the line and drain if needed.

I put a "T" in the freshwater line and ran simple gargen hose through the bilge to the cockpit and installed a standard hose bib. Short peice of garden hose and a pistol nozzle and was in business.
CCC

Charles, do you have a shut-off upstream from the garden hose? How about a check valve immediately downstream from the T? I'd be concerned about two things:

1. The garden hose bursting under constant pressure causing the loss of all freshwater. I don't trust garden hoses. Reinforced potable water hose is cheap and readily available here.

2. The taste and contamination effect on having garden hose water backing up into the freshwater system.

My freshwater washdown spigot is plumbed with reinforced freshwater hose. I rarely use it since I have raw water washdowns and I primarily boat in fresh water, but when I do use it, it never leave a charged hose connected after I'm done for any period of time to prevent its water from making its way into my freshwater system. I could install an anti-siphon attachment, but they spit water onto the decks every time you turn off the water. I just close the spigot and release any pressure in the hose.

FlyWright,
As I have said often, I had the boat for 25 yrs.
LIved onboard for 5 yrs. Connected to shore water with a high quality hose from SEARS, SEARS BEST, for drinking water supply on board, never a bad taste from the hose. My experience.
About the hose breaking, not likely, never happened with the SEARS hose and it was in the sun all the time. Of course when I left the boat the spigot was turned OFF.

Think about pressure from the water pump on the boat, it is miniscule compared to shore side water pressure so that is not an issue.

In the engine room, where the fresh water pump was located, I actually had two "T" 's in the line, one for a short hose and nozzle for use in the eng room and then the one leading to the cockpit, again standard garden hose fare, with the twist valves.

Never a problem, again YMMV, it worked for me.

I forgot, for many years, I had another T in the line leading to the bow wash down hose bib, another one plumbed with garden hose. I used FRESH WATER TO WASH THE ANCHOR, why you ask, I had a 300 plus gallon capacity! When we started the 5 yr Great Circle Cruise I did install a raw water pump for this, the thru hull for it , I had installed a number of yrs before but just never got around to the pump.

Thanks for clarifying that for me, Charles. I don't have a city water hookup in my boat, so that wasn't even on my radar. It makes sense that the pressure from the city water would be much greater than the system pressure.

charles said:

FlyWright,
As I have said often, I had the boat for 25 yrs.
LIved onboard for 5 yrs. Connected to shore water with a high quality hose from SEARS, SEARS BEST, for drinking water supply on board, never a bad taste from the hose. My experience.
About the hose breaking, not likely, never happened with the SEARS hose and it was in the sun all the time. Of course when I left the boat the spigot was turned OFF.

Think about pressure from the water pump on the boat, it is miniscule compared to shore side water pressure so that is not an issue.

In the engine room, where the fresh water pump was located, I actually had two "T" 's in the line, one for a short hose and nozzle for use in the eng room and then the one leading to the cockpit, again standard garden hose fare, with the twist valves.

Never a problem, again YMMV, it worked for me.

I forgot, for many years, I had another T in the line leading to the bow wash down hose bib, another one plumbed with garden hose. I used FRESH WATER TO WASH THE ANCHOR, why you ask, I had a 300 plus gallon capacity! When we started the 5 yr Great Circle Cruise I did install a raw water pump for this, the thru hull for it , I had installed a number of yrs before but just never got around to the pump.

Click to expand...

Regardless of how many years you have been boating, how many years you had the boat, and regardless of your personal experience, plumbing a boat with garden hose, even Sears's best garden hose, is just wrong. Would you plumb a house or business with garden hose?

Proper marine potable water tubing is readily available, inexpensive, easy to work with, and is designed and approved for this purpose.

You don't see boat manufacturers plumbing boats with garden hose. There's a reason for that.

Not EVERYTHING needs to ALWAYS be marine grade. If a Sears hose works, especially for something as simple as a deck shower, go for it. West Marine (and others I suppose) thrives on the idea that plenty of boaters fall prey to the notion that everything on a boat surely MUST be made only for a boat and it's simply not the case.

Some of us MUST find cheaper alternatives just to continue the lifestyle.

I'm just sayin'.

Tom-

Besides one's own safety, I think it boils down to insurance coverage in the event of a failure and saleability with non-standard system components. I'd a hate to suffer loss with denied insurance coverage because I found a hose that was $20 or $50 or $100 cheaper at Sears that failed and allowed high pressure city water flood the vessel.

And while I suppose there are surveyors who will not notice or overlook a non-standard installation such as this, there are other surveyors and buyers who will not, so it would need to be redone correctly anyway.

I'm not casting aspersions here, I'm just saying... Besides, the more I look at my own boat, the more I find from the PO's that just makes me shake my head. When I pulled my refrigerator out to access some lighting wires, I found that the wires to the fridge were connected with wire nuts!

I had a 110V outlet that sparked on me as I unplugged my laptop. I noticed it was cracked and immediately replaced it with a new GFI. When I opened the box, I found the PO had secured the metal box to the panel with finishing nails! He couldn't nail them all the way in because of the angle, so he bent them over and they were causing the outlet to short out! Arrrrgh!!

It seems that every project reveals the need for 1-2 more fixes. Ah the joys of owning a 35 year old boat!!

But on the bright side, Chris Foster met me at my marina today for an intro to the Delta. That 35 year old boat ran flawlessly through the whitecaps as we toured the Bedrooms and Mandeville Point. We shared stories of old boat ownership and smiled! Life is good!!

You make a point, but some surveyors are dopes. Does the ABYC require it? I suggest the tinned wire discussion as an example of the perception of required and actual requirements. A surveyor can point at the faulty Sears hose as the culprit, but if there is no standard for it, the insurance company may not have a case. However, insurance companies will try to find ANY way to deny coverage.

Moreover, can a hose failure off a fresh water system sink a boat? If it can, you may be right. If it can't, there is no reason not to use it. (double negative)

There is no need to just plain waste money if you don't have to.

get a grip guys....not everything on the water has to be done like it is written in some yachting mag or at some overpriced COMPLETE BS boatshow.

Commercial boats hit the water every day and work long hours and are just as safe without using marine grade or ABYC standards,

The discussion is about a freakin FRESH water system hose...you can't sink yourself from a fresh water system hose unless you are hooked up dockside...and about 100 sinkings at the dock that I've salvaged were actually from fittings..not burst hoses.

Monday morning at 0100 I responded to a "sinking" 55 foot Carver...it was from a leaky marine grade city water connection and a couple professionally, installed "marine grade" failed bilge pumps...

GonzoF1 said:

Not EVERYTHING needs to ALWAYS be marine grade. If a Sears hose works, especially for something as simple as a deck shower, go for it. West Marine (and others I suppose) thrives on the idea that plenty of boaters fall prey to the notion that everything on a boat surely MUST be made only for a boat and it's simply not the case.

Some of us MUST find cheaper alternatives just to continue the lifestyle.

I'm just sayin'.

Tom-

Click to expand...

A garden hose is designed for, and approved for, .............. watering a garden. It also works well for washing cars, etc.

I suppose Romex is OK for wiring a boat, right? I suppose a car alternator or starter is fine for a gasoline powered boat, right?

PEX, polybutylene, copper pipe and tubing are all suitable for plumbing use in a boat. Not garden hose. Again, would anyone but an idiot plumb a house with garden hose?

A garden hose is fine for a washdown. It just has no business being installed inside the boat. A garden hose is not designed for continuous pressure and unless it's made "drinking water safe", it should not be part of a potable water system.

Anyone who owns his or her own boat and doesn't use it for commercial purposes can do whatever he or she pleases with it. If I saw a boat plumbed with garden hose, I would expect it to be wired with Romex and wirenuts.

If I were considering purchasing it. I would walk away or I would submit a low bid considering it would need a major inspection and a lot of reworking.

If it comes down to the cost of proper tubing vs, garden hose for plumbing, perhaps a less expensive hobby is in order.

It's not a slippery slope. Just because you can use a garden hose for this doesn't mean that EVERYTHING can be crossed over. That was why I said it that way. There are sometimes legit reasons for marine certified things like wiring. This is not one of them... At least I wouldn't suspect it. I've not seen it. (If someone wants to look it up to prove me wrong, I would appreciate it. Not worth my time, really.)

Come to think of it, I don't have a marine grade mattress, sofa, or pots and pans either. Also, my batteries are for a golf cart. You think I need to upgrade them?

GonzoF1 said:

It's not a slippery slope. Just because you can use a garden hose for this doesn't mean that EVERYTHING can be crossed over. That was why I said it that way. There are sometimes legit reasons for marine certified things like wiring. This is not one of them... At least I wouldn't suspect it. I've not seen it.

Come to think of it, I don't have a marine grade mattress, sofa, or pots and pans either. Also, my batteries are for a golf cart. You think I need to upgrade them?

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The difference is some of us KNOW what's crossing the line and OBVIOUSLY others don't....they rely on West Marine advisor for products and proceedures and always recommend "have an expert do it" when someone asks how to do something...and if it's not good enough for their boat...it's no good.

Might as well just read boating mags... I think forums are for better ways of doing stuff, or even just OK ways, altenative products and proceedures just as much as what's the tied and true way....otherwise read a marine book or your manual...how boring

We would hope boating forums are for passing on good advice and proceedures. Anyone here really think plumbing a boat with garden hose is good advice?

If better judgement on my part prevailed I'd stay out of this pissing match but as a professional plumber completely agree with Ron. If a garden hose worked for you and you are OK with it, to each his own. These are after all private boats.

At the same time I'll never condone non rated garden hose for the above mentioned use. My two cents, YMMV.

rwidman said:

We would hope boating forums are for passing on good advice and proceedures. Anyone here really think plumbing a boat with garden hose is good advice?

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good advice comes in many forms...what is the big deal about one run of hose that may be rated the same as some of the cheap marine wannabe vinyl stuff you are talking about?

Plus I wondering why your not all up in arms that he laid it in his bilge instead of properly running it and supporting it to some unrealistic ABYC standard too...