California delta on the upcoming Independence Day

Perla wished she attended Stockton's asparagus event and is jealous of Al. Now she really wants to go to the DELTA.


I'm ready for that. I'm thinking going from Vallejo to the Pittsburg or Antioch marinas the first day (dinner at restaurant), next day anchor out (dinner on boat) where "everyone" goes July 4 in the middle of the Delta, next day to the Rio Vista marina (dinner at restaurant), and then back to Vallejo.

What do you think of that plan? Can we coordinate and touch "bases"?

If you are going to go up the Delta for the 4th. Might as well take in the Hilton fireworks if they are still having them. Just need to get a early spot. We went up to Old Sacramento in 2009, that was a great show. Plenty of open dock as long as you got there a day or two early. You had plenty of restaurant to choose from including a really nice Joe's Crab Shack. Great fireworks too.
Rio Vista also offers a nice restaurant.
Sorry to break into your conversation. Hope that I have not intruded. Have a great 4th.

Mandeville 4th July

I plan on coming down to the cut for the fourth. Look me up. You might want to spend more than one night there, it's quite the show. Besides the fire works.

According to the Delta Chamber, the fireworks will be on the 3rd this year. We plan to be anchored out "somewhere" for several days, probably heading back to port on the fourth (assuming the fireworks really are the third). So we certainly hope to see you and Perla (and Scary).

July 3: Hilton's July Fireworks Extravaganza! This year's fireworks will be held on the Tuesday before July 4 at Mandeville.

from: California Delta Chambers and Visitor's Bureau - A Guide to the California Delta Waterways

what are you doing for memorial day weekend?

Pineapple Girl said:

what are you doing for memorial day weekend?

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in Alaskan waters on the Sea Princess

markpierce said:

in Alaskan waters on the Sea Princess

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sorry I think I knew that and forgot. HAVE FUN.

hope to see you in July... if not before...

CA Delta July Fireworks

Mark,

That's a great way to see alot of the Delta in a little time, but if you have more time, you might want to anchor out a bit and take a day or two of relaxation. As PG mentioned, Hilton Fireworks at Mandeville is Tuesday evening, July 3 this year. With your schedule, you'll have little time to stop and smell the sunscreen.

Do you have a dingy and want to anchor solo for privacy, but in proximity to friends so you can dingy between boats to socialize? Or do you want to raft up together (accepting less privacy) and walk from boat-to-boat along swimsteps? Both are fun and have their advantages, but without a dingy, raftups make it much easier to move from boat to boat.

Mandeville is a big place so if you're going to anchor solo, like Jello, there's always room for one more. If you're interested in rafting up, we can make sure there's a spot reserved for you whenever you arrive.

I'm hoping to spend most if not all of the week on the water since I have the whole week off work. I have to talk to the Admiral to see what her preferences are, but we have been invited to raft up with a group of friends from the marina who can get pretty 'animated' after a day of drinking in a raftup of 10-12 boats.

I want to be able to spend time with TFers, too, without having a huge 15 boat raftup to deal with. It's fun to be in the thick of it for the fireworks as there is the aerial show, and then there is also the show on the water, ifyaknowwhatimean!! DeltaSwizzler will be out there in the tules and I hope many other Bay/Delta TFers can make it. Scary, it would be great to join up and get to know you at Mandeville.

But then there's a great opportunity to head out to Mildred Island for a very relaxing anchor out or raftup in near-ideal conditions. I really enjoy spending some time there, exploring the side sloughs with dingys and kayaks.

FlyWright said:

Mark,

That's a great way to see alot of the Delta in a little time, but if you have more time, you might want to anchor out a bit and take a day or two of relaxation. As PG mentioned, Hilton Fireworks at Mandeville is Tuesday evening, July 3 this year. With your schedule, you'll have little time to stop and smell the sunscreen.

Do you have a dingy and want to anchor solo for privacy, but in proximity to friends so you can dingy between boats to socialize? Or do you want to raft up together (accepting less privacy) and walk from boat-to-boat along swimsteps? Both are fun and have their advantages, but without a dingy, raftups make it much easier to move from boat to boat.

Mandeville is a big place so if you're going to anchor solo, like Jello, there's always room for one more. If you're interested in rafting up, we can make sure there's a spot reserved for you whenever you arrive.

I'm hoping to spend most if not all of the week on the water since I have the whole week off work. I have to talk to the Admiral to see what her preferences are, but we have been invited to raft up with a group of friends from the marina who can get pretty 'animated' after a day of drinking in a raftup of 10-12 boats.

I want to be able to spend time with TFers, too, without having a huge 15 boat raftup to deal with. It's fun to be in the thick of it for the fireworks as there is the aerial show, and then there is also the show on the water, ifyaknowwhatimean!! DeltaSwizzler will be out there in the tules and I hope many other Bay/Delta TFers can make it. Scary, it would be great to join up and get to know you at Mandeville.

But then there's a great opportunity to head out to Mildred Island for a very relaxing anchor out or raftup in near-ideal conditions. I really enjoy spending some time there, exploring the side sloughs with dingys and kayaks.

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Al, will probably need to raft up as I an dinghyless.

FlyWright said:

do you want to raft up together (accepting less privacy) and walk from boat-to-boat along swimsteps? Both are fun and have their advantages, but without a dingy, raftups make it much easier to move from boat to boat.

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Just hope no one drops into the abyss as there is a gap in the Coot's swimstep --not "swimledge"(?) -- between the "INE" so to permit lowering of the ladder. The gap is at least as large as between between boats. Here swimstep is in the raised position.

No worries, Mark. If you take an end spot on a raft up, you'll have less traffic across your swimstep.

Mark--- What exactly constitutes the "Delta?" My hometown is Sausalito but we left there when I was a wee lad and moved to Hawaii. I've never been back to the Bay Area other than passing through except once in the late 80s for work when I flew all over it in a helicopter and once in 1998 to buy the GB we now own. Is it the delta of the Sacramento River? And what is there to see/do boating wise in the delta? Thanks.

Mark that looks like an EXCELLENT sobriety test to me.

Marin, I am not Mark but I'll take a stab at defining "the delta".

In this case there are two rivers, the Sacramento and the San Joaquin. They and their "delta" waterways meet up near Pittsburgh, CA / Suisun Bay. There is supposedly a thousand miles of waterway in that area. It used to be mostly marshes, with deeper sloughs running through. Back in the 1800s folks started building levees to form islands from the marsh.

"The first crude levees were built by hand in the early 1850s, but most of them held for no more than a season or two. In the 1870s, the clamshell dredge was developed. It could take solid bottom mud ("slickens") from the waterway bottoms and deposit it ashore to construct levees of some substance. The California Delta's reclamation pace soon quickened and by the 1930s it was considered complete. Over 550,000 acres on some 55 man-made islands had been brought to the plow." from http://www.californiadelta.org/history.htm

It would probably fall into the "boring ditch" category for you, compared to the PNW. We can anchor out in a slough or a "sunken island" (where the levee has broken and the water has reclaimed the farmland) and enjoy the peaceful surroundings... and we can hop in the dinghy and head over to a local bar for cheap eats and entertainment. There are also many towns and marinas to visit, some with history and charm. It is warm enough already to swim... Some of the levees are less than lovely, and there are more than a few abandoned vessels half sunk on the edges of some of the waterways... and nowhere near the variety of birds and animals of the PNW, thus my thought that it might not appeal to you. I like it though! And it is a nice change from the bay area with its limited destinations.

...Also, 45% of all surface water from California drains to the Pacific through the Delta and San Francisco Bay.

Jennifer-- Thanks much for your description of the Delta. I had forgotten all about the San Joaquin River. I attended a summer camp near Oakdale for a couple of years as a kid and we used to swim--- well, wade really--- our horses in that river.

So another question perhaps up Mark's alley as I get the impression he knows a lot about or is interested in birds. Looking at photos of the delta and and the area on Google Earth it would appear to be a great environments for all manner of birds. Is this true, or has development and industry discouraged them? I can still recall as a little kid walking the docks in Sausalito with my mom and seeing lots and lots of pelicans diving for fish and just sitting around. Is that still the case in that area?

Oh, one more question: I know what a lot of the challenges are in boating up here (and in Hawaii). What are they for that area? Mark has mentioned some pretty strong currents. What other things do you have to be aware of in boating the delta and the rivers?

Marin said:

So another question perhaps up Mark's alley as I get the impression he knows a lot about or is interested in birds. Looking at photos of the delta and and the area on Google Earth it would appear to be a great environments for all manner of birds. Is this true, or has development and industry discouraged them? I can still recall as a little kid walking the docks in Sausalito with my mom and seeing lots and lots of pelicans diving for fish and just sitting around. Is that still the case in that area?

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Have read there are over 200 varieties of birds: gulls, ducks, geese, eagles, heron, osprey, grebes, pelican, etcetera, etcetera, and even coots. Last weekend saw osprey, pelican, grebe, and gull.

There was even the last pair of mallard ducks still hanging around the marina who had laid nine eggs on an Islander 36 sailboat which, unfortunately, sailed away without the parents. (Story altered slightly to save the squeamish)

The SF estuarian waters are much less polluted compared to the 1960s. On the whole, wildlife is doing well here although we're very concerned of the diversion of fresh water to the south. Heavy industry largely consists of petroleum refineries. Most other heavy industry (like mills and smelters) has left.

Mark-- Up here people and communities have build tall nesting "trees" for the ospreys along some of our rivers like the Okanagan. We (Boeing) have had a pair of nesting ospreys on top of one our assembly buildings in Renton for several years. When we shoot a paint hangar rollout by the lake in the evening they will be fishing right off the plant. Have people put up any nesting poles for the ospreys in the delta to encourage them to breed in the area?

Marin, wildlife makes due on its own here. Here (Mare Island) osprey made a nest on a long-not-operated crane. Saw two immature ospreys last weekend sticking their heads out over the nest (was after this photo was taken).

Mark,

Have you and Perla considered coming into the Delta a day or two before the fireworks? If you have the time and inclination, it would give you much more time to explore and relax.

The "Secret Lagoon" pictured below fills with Snowy Egrets at sunset. I sat and watched as 50-100 filled the trees as the sun got lower and darkness fell upon the sleepy lagoon. (shhhhh...If you promise to keep it a secret, I'll even share with you my secret lagoon coordinates with you. But you've got to get there early so you can get the good spot before Pineapple Girl gets there.)

Al, I'm open to suggestion!

Marin said:

Oh, one more question: I know what a lot of the challenges are in boating up here (and in Hawaii). What are they for that area? Mark has mentioned some pretty strong currents. What other things do you have to be aware of in boating the delta and the rivers?

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One thing is shallow waters. One should watch the wake to see how one's doing. Note here in the lower Napa River which looks quite broad but has a narrow navigational channel. The sharp turn of the wake marks shallow water.



Here in central San Pablo Bay I'm safe from the shallows, but southern and northern sections of the bay are very shallow.

FlyWright said:

Mark,

Have you and Perla considered coming into the Delta a day or two before the fireworks? If you have the time and inclination, it would give you much more time to explore and relax.

The "Secret Lagoon" pictured below fills with Snowy Egrets at sunset. I sat and watched as 50-100 filled the trees as the sun got lower and darkness fell upon the sleepy lagoon. (shhhhh...If you promise to keep it a secret, I'll even share with you my secret lagoon coordinates with you. But you've got to get there early so you can get the good spot before Pineapple Girl gets there.)

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Vickie and I refer to the location as "Al and Meg's Lagoon".

Giggitoni said:

Vickie and I refer to the location as "Al and Meg's Lagoon".

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Ssssshhhhh. We'll need to move to PM motif.

Does anyone know if that bar on that island in the Delta every made it. They use to have some wild parties there and live music. Then the county started to mess with them and they were closed for a year. When I left Antioch in 2010 they were planning on reopening. Can't remember the name of the place. Paradise Isle or something like that.

Marin,

As someone who has lived/boated in both Sacramento and the PNW, I think it is difficult to compare the Delta with the Sound. It's one of those "not better, not worse, just different" situations. Many years ago I kept a sailboat in Stockton and felt like I left the world behind as soon as I was out of my slip. Many isolated & private anchorages with calm, warm water and levees covered in berry bushes. I'd dinghy over to the levee in the morning with a cup of coffee and eat breakfast as I picked my way down the shoreline. Maritime challenges were primarily groundings due to the shallow water and changing shoals. You get used to them and learn quickly how to "unground." There's a "Delta lifestyle" that is very relaxed and friendly, although there is also a very party-hearty crowd, but usually enough room to get away from them if you want to.

One is not "at sea" in the Delta even though weather/ tides & currents can be a challenge.

dvd

Maritime challenges were primarily groundings due to the shallow water and changing shoals.

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DVD--- Many years ago a high school friend and I made plans to take a 17' Grumman canoe down the Mississippi one summer from St. Louis where we were both in school to New Orleans where he had relatives. Our plan was to camp out on the islands in the river most of the time and call at towns periodically to replenish our supplies. Our primary navigation aid was a huge chartbook put out annually (I think) by the Army Corpe of Engineers that showed in very small scale (or is it large scale?) every detail of every section of the river, the islands, bars and channels and hazards. They put it out every x-amount of time because the river keeps changing.

Is there a similar regularly updated book of charts for the Sacramento and San Joaquin rivers and the delta?

markpierce said:

Note here in the lower Napa River which looks quite broad but has a narrow navigational channel. The sharp turn of the wake marks shallow water.

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That's really interesting, Mark. I did not know that a wake could be an aid in telling one where the shallow water on either side of a deeper channel lies. I wonder how many people who travel (and sometimes go aground) in the long channel at the north end of the Swinomish Channel up here know that trick. At high tide the water all looks the same but the channel itself is quite narrow with mud flats on each side.

Marin said:

Is there a similar regularly updated book of charts for the Sacramento and San Joaquin rivers and the delta?

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I don't recall anything like that, but it may exist. It seems like it would be very difficult to keep up because the shoaling would change after any significant rainfall or spring runoff. They, obviously, maintain the channels well to support commercial traffic, but out in the boonies, you were pretty much on your own. Perhaps someone with more current experience could comment...

dvd

DVD, you gave a great description of what it is like to boat on the Delta!

We whole heartedly agree that the shallow spots and snags are the biggest challenge. There are no detailed charts and (again as DVD said) they'd quickly be outdated as the bottom shifts in the heavy spring flow, or another derelict vessel sinks and becomes a new snag, etc. We slow down when we start to see single digits, so if we do run aground maybe we'll have a shot at getting unstuck. So far we've just had a few brushes with mud and no actual groundings. Knock on wood. Sunday am was fun as we had a 20 minute wait for a bridge opening. I was making a big loop back up the river to burn off some time (felt like a sailboat at the start line of a race) and I started seeing pretty low single digit depths on the right side of the river so I was heading back to the left for what the chart indicated should be deeper water... and the depth gauge stopped working. Great timing. I didn't run aground or even kick up any mud so luckily it worked out ok. Matt was down below showering and missed all the fun.

Papa Charlie, you must mean Lost Isle. The incident that brought increased scrutiny was a murder. They are still closed for renovations and I think the latest estimate to reopen is next year.

Giggitoni said:

Vickie and I refer to the location as "Al and Meg's Lagoon".

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Yeah you will definitely have to get there early to beat us. We spent another lovely night there Saturday. A large Chris Craft came along in the afternoon and anchored across the entrance for a few hours and several fishing boats came through, mostly late Saturday or early Sunday. We enjoyed swimming (floating) and watching a blue heron stalk up and down the bank through the tree branches and roots for at least an hour... We anchored farther from the bank this time and our anchor was set in the mud this time and not just weeds!

We don't mind rafting if we do happen to be there when someone else arrives!