psneeld
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I tow boats/barges a lot bigger than your lugger all the time. from 100 miles out we would use our 46 foot crew boat...no sweat.
single vs dual engines
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I tow boats/barges a lot bigger than your lugger all the time. from 100 miles out we would use our 46 foot crew boat...no sweat.
You guys deal with the big boys up there. The Boat us and Tow boat companies here don't have the investment. Now I could call an oil field tow boat but they don't have the membership deal like the Boat US or Sea Tow. I don't know what it would cost but I sure wouldn't want to pay it. It's all comfort. When I had a center console single engine I would go out as far as I felt comfortable (usually no more than 15 or 20 miles). With twins, which are on my hs vector I go out over 100 miles. Lugger with twins 6-71, I couldn't tell you because it hasn't left the dock since I bought it.
psneeld
Guru
You guys deal with the big boys up there. The Boat us and Tow boat companies here don't have the investment. Now I could call an oil field tow boat but they don't have the membership deal like the Boat US or Sea Tow. I don't know what it would cost but I sure wouldn't want to pay it. It's all comfort. When I had a center console single engine I would go out as far as I felt comfortable (usually no more than 15 or 20 miles). With twins, which are on my hs vector I go out over 100 miles. Lugger with twins 6-71, I couldn't tell you because it hasn't left the dock since I bought it.
Sea Tow pays up to $5000 or Boat US up to $3000 for someone to tow you in under their membership if they can't/won't..for 100 mile tow I'm sure someone would.
And as far as what you're comfortable with.. 15-20 miles.....doesn't mean taking a single farther is unsafe or a problem for others.
Well I guess you got it all figured out.Sea Tow pays up to $5000 or Boat US up to $3000 for someone to tow you in under their membership if they can't/won't..for 100 mile tow I'm sure someone would.
And as far as what you're comfortable with.. 15-20 miles.....doesn't mean taking a single farther is unsafe or a problem for others.
psneeld
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sunchaser
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For those of us who travel where tides and currents are high, tow rescue does not exist and cell phones are out of range, twins are nice to have. So are line cutters. Many proven/popular blue water trawlers today like Nordhavn, Northern Marine and Selene all are equipped with some type of get home engines. Krogens not so much until you get into the 52/58 sizes where twins are used. Dashew's website has a good series of articles on how his FPB 64s are now equipped with get homes that will propel the vessel at 8 knots.
On a side note, without electronic engines, Tier III engines are not possible hence no new trawlers could be built.
On a side note, without electronic engines, Tier III engines are not possible hence no new trawlers could be built.
Forkliftt
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Thats my argument for my old Lehman 135's. Boat designs may be driven by marketing- but engine designs are driven by GOVERNMENT MANDATES!! The only way around this is to keep these old cast iron dinosaurs in our engine rooms running
single or double engine
I hear you, but I just don't trust the electronic computer controls on my boat.
I'm just waiting for it to fail me. probably in the worst place.
I studied my boat and when it does fail me I know how to short the computer electrical interlock, disconnect the throttle and shifting gear linkage. So I'll get the boat home.
Sorry, I like the old day fully mechanical diesel engines
I hear you, but I just don't trust the electronic computer controls on my boat.
I'm just waiting for it to fail me. probably in the worst place.
I studied my boat and when it does fail me I know how to short the computer electrical interlock, disconnect the throttle and shifting gear linkage. So I'll get the boat home.
Sorry, I like the old day fully mechanical diesel engines
twiisted71
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Careful Jann comments like your last one will land you in the same sandbox I did a few pages back.
You may have figured out how to shift and throttle your engine but when we are talking about electronic engine management (atleast in this thread) its about engines whose actual running is controlled by computers, (injectors and timing not just throttle and shifting) but it is a wise thing to learn how to get around the fly-by-wire controls provided they are what craps out and not the engine's computer. Although I have been on one Carolina Classic that had electronic controls on mechanical Yanmars.
ralphyost
Senior Member
Always been an advocate of single engine boats, unless you have a LOT of extra money. A well maintained single engine boat will be far more economical than twins. THink about it - every oil change is double the cost with twins, two of everything to repair/replace, etc. Fuel consumption is higher, though its not twice, but it is higher.
There is a benefit in docking manueaverability but if you learn to run a boat properly, many of us do it well in a single.
Consider this -
With twin engine you have doubled your probability of having to deal with an engine maintenance or repair. It will double your chances of not being able to leave for a voyage because one of the engines needs help. You will never leave if one of these has a problem.
R,
There is a benefit in docking manueaverability but if you learn to run a boat properly, many of us do it well in a single.
Consider this -
With twin engine you have doubled your probability of having to deal with an engine maintenance or repair. It will double your chances of not being able to leave for a voyage because one of the engines needs help. You will never leave if one of these has a problem.
R,
Nomad Willy
Guru
ralphost wrote:
"With twin engine you have doubled your probability of having to deal with an engine maintenance or repair".
Actually I think it's more than that. Our twin engine boats suffer from less maintenance because we have the other engine to get us home. But the probability of getting home is much higher w a twin.
And about the cost (after initial) you guys just do'nt get it. Think in terms of maintaining 240hp or 100hp or whatever total hp. It's not the number of engines that cost money but the total power. With a lot of trawlers where their twin engined offerings cost twice as much simply because they (the twins) had twice as much power having little to do w their having two engines.
My dreamboat would have twin engines. It will burn almost exactly the same amount of fuel and cost me very close to the same amount to maintain. It will be considerably easier to maneuver in close quarters and it will be much much more likely to get me home. Seems a no brainer to me. But of course only in terms of boats w the same amount of total power as if one had a 240hp twin and converted it to a 240hp single or a 120hp single to a 120hp twin.
"With twin engine you have doubled your probability of having to deal with an engine maintenance or repair".
Actually I think it's more than that. Our twin engine boats suffer from less maintenance because we have the other engine to get us home. But the probability of getting home is much higher w a twin.
And about the cost (after initial) you guys just do'nt get it. Think in terms of maintaining 240hp or 100hp or whatever total hp. It's not the number of engines that cost money but the total power. With a lot of trawlers where their twin engined offerings cost twice as much simply because they (the twins) had twice as much power having little to do w their having two engines.
My dreamboat would have twin engines. It will burn almost exactly the same amount of fuel and cost me very close to the same amount to maintain. It will be considerably easier to maneuver in close quarters and it will be much much more likely to get me home. Seems a no brainer to me. But of course only in terms of boats w the same amount of total power as if one had a 240hp twin and converted it to a 240hp single or a 120hp single to a 120hp twin.
jeffnick
Guru
So if you have twins, you're able to change the oil in each in 1/2 the time, and filters and other maintenance items only cost half as muchfor twins as with a single?
If you guys spent half the time making your single reliable as you do justifying twins you wouldn't have to worry about getting home. :lol:
We go with a diesel because of it's long life and reliability, but we'd better get two just in case?
If you guys spent half the time making your single reliable as you do justifying twins you wouldn't have to worry about getting home. :lol:
We go with a diesel because of it's long life and reliability, but we'd better get two just in case?
And if you have left in your single engine boat and your one engine craps out up the Inside Passage somewhere, your chances of coming home under your own power are zip unless you can fix the problem yourself. The twin guy just keeps going. There's an upside and a downside to everything.
What I've noticed is that the most vehement defenders of single engine boats all have.... single engine boats. You can rationalize anything if it's yours.
I always get a kick out of the "twice as much oil" thing. Compared to overall cost of boating, oil is free. If a person bases their "how many engines?" decision on the cost of oil and filters they had best start thinking about a different pastime.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
Please observe Marin that I have a single and am in favor of twins. They are more trouble to maintain mostly because of more parts and generally twice as likely to have a repair issue.
jeffnick wrote
"So if you have twins, you're able to change the oil in each in 1/2 the time, and filters and other maintenance items only cost half as muchfor twins as with a single?" I think there will be a difference in cost and time but it will be FAR FAR closer to the same than twice as much. I'd put it in the negligible category. Also consider that an eight cylinder engine is twice as likely to suffer a piston failure but how often do you hear about that? It would take more time but almost as much time to pump 14 quarts out of one engine as 7 quarts out of two engines. I do'nt know how much a big head gasket would cost compared to two small ect ect but I'm convinced it would be about the same.
jeffnick wrote
"So if you have twins, you're able to change the oil in each in 1/2 the time, and filters and other maintenance items only cost half as muchfor twins as with a single?" I think there will be a difference in cost and time but it will be FAR FAR closer to the same than twice as much. I'd put it in the negligible category. Also consider that an eight cylinder engine is twice as likely to suffer a piston failure but how often do you hear about that? It would take more time but almost as much time to pump 14 quarts out of one engine as 7 quarts out of two engines. I do'nt know how much a big head gasket would cost compared to two small ect ect but I'm convinced it would be about the same.
Giggitoni
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Amen to that! Same with fuel. People wring their hands over the cost of fuel when purchasing a boat...twins burn twice as much as singles, etc. 200 to 300 hours worth of fuel per year is negligible compared to the total cost of properly maintaining a boat.
psneeld
Guru
I'm not so sure that applies to everyone here...maybe the average boater..
What if your more like 600 hrs per year because your a liveaboard and do the ICW every year....plus once a boat is made right and you do all your own work....that fuel budget is a much bigger chunk that to be ignored.
Sure I don't think twins double everything but it starts to add up for some people living on a more meager income/fixed income...
Sailor of Fortune
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How bout ya just "Run what ya Brung". Can we move on to a more meaningful topic now???? Who wants to talk about Rocnas?
Giggitoni
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Sounds good to me! Run over here and I'll buy the first round..
Great Laker
Senior Member
"A properly set up cruising boat that strays more than a days run from assistance certainly has a strong argument for twins or a substantial get home engine."
The boat I selected to buy only came with one engine. I decided if I ever run open waters beyond a day from assistance, I will seek another boat to run with. Problem solved for both boats.
The boat I selected to buy only came with one engine. I decided if I ever run open waters beyond a day from assistance, I will seek another boat to run with. Problem solved for both boats.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Six pages on something that really dos'nt make much difference is probably enough. I do'nt have have much trouble talking about anchors and we hav'nt got much else go'in so why not. Could be another six pages of something that dos'nt make much difference. But who has balls enough to start a Rocna thread?
Nomad Willy
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No offense Sailor of Fortune but I'm wondering why this happens. Walt was a good one to announce that a thread was over and conversation should cease. Why is it that lots of guys can't stand it when they think enough's been said and further posting should not happen. I remember Walt would get frustrated over this. Why do'nt they just stop looking at that thread themselves and move on. I think a thread should stop when nobody has anything to say and posts stop on that thread. But only until later (or much later) when there's more to say the thread should be started up again. Maybe it's a need for closure, to be done and finished w something. Perhaps it's the J/P personality thing.....J types like things to be decided. If there's no further comments I'll assume that's the case but just because one person thinks a thread is over is no reason for all the rest of us to follow along like ducklings.
jleonard
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I've pulled two boats home from horn island this year and they both had a single. I heard the same story twice. This is the first time this has happened and that ***** is a pos. Insert your favorite engine brand in the *****
